MP All Models 3rd gen Ryzen... Still not possible?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by high heaven, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. high heaven macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    Dec 7, 2017
    #1
    It seems AMD 3rd gen Ryzen is out performing Intel CPU in many ways. 3rd gen Threadripper is being preparing to announce in this year.

    TB3 was the biggest issue since Ryzen is not able to use TB3. But now, it seems Intel gave their TB3 technology to USB and DP that everyone can use TB3 performance. DP 2.0 is twice faster than TB3 and it will be available in both original port and USB-C port which can be use for faster transfering datas.

    So my question is... is it still not possible to use Ryzen series on Mac and if not, why cant it be? Business issue? technical issue? software issue? Im very curious about this topic wether Mac gets Intel or AMD.
     
  2. tsialex macrumors 603

    tsialex

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    #2
  3. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #3
    It's not about Hackintosh. It's about genuine Mac computers with Ryzen CPU. I am not talking about PC with Ryzen and MacOS.
     
  4. tsialex macrumors 603

    tsialex

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    #4
    And where genuine Macs use AMD CPUs?

    Apple clearly signalised that they will continue to use Intel CPUs, see MP7,1 where it would the only possibility to use an AMD CPU in a Mac since it's a totally new platform.
     
  5. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #5
    Mac Pro 7,1 is not a great example since Intel is the only CPU supporting TB3. Ryzen is still not able to use TB3. We are in 2019, not 2020 or 2021.

    However, TB3 technology will be available for both USB 4.0 and DP 2.0 after 2020 or 2021. DP 2.0 is twice faster than TB3 and they will going to provide USB-C version for faster data transfer base on the article. After 2020 or 2021, I dont see any reasons of keeping Intel CPU just because of TB3.

    Im talking about AMD CPU after USB 4.0 and DP 2.0 release, not now.
     
  6. orph macrumors 68000

    orph

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    #6
    there are no Ryzen macs as apple doesn't sell them, buy some Apple stock and ask them at a shareholder meeting.

    this has nothing to do with TB or DP it's up to apple.

    have fun and DIY it if you want it
    https://amd-osx.com/

    I'll be trying a DIY setup some time just for fun

    if your talking about 2020 or 2021+ then ask in a few years time
     
  7. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #7
    TB3 was the main reason why Mac can not use Ryzen series but once USB 4.0 and DP 2.0 are available, I dont see any reasons of not to use it.

    Also, because of Intel, why do we have to suffer from lack of improvement by keep using 14nm process since 2015?

    Apple is already planning to start making ARM based MacBook. Oh wait, how can none-Intel CPU use TB3? This is already a big question since Apple is trying to announce it in 2020.
     
  8. cube macrumors P6

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    #8
    There are Ryzen motherboards with TB3 already.
     
  9. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #9
    TB3 is not officially supported for Ryzen. How come AMD never advertise about it?
     
  10. cube macrumors P6

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    #10
    It's all ASRock X570 motherboards. What's not official?

    What did not come out were the AM3+ boards with TB because Intel would not certify them.
     
  11. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #11
    Motherboards arent AMD official. If you google Ryzen Thunderbolt 3, there isnt any active forums or threat about TB3 even today.

    https://gadgets.ndtv.com/laptops/fe...herboards-everything-you-need-to-know-2065523
    "The only thing missing is Thunderbolt 3, which for now remains a selling point for Intel"

    https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1079723-x570-and-thunderbolt-3/

    Are there any AMD motherborads with TB3 ports at the market?
     
  12. cube macrumors P6

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    #12
    All 9 ASRock X570 motherboards support TB (one external, the others header).
     
  13. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #13
    I said not officially. Ryzen itself cant support TB3. How come Intel announced 10nm mobile CPU that they have TB3 in CPU itself? Intel didnt even approve anyone to use TB3 without Intel CPU.

    Can you confirm that TB3 on X570 motherboards are able to use TB3?
     
  14. cube macrumors P6

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    #14
    Who said AMD CPUs cannot support Thunderbolt?

    Intel opened up TB.
     
  15. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #15
    Do you have a proof?
     
  16. cube macrumors P6

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  17. high heaven thread starter macrumors regular

    high heaven

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    #17
  18. cube macrumors P6

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    #18
    X570 is connected via PCIe 4.0 x4 to a Zen 2 CPU. TB3 is PCIe 3.0 x4.

    You can also put a TB3 card on a 3.0 x8 slot connected directly to the CPU.
     
