3 year old imac dies... do I have any recourse?

[airborne333]

I work on Macs daily and have a couple ideas for you. It sounds to meet like your hard drive has been failing for sometime and may be the only cause of your problems.

Try inserting your install DVD, holding C down and boot off the disk. Once this is loaded, try running Disk Utility and check your drive.

Let us know what happens.

 

[FrankHahn]

I work on Macs daily and have a couple ideas for you. It sounds to meet like your hard drive has been failing for sometime and may be the only cause of your problems.

Try inserting your install DVD, holding C down and boot off the disk. Once this is loaded, try running Disk Utility and check your drive.

Let us know what happens.

+1.

You can check your HDD by yourself using the Apple Hardware Test or let a genius do it at an Apple Store.

 

[DocV]

+1.

:
Originally Posted by airborne333
I work on Macs daily and have a couple ideas for you. It sounds to meet like your hard drive has been failing for sometime and may be the only cause of your problems.

Try inserting your install DVD, holding C down and boot off the disk. Once this is loaded, try running Disk Utility and check your drive.

Let us know what happens.

You can check your HDD by yourself using the Apple Hardware Test or let a genius do it at an Apple Store.

Tried booting from install DVD, but got the same results.

 

[McGiord]

Portables.

Macbooks, Airs and Macbook Pros.

All are MacBooks.
The iOS devices are also portables.

 

[SDColorado]

Tried booting from install DVD, but got the same results.

You mentioned that you removed your RAM and Reinstalled it. Assuming that you have 2 chips in there, have you tried installing just 1 and then the other? If so, are the results the same? Maybe also just trying one in various slots.

Also, do you have any independent Mac repair centers in your area? There is one near me called Mac Outlet. They may be able to do a little more extensive testing for you, and at a reduced labor rate.

 

[McGiord]

In any case, before sending the Mac to repair, if you have to recover your data/HDD:
- Boot in Target Disc Mode, holding the T key while booting, having the Mac connected to another working Mac with a FireWire Cable. This 'might not' work due to the problem with the logic board. If it works, you will see you iMac's HDD as an external HDD in the Host Mac.
- Remove the HDD, put in in an external case, and connect the HDD to another computer and back it up.

Be sure to find instructions on how to remove the HDD that applies to your particular iMac model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YsCTNVEYt8

 

[chas0001]

My mother had a similar problem. Her 2008 iMac stopped working 4 months out of the three year warranty (no display, usb ports not functioning but it made the bong noise). Tried everything to get it working but nothing worked.

Called Apple UK, as there are no Apple Stores near her, and they wanted £35 before they would even speak to her. She complained and managed to speak to somebody for free. They told her that it is the motherboard that has failed and she would need it to be replaced. This would cost about 900 euros in Spain! I read lots of places that the nvidia graphics cards in these iMacs were dodgy and eventually could cause the motherboard to fail. Apple of course denied there was any problem with the graphics cards. I told her she could buy a new computer for that so why waste her money.

I removed the hard drive from the iMac and she is now using it in my old Mac Pro. Not sure what to do with the iMac, apart from being a very large paper weight. Can't say I am at all impressed with the quality of Apple products.

 

[McGiord]

My mother had a similar problem. Her 2008 iMac stopped working 4 months out of the three year warranty (no display, usb ports not functioning but it made the bong noise). Tried everything to get it working but nothing worked.

Called Apple UK, as there are no Apple Stores near her, and they wanted £35 before they would even speak to her. She complained and managed to speak to somebody for free. They told her that it is the motherboard that has failed and she would need it to be replaced. This would cost about 900 euros in Spain! I read lots of places that the nvidia graphics cards in these iMacs were dodgy and eventually could cause the motherboard to fail. Apple of course denied there was any problem with the graphics cards. I told her she could buy a new computer for that so why waste her money.

I removed the hard drive from the iMac and she is now using it in my old Mac Pro. Not sure what to do with the iMac, apart from being a very large paper weight. Can't say I am at all impressed with the quality of Apple products.

I wonder if you could use it as a monitor?

There are some solutions out there for the newer models, but maybe neither one will work for a broken iMac:
http://www.screenrecycler.com/ScreenRecycler.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YBFKDH5FhQ
http://www.cultofmac.com/20176/using-imac-as-monitor-requires-very-specific-cable/

 

[thekev]

I agree with you. HDDs will eventually fail. I think there are factors that can contribute to accelerating that failure.

I have no hard data to support my claim, but I believe the iMac has a temperature problem.

