4,1 Processor Upgrade install help

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by AkuskaUK, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. AkuskaUK macrumors 6502

    AkuskaUK

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Location:
    Shanklin, Isle Of Wight
    #1
    Hi all,

    I've been looking at this thread and seeing how many people have upgraded their Mac Pro's to Hex cores and faster quads... i don't feel comfortable doing the installation myself. Is there anyone around the Portsmouth area that has done it before that can install mine for me? I can pay but not a lot as i am a Uni student and currently quite broke :(

    I have already updated to the 5,1 firmware and was thinking about purchasing some X5650's to get to the near 20k.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. wonderspark macrumors 68030

    wonderspark

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Location:
    Oregon
    #2
    I've done my 2009 4,1 Mac Pro from stock quad to a 6-core, and I go to Brighton a few times a year. Maybe timing will work out, and I can put it in for you. Do you have a time frame you're thinking about? I also know a chap in Brighton who may have done it to his, and I can ask him.
     
  3. AkuskaUK thread starter macrumors 6502

    AkuskaUK

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Location:
    Shanklin, Isle Of Wight
    #3
    Hi, thanks for the reply :) it will probably be either in the next few weeks or in April when I get my next student loan. I can provide all the tools + thermal paste you need! It would be a massive help if you could! Thank you :D
     
  4. MacUser2525 macrumors 68000

    MacUser2525

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #4
    You go to England few times a year? Also from the Geekbench he is talking about it is dual cpu machine he will be doing the upgrade in and he is off by about 5k in what he should end up with upgraded, mine shows a rock solid 25K any time I have ran it to check.

    ----------

    Don't forget the m4 washers eight needed each cpu and 2mm thermal pad to make up that difference. Oh and T15 screw driver roughly 4" long 1/4" or so diameter.

    Edit: Washer should be 1mm thick just to clarify the thickness needed.
     
  5. AkuskaUK thread starter macrumors 6502

    AkuskaUK

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Location:
    Shanklin, Isle Of Wight
    #5
    Hi, yes it's a 2.26GHz 8core machine, I should see about 25k on GeekBench? That's a vast improvement over my current processors! Will I need a thermal pad AND paste? I have the Allen keys already :)
     
  6. MacUser2525 macrumors 68000

    MacUser2525

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #6
    Well I have seen people say they have not used the extra pad without problem but if you have it apart and plenty of time to get the pad in hand before upgrade there is absolutely no reason to skip that step. Link to the washers I used and similar to but not same seller thermal pad. I got it for half the price from Hong Kong seller.

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/181237121901
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EC-360-2MM-T...Compounds_Supplies&hash=item19dda16c01&_uhb=1

    Edit: T15 screw head is what is inside the heat sink and that screwdriver fits it perfectly with no play or chance to strip a screw head, cost me $5 taxes in to buy one here.
     
  7. wonderspark macrumors 68030

    wonderspark

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Location:
    Oregon
    #7
    Ah, didn't notice the dual processor. I did my single CPU. I have always wanted to see a 4,1 dual processor swap in person, so maybe I can come help anyway. :p

    About England, yes, I went four times in 2012 and five times in 2013 for 2-3 weeks at a time. I like it there, and I was dating a girl that lives in Brighton, hence my frequent visits. I'm no longer dating her, but I still love it there and plan to go over there for some clotted cream and strawberries. :)
     
  8. Mac Gus macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2013
    Location:
    New York City
    #8
    Honestly, just do it yourself. I was feeling the same way as you but there are some good threads on here and that guy's blog that give a detailed walkthrough. Check out the thread on here i started awhile back that pretty much illustrates my experience with the processor install. It's not that difficult if you can follow the directions.
     
  9. MacUser2525 macrumors 68000

    MacUser2525

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #9
    Indeed it is not the no brain upgrade like the 2010 or later socketed cpus but pretty damn easy if you take your time and follow the directions out there.
     
  10. CrazyNurse macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    #10
    There are some youtube videos out there you can check out.

    If you have experience with PCs, you should be fine. It was helpful for me to get in there and mess around to get more confortable.

    I previously did the airport card install, messed around with the RAM, installed disk drives, tapped power from the optical bay, pulled and installed PCIe cards, and swapped out the superdrive with a BD-RE.

