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In the past, we've speculated that Apple's resistance to supporting Adobe's Flash on the iPhone and their efforts to add new features to HTML/CSS is, in part, to reduce their long term dependence on Flash.

Ajaxian points to an impressive demo by Charles Ying which shows off hardware accelerated 3D CSS Visual Effects that are now supported in Snow Leopard's Safari builds as well as the latest Webkit nightly builds. If you have either of these versions installed, you can view a live version yourself here. Otherwise, you can watch this video of the demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R6sb4NO25E

These new 3D effects have been proposed for standards inclusion. If successful, future browsers will also adopt these effects.

While these will help provide standards-based tools for accomplishing visual effects that have been the realm of Flash in the past, there has recently been a setback on efforts to standardize on a specific video playback format for HTML5. Video remains the most popular use for Flash on the web. Due to ongoing disagreements between Apple, Google and other web browser developers, the acceptance of a single video codec standard for HTML5 has been indefinitely delayed.
"After an inordinate amount of discussions, both in public and privately, on the situation regarding codecs for video and audio in HTML5, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that there is no suitable codec that all vendors are willing to implement and ship," Hickson wrote. "I have therefore removed the two subsections in the HTML5 spec in which codecs would have been required, and have instead left the matter undefined."
Apple, of course, has been pushing H.264 and opposes the Ogg Theora alternative due to the potential patent claims in the future. Mozilla and Opera have their own issues with cost and licensing issues with H.264 and prefer Ogg Theora. The inability to come to an agreement means that there will be no accepted standard format for HTML5. As a result, Flash will likely remain the dominant format for online video for the time being.

Article Link: 3D CSS Effects in Snow Leopard Safari, And More on Future of Video and Flash?
 

Morky

macrumors regular
Jul 8, 2002
185
138
NYC
MPEG group

The MPEG group needs to give their stuff away or have it rendered obsolete by Flash and Silverlight.
 
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Maximillian

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2008
290
0
In case anyone is wondering, the music is by Ratatat ('Track 01' off of '9 Beats'). And it f***ing rocks.
 
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Boneoh

macrumors 6502
Feb 27, 2009
318
1
So. Cal.
This is great. But the freakin' committee can't agree on a standard codec? WTF!

Best example of design by committee is a camel, they were trying for a horse!
 
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macUser2007

macrumors 65832
May 30, 2007
1,504
201
Flash Is A Must For The Iphone!

There are so many sites I can't view on my new 3G S, it's pathetic.

Apple really must implement Flash on the iPhone ASAP, or it will be the butt of jokes again, like with copy/paste.

Flash is A MUST, with over 95% adoption rate across platforms. It is the only HUGE weak spot left on the iPhone.

If I were the competition, I'd make ads showing Android (or WM) accessing fun FLASH sites and video, while the iPhone shows blank pages.
 
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g4jedi

macrumors newbie
Jan 19, 2003
9
0
San Diego
Sure...

"If successful, future browsers will also adopt these effects."
Don't hold your breath! IE will always be way behind on this sort of thing. Look at the simple text-shadow effect in CSS. Up until recently, it was only compatible with Safari and to this day is not supported by any IE.
 
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John.B

macrumors 601
Jan 15, 2008
4,158
671
Holocene Epoch
Apple, of course, has been pushing H.264 and opposes the Ogg Theora alternative due to the potential patent claims in the future.
The lack of hardware acceleration for Ogg Theora is the main issue. Apple has been pushing H.264 because its a standard that (unlike Flash) runs fast on Apple hardware and hardware by other manufacturers.

Flash is A MUST, with over 95% adoption rate across platforms. It is the only HUGE weak spot left on the iPhone.
No offense buddy, but get a clue.

Flash sucks on Linux and OS X. If Adobe wants Flash to really be the ubiquitous standard (and have the web world bow down to them in homage) they need to seriously improve performance on the non-Windows platforms. I can only imagine how bad it would drain the battery of the iPhone.

Personally, I'm glad that Flash isn't on my iPhone, it saves me from having to figure out how to run a Flash block plug-in on Mobile Safari like I have to for Safari and Firefox.
 
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str1f3

macrumors 68000
Aug 24, 2008
1,859
0
The MPEG group needs to give their stuff away or have it rendered obsolete by Flash and Silverlight.

It's not that simple. The MPEG group uses that money to pay for research and personnel. This isn't a company like Microsoft. It consists of industries, universities, and research institutions.

I would like to see them maintain or lower the current license rate. That being said, H.264 will move forward not matter what Mozilla or Opera says. There is too much hardware that supports it and Ogg Theora is not as good.

Silverlight will go nowhere and flash is losing its stranglehold as less websites are using it everyday.

I'm truly impressed with this. This is the future of the web.

There are so many sites I can't view on my new 3G S, it's pathetic.

Apple really must implement Flash on the iPhone ASAP, or it will be the butt of jokes again, like with copy/paste.

Flash is A MUST, with over 95% adoption rate across platforms. It is the only HUGE weak spot left on the iPhone.

If I were the competition, I'd make ads showing Android (or WM) accessing fun FLASH sites and video, while the iPhone shows blank pages.

The iPhone will never support Flash. They want to kill it off. It is the reason you see them pushing standards like http live streaming and CSS3


It looks nice in this demo, but I fail to see the general usefulness in a web-browser?

Why not go back to the command line? It's just as useful and quicker.
 
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PJR

macrumors newbie
Jul 13, 2009
1
0
Snow Stacks = ColorIris?