  19. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    #19
    For the Mac Pro Apple highly likely would not use Ryzen ( the entry to upper end general desktop class product line ). It has a 'checkbox' ECC capability but more than often it is not used or supported at all in real boards. Similar issues with overall bandwidth. The 3rd gen Zen ( Zen being the general microarchtiecture was possible; just not probable. ). 'Zen' is the micro arch. Ryzen ( Threadripper and EPYC ) are product lines.


    Technically not true. It is merely a metter of writing the boot firmware and getting certified. AMD didn't want to support ( put in the firmware work and buy Intel TB controllers ) Thunderbolt. That's primarily the block to being an Apple supplier. If Apple wants 'X' in their systems and you don't do ( or extremely deprioritize 'X' ) then not likely going to win any Apple design 'bake offs' to be the supplier.


    If trying to win an Apple contract that shouldn't have made a difference.

    The CPU vendor reference boards, firmware and OS bootstrap support , compiler support , etc. are all areas where Intel has broader reach than AMD. Intel has as many just software folks as AMD has technical staff. What they are implementing makes a difference; it isn't just tech porn benchmark 42 and and done as a selection process. ( Nvidia is outside looking in too. )

    Apple has given AMD lots of leash in the GPU space and AMD hasn't always delivered. AMD stumbles on the GPU progression is on reason why Mac Pro 2013 dead ended. The Mac Pro 2019 is going to launch with a 14nm , several year old entry GPU .... ( AMD's Navi needed a big re-tapeout in 2018 and slid much deeper into 2019) . Apple isn't likely going to double bet the farm on that track record.


    Unless USB-IF throws a curveball at USB4 specs, most likely Intel's next iteration TB controller will be the best and first to market "USB4' controller out there. So Apple will likely just keep using it. Other stuff may show up in peripherals but as far as computer host controllers it doesn't look like anyone is seriously on track to displace Intel in terms of 'better'.

    Intel and Apple did most of the work to get TB weaved into USB-IF. They lead the work on Type-C connector . Have done most of the work on Thunderbolt evolution. AMD didn't do much of any of that.


    Business issue : AMD's consistency and ability to deliver at scale. They have gotten lots better over last 2 years but are they going to shoot themselves in the foot again? ( two years ago it would have been much harder to tell which way they would go ). Their CPU track record is better now, but the ground floor playing from "now" to Mac won't bubble out for about 18-24 months.

    Software issue: is more a firmware issue. AMD has BIOS fixes rolling out for new Ryzen 3 boards that were suppose to "just work" with the new chips but don't. Windows 10 scheduler 'fixes' to address performance issues. etc. On a "getting better" path but still plugging holes.

    In laptop space AMD doesn't have anything for "Zen 3rd iteration" class for a long while yet. ( for outside the Mac Pro space ). Inside the Mac Pro space Threadripper 3 is sliding because the margins on EPYC are just better and that is what AMD needs. So the already years late , Mac Pro would have slid even more?

    If Apple is looking to dump Intel in 2020-2021 then AMD is probably a player in the Mac desktop space (and maybe top end laptop space if slide out to 2021 and they gets some more tweaks in). If Apple is on track to splitting the Mac product line up over two different architectures then AMD has a better shot than they have had in a decade to get Mac CPU business. In 2018-2019 products ? No. ( before the 'split' and two years ago AMD didn't have the track record ).

    That AMD and Intel are heavily competing most in the 8+ 'big' core space probably will make it hard for Apple to come up with a cost effective solution with their own homegrown solution for desktop and top end laptops. AMD has a chance but it is more than just a couple of tech porn benchmark wins.
     
  20. cube macrumors P6

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    #20
    AMD desktop CPUs have traditionally supported ECC (maybe not certified).
     
  21. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    #21
    "happens to work" isn't really supported. It works and the vendor backs up that it works is what wins real design bake offs that Apple highly like runs.

    "It should work but we really haven't throughly checked it out" is one reason why AMD has been on the sidelines for more than a few system vendors in workstation space.
     
  22. cube, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019

    cube macrumors P6

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    #22
    AMD would just need to sell the CPUs to Apple branded as PRO.
     
  23. mmomega macrumors 68040

    mmomega

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    #23
    AMD makes Ryzen Pro CPU's.

    And Thunderbolt on AMD is possible.
    Now under macOS.... who knows.
    But I know gigabyte sells Thunderbolt PCIE add-on cards and I have seen a person on YouTube build a Threadripper / Thunderbolt 3 computer on Windows 10.
     
  24. cube macrumors P6

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    May 10, 2004
    #24
    He had to hack to get TB working, but it seems now all you have to do is install the Intel driver.
     
  25. Draeconis macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Rest assured, Apple will have multiple prototypes running Ryzen, ARM and perhaps their own CPU designs. Just look at their history;

     

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