I've had GPU failures, bulging capacitors, power supplies, logic boards and 4 HDDs (2 Seagates, 1 WD and 1 Hitachi) fail.

My Late 2009 iMac just experienced a HDD failure and I had to go through the joy of the custom HDD Fan Speed sensor.

On the flip side, ALL of my Apple portables still run, including my G4 iBook.

I had a ton of problems with my old powerbook G4. The charger broke, then display problems, then a possible failing logic board, at which point I was just ready for a new computer.

I work on Macs daily and have a couple ideas for you. It sounds to meet like your hard drive has been failing for sometime and may be the only cause of your problems.

Try inserting your install DVD, holding C down and boot off the disk. Once this is loaded, try running Disk Utility and check your drive.

Let us know what happens.

The OP mentioned earlier in the thread that he'd attempted to boot from the install dvd already. Having that fail is what worries me.

You mentioned that you removed your RAM and Reinstalled it. Assuming that you have 2 chips in there, have you tried installing just 1 and then the other? If so, are the results the same? Maybe also just trying one in various slots.

Also, do you have any independent Mac repair centers in your area? There is one near me called Mac Outlet. They may be able to do a little more extensive testing for you, and at a reduced labor rate.

He mentioned he put the original ram back in, as in whatever it came with. He seems to have done a fair job of ruling out the ram. More often bad ram just seems to give unstable results rather than a complete inability to boot the computer.

 

[SDColorado]

He mentioned he put the original ram back in, as in whatever it came with. He seems to have done a fair job of ruling out the ram. More often bad ram just seems to give unstable results rather than a complete inability to boot the computer.

I understood that he took it out, and put it back in. But what I was trying to determine was if he took the same two chips out, and simply put the same two back into the same slots.

The reason I asked, is I had a similar issue with a MacBook Pro computer several years ago. I would just keep booting into that grey kernel panic screen. It turns out one of the two chips was bad. It would boot fine with the one, but add the other and right to the kernel panic screen.

So, I just wanted to make sure that he at least tried them one at a time, and wasn't simply reintroducing the same (possible) problem by putting the same two right back where they came from.


I agree that bad RAM will just give unstable results, rather than a complete inability to boot the computer. But it in my case, I don't know if it was just too bad? Or if a failed chip occupying a slot will cause it to fail? All I know is that they replaced one, and it worked just fine ever since.

 

[Vudoo]

...
I agree that bad RAM will just give unstable results, rather than a complete inability to boot the computer. But it in my case, I don't know if it was just too bad? Or if a failed chip occupying a slot will cause it to fail? All I know is that they replaced one, and it worked just fine ever since.

My only bad experience with bad RAM on an Apple product was on a MacBook Pro where it would kernel panic. But working with Wintel PCs, I have experience where one bad RAM will give you just a blank screen and you can't boot at all.

 

[chas0001]

I wonder if you could use it as a monitor?

There are some solutions out there for the newer models, but maybe neither one will work for a broken iMac:
http://www.screenrecycler.com/ScreenRecycler.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YBFKDH5FhQ
http://www.cultofmac.com/20176/using-imac-as-monitor-requires-very-specific-cable/

Thanks for the info. I will need to look into it further but as this is the older 24" I doubt it will work. Most of the websites that can get an iMac to work as monitor refer to the later 27" models.

 

[thekev]

Same thing with the RAM which, for the record, I wasn't randomly swapping all sorts of parts. I simply reinstalled the original stock chips that came with the computer, again... to rule it out. I'd covered all the obvious, so I was reaching for straws before I took it in.

Quoting that portion to clear up the ram testing issue. Taken in context with what he mentioned before that, it sounds like the OP had upgraded the ram himself, then swapped the originals back in for testing now.

I agree that bad RAM will just give unstable results, rather than a complete inability to boot the computer. But it in my case, I don't know if it was just too bad? Or if a failed chip occupying a slot will cause it to fail? All I know is that they replaced one, and it worked just fine ever since.

I guess it depends. In any event he did indicate that he'd ruled this out. It sounds like it's "most likely" a logic board issue at this point, but it's not like they ran any real diagnostics on this. The cost of a logic board repair is kind of ridiculous. Replacement parts shouldn't be high markup items.

My only bad experience with bad RAM on an Apple product was on a MacBook Pro where it would kernel panic. But working with Wintel PCs, I have experience where one bad RAM will give you just a blank screen and you can't boot at all.

You know I've never seen one not boot at all due to ram, but that doesn't mean much of anything.