    The CPU swap is almost simpler as everything you're doing happens on the CPU tray until you're done, you plug it back into place, then fire her up.
     
  11. cal6n macrumors 68000

    cal6n

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Location:
    Gloucester, UK
    #11
    I'm the chap wonderspark is talking about and I live in Hove, actually.

    I've upgraded my 2.66 GHz 4,1 to 5,1 firmware and installed a 3.33 GHz hex. Although I'm now a researcher, I have over twenty years experience in engineering, including electronic and electro-mechanical fitting. I'd be happy to do the install for you for the price of a few beers if you were able to visit.

    The 4,1 dual CPU models are more complex than the 4,1 and 5,1 singles, or the 5,1 duals. Apple fitted lidless processors that are thinner than the stock Intel items by about 1.8 mm, as I understand it (never had the chance to actually measure them). This means that reassembly (using the thicker, lidded CPUs) is trickier but any competent engineer should be able to accomplish it.

    First, the old and new CPUs should be accurately measured to find the exact difference in thickness.

    Second, new thermal pads need to be made, thick enough to ensure good heat transfer between the ancillary chips on the processor board and the side ares of the heatsinks.

    Third, the heatsinks need spacers of the measured thickness added to each screw point on reassembly. Most people are able to use two stacked washers on each post and a good quality thermal paste is required. I've read accounts where people haven't used any kind of spacers. They just try to screw the heatsinks down evenly until they're about right and simply leave the screws untightened, trusting to luck. Just thinking about this brings me out in a cold sweat. It's asking for trouble.

    Finally, the temperature sensor connections between the heatsink and processor board need to be checked (and sometimes adjusted) to ensure a good connection.​
     
  12. wonderspark macrumors 68030

    wonderspark

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Location:
    Oregon
    #12
    Hey, chap! :D

    I need to make a point of grabbing a pint with you more often.

    There is nothing but good things to say about Cal(6n), and he clearly has a lot of knowledge on the subject! I'd love to hear about this if you take up his offer... I may well fly out just to see it.
     
  13. Gav Mack, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014

    Gav Mack macrumors 68020

    Gav Mack

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Location:
    Sagittarius A*
    #13
    I was over in shanklin last year though if I'd packed my tools the missus would have gone nuts lol. I'm near M25 J6 if you're passing and done all bar the 3,1. Work getting a bit crazy thanks to XP popping it's clogs in 67 days though and I'm rarely down Pompey way, you would have to be coming my way.

    Though I've stripped plenty of kit over 25 years - for Mac Pro's my CPU upgrade skills I shamelessly leeched from this place - thanks go out to every single one of you people!
     
  14. ciaran00 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    #14
    How does one update to 5,1 FW from 4,1? Is it needed for the newer processors?
     
  15. MacUser2525 macrumors 68000

    MacUser2525

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #15
    Download Mac Pro 2009-2010 Firmware Tool.app from http://forum.netkas.org/index.php run it shutdown then start the machine holding the power button until you see the progress bar showing you it is updating at least if you let it off before that it will not update. Once it shuts down after the completion of the update start it up again and confirm it was successful by going to about this mac hardware information option where it will show the machine a a 5,1 model with its firmware note it will still always show you 2009 before you use the System Report option to get to the hardware screen. If you have problems as some have reported downloading from the netkas site PM me email address and I will send you my copy.

    Edit: May as well answer the second one. Yes it is required to use the newer processors that appeared in the 2010 models. The older ones that were around at the time of the 2009 MP will go in without the update needed.
     
  16. wonderspark macrumors 68030

    wonderspark

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Location:
    Oregon
    #16
    This article that was posted May 12, 2011 has two sources. Note toward the bottom of the article, they give you both a direct link (no registration needed) and a link to netkas (registration needed) for the firmware tool.
     
  17. superdx macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    #17
    I upgraded a single socket 4,1. I had never ever even touched a CPU chip before. There's a few videos on YouTube and you should get an idea of what to expect.

    Few things you really do need:

    - A really long hex key
    - Q-tips + rubbing alcohol
    - 30 minutes
    - Thermal paste

    30 minutes was me being extra careful, but if I had to do it again I'd probably be done in about 10 minutes.
     