So this might be a really dumb comment, but are we looking at this from an application viewpoint, or a capability one?

Because as far as I can tell, this is an application called CoolIris that is already available and works quite well on Macs.

http://www.cooliris.com/

If it is a "new" application then Apple really ripped somebody off...
 
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str1f3

macrumors 68000
Aug 24, 2008
1,859
0
So this might be a really dumb comment, but are we looking at this from an application viewpoint, or a capability one?

Because as far as I can tell, this is an application called CoolIris that is already available and works quite well on Macs.

http://www.cooliris.com/

If it is a "new" application then Apple really ripped somebody off...

This isn't by Apple. This is what you can do with open standards.
 
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DavidLeblond

macrumors 68020
Jan 6, 2004
2,234
352
Raleigh, NC
So this might be a really dumb comment, but are we looking at this from an application viewpoint, or a capability one?

Because as far as I can tell, this is an application called CoolIris that is already available and works quite well on Macs.

http://www.cooliris.com/

If it is a "new" application then Apple really ripped somebody off...

The article isn't about how neat the video is, but that the video was done using CSS.
 
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markm49uk

macrumors regular
Mar 12, 2008
217
20
Kingston Upon Hull, UK
There are so many sites I can't view on my new 3G S, it's pathetic.

Apple really must implement Flash on the iPhone ASAP, or it will be the butt of jokes again, like with copy/paste.

Flash is A MUST, with over 95% adoption rate across platforms. It is the only HUGE weak spot left on the iPhone.

If I were the competition, I'd make ads showing Android (or WM) accessing fun FLASH sites and video, while the iPhone shows blank pages.

It will never happen - flash needs to die. Apple are making a concerted effort to make this so - what websites in particular are you missing ? I avoid flash sites but that might be just me.
 
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MacFly123

macrumors 68020
Dec 25, 2006
2,340
0
There are so many sites I can't view on my new 3G S, it's pathetic.

Apple really must implement Flash on the iPhone ASAP, or it will be the butt of jokes again, like with copy/paste.

Flash is A MUST, with over 95% adoption rate across platforms. It is the only HUGE weak spot left on the iPhone.

If I were the competition, I'd make ads showing Android (or WM) accessing fun FLASH sites and video, while the iPhone shows blank pages.

"If successful, future browsers will also adopt these effects."
Don't hold your breath! IE will always be way behind on this sort of thing. Look at the simple text-shadow effect in CSS. Up until recently, it was only compatible with Safari and to this day is not supported by any IE.

I call that par for the course. Large companies almost never come to a complete agreement - expecially when their objectives are different.

The lack of hardware acceleration for Ogg Theora is the main issue. Apple has been pushing H.264 because its a standard that (unlike Flash) runs fast on Apple hardware and hardware by other manufacturers.


No offense buddy, but get a clue.

Flash sucks on Linux and OS X. If Adobe wants Flash to really be the ubiquitous standard (and have the web world bow down to them in homage) they need to seriously improve performance on the non-Windows platforms. I can only imagine how bad it would drain the battery of the iPhone.

Personally, I'm glad that Flash isn't on my iPhone, it saves me from having to figure out how to run a Flash block plug-in on Mobile Safari like I have to for Safari and Firefox.

It is all a complex history and political corporate war that is going on. It isn't as simple as iPhone needs FLASH lol. FLASH sucks in all seriousness. Pretty much the only reason it is still around is because it got in with video online. All of these battles you see going on like Apple refusing to put it on the iPhone is all strategic to set things right and get it out of everything once and for all. I hope they succeed because I hate flash, but it is looking like a difficult, long drawn out battle.

P.S. I think IE will always suck as well. That is a whole other battle. But pushing for these standards helps force Microsoft to stop crippling the web as they have done for the last 10 years! :rolleyes: It is just their nature to try to lock in people to every aspect of their products/technologies at whatever the cost or expense to advancement instead of simply innovating and making products that people would actually CHOOSE versus being forced!

P.P.S. These new effects are pretty much exactly like CoolIris: http://www.cooliris.com/
 
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tekcor

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
64
62
Apple really must implement Flash on the iPhone ASAP, or it will be the butt of jokes again, like with copy/paste.

Flash is A MUST, with over 95% adoption rate across platforms. It is the only HUGE weak spot left on the iPhone.

Flash is an abomination. It started as an animation suite, which was pushed into gaming by it's users. So Macromedia made it more powerful for games. Adobe has purchased it and is using Flash as it's own development environment, but it's just not that good.

It's not optimized at all either. I was realizing that while browsing the web on my battery that all these damn Flash-based ads are killing my battery. Why does this stupid 468x60 ad need so much of my processing power!? It's because the Flash developers are completely inept at making Flash hardware-friendly.

I guarantee the day Adobe makes a good version of Flash, Apple will support it. Until then, no flash on the iPhone. I'd have it completely uninstalled on my laptop, if it wasn't necessary for so much of the media on the web.
 
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str1f3

macrumors 68000
Aug 24, 2008
1,859
0
Argh, rehashing the "debate" over HTML5 video codecs really needn't be done.

Hickson put it to rest weeks ago. The argument being there's no "defined" standard for img tags, audio, or anything else. And it's simple enough to support both, so that's what will happen.

That will last only so long. There is no hardware that supports Theora. Meanwhile Nvidia (9400m) and ATI are coming out with H.264 accelerated hardware. That's including almost every smartphone under the sun which has H.264 acceleration. This is like Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. Everyone knows who's going to win but the question is how long will it take?
 
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