 

[SDColorado]

My only bad experience with bad RAM on an Apple product was on a MacBook Pro where it would kernel panic. But working with Wintel PCs, I have experience where one bad RAM will give you just a blank screen and you can't boot at all.

Yes. That was what I was talking about. I never actually tried in on a Wintel PC. From what I understand the timing is different between Mac RAM and Wintel. I have seen kits that specify they are Mac specific.

----------

Quoting that portion to clear up the ram testing issue. Taken in context with what he mentioned before that, it sounds like the OP had upgraded the ram himself, then swapped the originals back in for testing now.

You may well be right. When I read it, I interpreted it to mean that he simply reinstalled the chips to make sure that they were seated correctly, but that may have been a poor interpretation on my part. Might it still be worthwhile trying the RAM in different slots just to make sure that one of the slots isn't faulty? I don't know how common a problem that would be.

 

[robgendreau]

Sad story.

I've owned lots of iMacs and had good luck, but I've reached the end of the line with them. I can accept the failure of equipment, but the all-or-nothing nature of these machines has made it impossible for me to continue to buy them.

As many posters have noted, drives fail. The fact that it's now near impossible to replace hard drives makes iMacs a really poor investment for anyone who needs a serious computer. I can understand, given the design constraints, why LCD panels, logic board, etc can't be replaced, but no user replaceable hard drive?? (I realize that you can always DIY, but with the firmware changes re tempeture and fans and whatnot, it's gotten much more difficult even for intrepid hackers.)

 

[monokakata]

My son's iMac (same vintage and model as yours) began to have all sorts of strange problems, starting with FW and USB failures, then Superdrive failure, then failure to boot -- except FW came back long enough for him to attempt target drive mode, which sort of worked but not enough to transfer data . . . .

I wasn't there (he lives 500 miles away) but it did seem as though there was a disk problem at the base of it.

A couple of months ago I went down with a fresh HD, opened the iMac up, installed the fresh drive and put Lion on it and everything except the Superdrive began working perfectly. And I got his data off the old drive, also, though not without a lot of effort. Clearly the drive was very sick.

I don't have a good explanation as to why a fresh disk and fresh OS fixed what he and I had interpreted at hardware problems. I mean -- "OS-related" seems too vague, even though of course all those ports need drivers. But indeed maybe that was all it was.

So I'm wondering if there's any chance you can put your hands on a known-to-be-good drive and install it in the iMac with a fresh copy of whatever OS X version you're using, and see what happens? This is a very bad time to be buying a drive, though -- do know know anybody with a drive or two sitting in a drawer?

I understand that you tried a re-install from the Superdrive, and I agree with others that you've probably got a logic board problem, but based on what happened with my son's iMac I'd attempt a drive-swap as the last thing to try before making the expensive-repair decision. Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're comfortable with opening the iMac up, so your only issue will be finding a drive to experiment with.

I hope this doesn't sound like magical thinking. My son (and the people he talked to, though he never took the iMac to them) all thought there was a logic board problem, and so did I (plus the failing drive, which was obvious). I really didn't expect that fresh drive/fresh OS would fix everything, but I had a spare drive and the effort wasn't great, so I tried it. And it worked.

 

[DocV]

I appreciate all the replies, but it's not sounding too encouraging. As far as trying a new HD, could I just unplug the internal HD and try to boot without it, instead of having to go out and buy a new HD? In theory, if the HD was the prob, shouldn't I be able to boot from the install DVD wihout the HD connected?

And yes, for those who pointed it out, I realize it was only implied, but yes, I did upgrade my RAM when I first got my machince back in 2008, so I took the upgraded RAM out and reinstalled the original factory chips, just to rule out the RAM as being an issue. But no such luck. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[monokakata]

Somebody who understands EFI's role in any kind of boot will have to answer you. Based on what little I know, I don't think you'll get anywhere with no HD at all, but I could be wrong.

As I said, I'd hate to see you (or anybody) have to buy a new HD just now, which is why I suggested trying to borrow one.

[edit] I didn't answer your question about shouldn't you be able to boot from the DVD. Yes, you should. I only made my HD suggestion because of my (single) experience with an iMac like yours, where it would come up sometimes in target disk mode, sometimes not, was just generally weird about everything to the extent that the logic board seemed the culprit -- but it wasn't, and a new HD/OS fixed everything.

So all I'm suggesting is that there's one more thing to try, if you can. You could get lucky.

 

[TrollToddington]

Sad story.