  18. Fastsavage macrumors member

    Fastsavage

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    Jun 28, 2011
    Location:
    Christchurch New Zealand
    #18
  19. ybz90 macrumors 6502a

    ybz90

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    #19
    I have to ask, what is the clock speed of your current quad-cores? Will you be doing anything that can actually exploit 12 cores? If not, this could end up being a downgrade for you.

    Don't be fooled by flashy Geekbench numbers -- for most tasks, it's that single-threaded performance that really counts. That said, I did this myself for my home Mac Pro and it's a tremendous upgrade (granted I do bioinformatics research, so I need those cores).

    ----------

    Washers are really unnecessary. There is a valid, but overblown, fear of overtightening. Most likely, the worst that will happen is it won't post so just loosen it. I'm not really sure how Anand managed to butcher his tray; to screw it that tight would be WAY beyond what common sense dictates. I've done this upgrade about ten times now, and it gets very tight way before you can realistically damage it.
     
  20. MacUser2525 macrumors 68000

    MacUser2525

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #20
    Great advice risk a hundreds of dollars logic board to save a minutes time and $5 not buying the washers...
     
  21. cal6n macrumors 68000

    cal6n

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Location:
    Gloucester, UK
    #21
    [RANT]

    This is exactly the sort of dangerous misinformation that I spoke of in my earlier post. There is much more to consider than overtightening, although that is a major issue.

    The design and relative dimensions of the system (meaning the processor board with its socket, pins and mounting posts, the heatsink with its precision machined surface and mounting holes and the processor itself with its known thickness and connectors covering the entire lower surface) are such that it is only assembled correctly when the securing screws are fully and evenly tightened.

    This ensures three things:

    1. That the lower face of the heatsink is parallel to the upper face of the processor, such that the thermal paste is squeezed uniformly to its thinest possible state. This ensures the best heat transfer possible.
    2. That the processor is seated exactly in its socket with the correct force established between the pins and pads.
    3. That this correct force between the pins and pads is even across the whole of the connection.

    If the stock processor is replaced by a thicker one, then the heatsink must sit higher than its stock position to compensate for the difference in thicknesses. It must also be mounted parallel to the top of the processor. The only way to achieve these goals reliably is to use appropriately sized spacers and to fully tighten the mounting screws holding the assembly together.

    If you tighten the screws without the spacers, then you will distort and stress the processor board around the socket and you will apply a connection force between the processor and its socket that is both uneven and too high. You also have almost zero chance of mating the processor top and the heatsink surface correctly.

    Oh, you might get away with it and it might work OK for a while but it's a bodge and you're subjecting the assembly to stresses that it was never designed to accept. And to perform this kind of butchery to other peoples' Macs, as you seem to state is the case, is nothing short of foolhardy arrogance.

    [/RANT]

    :mad:

    ----------

    With the previous out of my system, it'd be great to meet up again for a few more pints the next time you're over.

    :D
     
  22. MacUser2525 macrumors 68000

    MacUser2525

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #22
    Well damn so there is way to ignore the clowns on here, thanks for the sig advice.
     
  23. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    #23
    Asked and answered many many times on this and other forums. Grab yourself and pair of reading glasses and do a search.

    Lou
     
  24. ybz90 macrumors 6502a

    ybz90

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    #24
    Trust me, there is no danger of stress. It is mathematically inconsequential. Whether you use washers or not will have no effect on the stability or longevity of the system.

    Your rant is over the top and totally unwarranted. I would argue that this kind of overreaction is just as egregious as bad advice. If you want to discuss the actual risks of this with a mechanical engineer from a certain renowned Institute, feel free to PM me.

    @the OP and others considering this upgrade, if you want to use washers, go ahead. I never said you couldn't or shouldn't. Do it if you're not comfortable. I just said that it is totally unnecessary, which it is. Unless you have Hulk strength and don't know it or don't have feeling in your hands, you'll be fine.

    ----------

    Why, yes, it is great advice.
     
  25. xcodeSyn macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    #25
    If anyone is interested, here is another source from netkas with some useful info on 2009 DP upgrade. I have to chuckle with his special mention of Thomaspin's blog, pretty good stuff and some useful links provided.
     

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