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Michael Vick indicted on dog fighting charges.

Forget about the Falcons this year.

Dog fighting is acceptable in many countries.So I'm not going to put any value judgments on the guy.I still believe in America where a man is innocent until proven guilty.
 
Peace said:
I agree.I certainly wouldn't do it merely because I like animals.

I wasn't aware there were a set of "moral codes" written somewhere in the constitution though.
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Moral or not, dog fighting is illegal in all 50 U.S. states, and felony in all except in Idaho and Wyoming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting_in_the_United_States#Laws_in_US

I hope if found guilty, he gets the maximum jail time allowed. A $350,000 fine would be less than a slap on the wrist to some someone who makes the kind of money he does.

Lovely family:

"During the 2006 Gator Bowl on January 2, 2006, [Marcus] Vick once again courted controversy when he violently stomped on the leg of University of Louisville defensive end Elvis Dumervil with his foot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Vick#2005:_strong_playing.2C_more_incidents
 
I think the NFL and the Falcons are correct in the wait and see approach. I do not condone dog fighting, but wouldn't it be prudent to allow due process before rushing to judgement? I mean not too long ago the country was up in arms when three Duke lacrosse players were accused of raping a stripper at an off campus party and look at how that has panned out. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Michael Vick is a model citizen and that all the people he chooses to surround himself are upstanding citizens, but he will have his day in court.
What is intriguing is the quarterback situation should Vick be not available next season since the Falcons traded away Matt Schaub to the Texans.

Edit: iSaint, there are numerous countries where people are allowed to pit animals against each other to the death. While some such as you and me, find such acts appalling, there's no doubt that some of the things that we Americans find perfectly normal and acceptable are just as appalling to those from other countries.
 
Gymnut said:
I think the NFL and the Falcons are correct in the wait and see approach. I do not condone dog fighting, but wouldn't it be prudent to allow due process before rushing to judgement? I mean not too long ago the country was up in arms when three Duke lacrosse players were accused of raping a stripper at an off campus party and look at how that has panned out. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Michael Vick is a model citizen and that all the people he chooses to surround himself are upstanding citizens, but he will have his day in court.
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Agreed.


Lethal
 
Gymnut said:
Edit: iSaint, there are numerous countries where people are allowed to pit animals against each other to the death. While some such as yourself, find such acts appalling, there's no doubt that some of the things that we Americans find perfectly normal and acceptable are just as appalling to those from other countries.
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Who cares? Michael Vick is an American [allegedly] committing illegal--and by American standards immoral--acts within the U.S.

This is not an exercise in cultural relativism.
 
miloblithe said:
Who cares? Michael Vick is an American [allegedly] committing illegal--and by American standards immoral--acts within the U.S.

This is not an exercise in cultural relativism.
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Thank you for stating the obvious. Is there a moral code of conduct that you can refer us Americans to? I mean after all according to that Wikipedia article, dog fighting was once legal and sanctioned and promoted during the colonial periods through to the late 19th century in the U.S.
 
Gymnut said:
Thank you for stating the obvious. Is there a moral code of conduct that you can refer us Americans to? I mean after all according to that Wikipedia article, dog fighting was once legal and sanctioned and promoted during the colonial periods through to the late 19th century in the U.S.
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So was slavery. Times change.

Are you a big fan of rhetorical questions? No, there is no official U.S. moral code of conduct. I would think that, of all things, is obvious.
 
I'm not really following you here. The OP mentioned that he could not understand what kind of "man gets his kicks" watching two animals fight to the death. I simply mentioned that while I do not condone blood sport, it is a venue that is openly conducted in various countries around the world. Yes it is appalling but the value and place of animals is significantly different in other countries than it is here in the U.S. On the flipside, what we Americans do and what we perceive as normal and inalienable rights are met with the same shocking reaction in other countries. My intent was never to say that just because [insert country of your choice] allows bloodsport that we Americans should now tolerate and legalize it.

Your reply was "who cares" and while my intent was never for an "exercise in cultural relativism", this is afterall an OPEN forum.

Oh yeah, and my earlier query about a "moral code of conduct" was an attempt at sarcasm which no doubt failed to hit its mark.
 
Clearly, I need to get off my moral high horse again (I do find myself up here way too often these days). I'll blame it on being really sleepy, and head off to bed.
 
well, i don't like dog fighting, but i can't let that opinion get in the way of judging a guy before he's found guilty. maybe his relatives did run this without his knowledge or maybe he tried using them as a smokescreen. who knows....

we will never know the truth. sure, he might end up convicted guilty, but really, could they be building a case just against him? The one thing to watch for is if anyone with a grudge against him, who knew about this fighting, comes forward to nail him.

in the end, this is all bad news for the NFL. i'm sure they're not liking the bad press. BUT, they have to wonder what some people are going to do when they are given gabillions of dollars. vick's intentions may have been good helping out relatives, but it doesn't look like it worked out this time. too much time + too much money = can be a very, very bad thing

i'm wondering if atlanta will suspend him for now or wait to see what happens. i hope they stand up tall like the bears did with tank johnson. even though his tests came back ok, the bears still did not pursue him. that is a great example for the rest of the league to say, "Hey...don't even PUT yourself in a bad situation...even if it does turn out well." anyhoo, that is changing the angle of this thread a bit.

cheers,
keebler
 
Well, between this and the water bottle that didn't have pot, he is getting close Goodell's line of no return. If it turns out that he isn't guilty, but is "guilty", I am expecting the new NFL to drop a 6-8 game suspension. Dogfighting isn't as dangerous to the public as most other things, but Americans have a special place in their hearts for dogs and cats (see the repeated outcries over counties that use them for food) and this could be very bad publicity.

While a man should not be judged according to the law until after a fair trial, I think finding a man responsible for bad judgment can be made before. This is a case where the Vick Brothers tendency for bad things to happen around them is going to be tough to overcome - remember that with stars like Michael, most of their income is endorsement related rather than salary.
 
Guilty or not the NFL has a problem with star players finding their way into trouble.
 
I heard on a radio program that they tie up a female dog to a thing they have accurately named a "rape pole" and let the males have at it before a fight. :eek:
How f'd up can you get?
 
The torture and killing of animals is typically a precursor to violence against humans. While yes, Michael Vick aka Ookie (loved that) has yet to have his day in court so far it sounds like the evidence against him is pretty strong. There has to be a good reason that this case was turned over to the Feds and not prosecuted at the state level. Bad for Vick on that one, rule of thumb is that you serve at least 85% of a federal sentence.
 
Probably overcompensating for knowing he plays rugby all padded up like a girl.
 
I don't think he will get into much trouble with this. 5 year max and $250,00 grand? He'll get off with a big fine and probably probation. Now his real problem will be with the NFL. They take this stuff very seriously and I can see them suspending him for a year or so for this incident.

jon
 
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