I've owned lots of iMacs and had good luck, but I've reached the end of the line with them. I can accept the failure of equipment, but the all-or-nothing nature of these machines has made it impossible for me to continue to buy them.

As many posters have noted, drives fail. The fact that it's now near impossible to replace hard drives makes iMacs a really poor investment for anyone who needs a serious computer. I can understand, given the design constraints, why LCD panels, logic board, etc can't be replaced, but no user replaceable hard drive?? (I realize that you can always DIY, but with the firmware changes re tempeture and fans and whatnot, it's gotten much more difficult even for intrepid hackers.)

OP, I'm really sorry for going off topic but OMG! I was so eager to get an iMac back in January but it was only recently that I realized the design constraints of such, otherwise cool-looking, computer. Fortunately, there are a lot of options now, and with the release of Ivy Bridge the mobile computers will become even more appealing.

 

[McGiord]

DocV: about the RAM, remove all of them and test with only one module at the time. Be careful to use anti Electro static discharge measures. The memory modules are very sensitive to ESD.

Boot the Mac in verbose mode and see how the start up process is happening. Google that Mac OS X verbose mode and give it a try.

 

[DocV]

OK... some progress has been made. Thanks for the "launch in Verbose Mode" suggestion! ...At least now I can see what's goiing on.

So here's what happend; the box had been turned off for a little over a day and when I first went to start it up, I got the same repeated chime that occured at the Apple store. So I powered down and tried again. The second time I got the same chimeing; but on the third attempt, I was able to boot in Verbose Mode. I seemed to go through the startup process OK until it reached a certain point, where it began to get some errors, but managed to get through them, that is until it reached the point that it just stopped. The cursor [white block] is just sitting at the bottom of the screen not flashing or anything. I tired hitting return and esc, but nothing.

Here's the majority of what was on the screen when the failures/errors began to occur that I could see:

BSD root: disk02, major 14, minor 2
Extension "com.apple.driver.AppleHIDKeyboard" has no explicit kernel dependency; using version 6.0.
[HCIController][configurePM] power parent ready after 1 tries
Jettisoning kernal linker.
GFX0: family specific matching fails
Matching service count = 1
Matching service count = 2
Matching service count = 2
Matching service count = 2
Matching service count = 2
Matching service count = 2
Matching service count = 3
iMac8,1: stallinng for module
Jan 5 12:34:49 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Path monitoring failed on "/var/spool/postfix": No such file or directory
Matchinig service count = 1
AppleTyMCEDriver: robe(iMac8,1)
AppleTyMCEDriver: robe fails
NVDANV50HAL loaded and registered.
GFX0: family specific matching fails
AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement: initialization complete
Previous Shutdown Cause: 3
GFX0: family specific matching fails
GFX0: family specific matching fails
GFX0: family specific matching fails
Matchinig service count = 0
AppleYukon2: Marvell Yukon Gigabit Adapter 88E8055 Singleport Copper SA
AppleYukon2: RxRingSize <= 1024, TxRingSize 256, RX_MAX_LE 1024, TX_MAX_LE 768, ST_MAX_LE 3328
Jan 5 12:34:54 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Failed to count the number of files in "/var/spool/postfix/maildrop": No such file or directory
Jan 5 12:34:54 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Failed to count the number of files in "/var/spool/postfix/maildrop": No such file or directory
Jan 5 12:34:58 localhost DirectoryService[54]: Launched version 5.8.1 (v514.28)
yukon: Ethernet address 00:1f:5b:ed:d3:2d
AirPort_Brcm43xx: Ethernet address 00:1e:c2:c2:8b:b4
Jan 5 12:35:01 localhost /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow[45]: Login Window Application Started -- Threaded auth
Jan 5 12:35:02 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Failed to count the number of files in "/var/spool/postfix/maildrop": No such file or directory
Jan 5 12:35:02 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Failed to count the number of files in "/var/spool/postfix/maildrop": No such file or directory
Jan 5 12:35:02 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Failed to count the number of files in "/var/spool/postfix/maildrop": No such file or directory
Jan 5 12:35:02 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.postfix.master): Failed to count the number of files in "/var/spool/postfix/maildrop": No such file or directory
Jan 5 12:35:04 localhost mDNSResponder mDNSResponder-176.3 (Sep 30 2008 16:59:38)[44]: starting
AirPort: Link Down on en1
en1 802.11d country code set to 'US'.
en1 Supported channels (then it lists a sequence of assending numbers, not sure if that's improtant... if so, let me know and I'll provide them)
/drv/ HypApic.c:234 Host APIC phy 0xFEE00000 lin 0x5db0b000 ver 0x14
/drv/ HypVtd.c:3500 [vtdInit]
/drv/ HypVtd.c:3516 [vtdInit] VTD initialization disabled
/drv/ HypLowCache.c:173 Low cache initialized (6208 kB for 8 VMs on 4096 MB)
/drv/ HypSMBios.c:54 Failed to find SMBios entry point
/drv/ HypModule.c:162 Parallels IPI irq = 0 ipi = 0(0x0)
/drv/ HypModule.c:169 Parallels Hypervisor 5.0.9308.543312 loaded.
/prl_hid/ Parallels HID started.
com.parallels.kext.prlnet 5.0.9308.543312 has started.
Jan 5 12:35:10 (my machine name) ntpdate[125]: can' find host time.aple.com
Jan 5:12:35:10 (my machine name) ntpdate[125]: no servers can be used, exiting
com.parallels.kext.vnlc 5.0.9308.543312 has started.
Jan 5:12:35:10 (my machine name) airportd[87]: Error: SecKeychainItemCopyContent() failed -25293 (The user name or passphrase you entered is not correct.)
​

And that's where it stopped. Does this mean anything to anyone?

[Disclaimer: I had to type that out by hand, so if you see anything odd in the code that looks like a "typo" let me know and I'll double check it with what's on the screen. ]

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

You said it stopped - when this occurred, did it freeze on the current frame, "curtain down" on the screen with restart message, or just suddenly black out like the power cord was pulled?

 

[DocV]

You said it stopped - when this occurred, did it freeze on the current frame, "curtain down" on the screen with restart message, or just suddenly black out like the power cord was pulled?

No, the code is still on the screen... that's how I was able to transcribe it. The cursor returned and is sitting at the bottom of the screen, just a white block, not flashing or anything. Hitting return or esc does nothing.

 

[aross99]

I appreciate all the replies, but it's not sounding too encouraging. As far as trying a new HD, could I just unplug the internal HD and try to boot without it, instead of having to go out and buy a new HD? In theory, if the HD was the prob, shouldn't I be able to boot from the install DVD wihout the HD connected?

This sure seems like it is worth a try - but I am not sure you can easily get to the hard drive cable to pull it. I'm pretty sure it should boot from the DVD w/o a hard drive connected.

This would help isolate the issue and see if you can get past all the boot errors you are getting.

A while ago, I had a couple of the last model iMac G5 machines that developed logic board problems also. After going through all of the suggestions, including checking for power supply issues, bad capacitor issues, etc, I ended up sending it out to a third party on eBay who did logic board repair. For a couple of hundred bucks they repaired the issue.

I had similar luck with an aluminum Macbook that had water damage. I sent it away and for $300, they fixed the problem, and saved my daughters $1,200 laptop.

Just be careful sending off your computer if it has data on it that you are concerned about - as you obviously are. You should be able to pull the data off the drive with an external drive cable, but w/o another computer to work with, this is going to be tough.

I agree with the others here, that you may not have a logic board issue - it sounds like you are pretty far along in the boot process for that to be the real issue.

That said, the issues I had with the old iMac G5 were somewhat similar, in that it would boot sometimes, and hang other times, and it was determined to be a logic board issue...

If you HAVE to get a new computer, get one of the new Mac Mini's for $599 and put a $100 monitor on it. Use your keyboard and mouse from your iMac, and keep your existing software investment - especially in those Adobe products.

Look for a deal on refurbished ones in the Apple store and you could save even a bit more.

I know that doesn't help if you can't afford it, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper than $1,299 for a new iMac...

Boot the Mac in verbose mode and see how the start up process is happening. Google that Mac OS X verbose mode and give it a try.

You could also try safe mode. That is booting and holding down the SHIFT key. This may bypass loading that parallels kext. here is a description:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1564

Single user mode (hold down the S or CMD-S keys) is also worth a try. That would leave you at a prompt and not the finder though. You can type exit or logout to continue. it would be interesting to see if you can get there also.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1492

May be a long shot, but it gives us more data points to help troubleshoot...

 

[DocV]

I was able to boot in single-user mode and got the the command prompt but had no idea what to type. The article said to type "reboot" and that's what I did... the machine restarted and I got the same eventual decending curtain and kernel panic, multi-lingual, restart your mac messge.

So clearly something is still working. But what to do now?