4:2:0 or 4:2:2?

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by sd13, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. sd13 macrumors regular

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    #1
    Where should I leave my settings at? My TV is an oled lg c6?
     
  2. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #2
    IMHO as of today - 4:2:2 overhead won't matter (except for UI), as all media on consumer market seems to be produced in 4:2:0.
     
  3. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    #3
    Does not 4:2:0 comprimise the picture? If you use the 4:2:2 it will be sendt to the tv without the need for it to be decrypted or decoded?
     
  4. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #4
    No. This affects only chroma subsampling - in simple terms the sharpness reduction level of the chroma (color) information in relation to luminance information.
    Because UHD bluray is also encoded in 4:2:0, I was saying that in consumer world all video is in 4:2:0.
    If you enforce aTV to do 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 output, it will need to internally re-format the signal on HDMI to that higher level and uses more bandwidth to deliver the non-existing signal (here I assume that in iTunes streaming the video is not encoded in better quality than UHD Bluray. I would like to be proven wrong).
    The only exception should be the UI graphics, as this has been created in RGB space (effectively in 4:4:4 in YCrCb space). So UI sent in 4:2:0 has its color sharpness reduced from the original.
     
  5. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    #5
    In other words, you are saying: 4:2:0 gives you the best picture?
     
  6. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #6
    Short answer - its the best compromise. Because even if you raise the color sharpness on HDMI, your signal sources do not carry that information. So what's the point?
     
  7. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    #7
    And you are sure of this? thad movies etc do not show 4:4:4?
     
  8. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #8
  9. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    #9
    Thank you for the feedback.

    But, i dot not understand how 4:2:0 is better than 4:4:4? I understand that 4 4 4 is not needed, but why would you say 4 2 0 gives you better picture quality?
     
  10. sd13 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #10
    If I plug in my atv4k directly into my lg c6 oled tv HDMI port, I get option for both 4:2:0. However, if I’m using my HDMI switch hub which allows me to plug in multiple devices into one HDMI port it only gives me an option for 4:2:0. Will I lose any picture quality if I only use 4:2:0?
     
  11. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #11
    Did I say it is better? No, it is the worst. But what is the point to switch your equipment to higher quality, if all the movies you can play are in lower quality (4:2:0)??
    It is just a waste of bandwidth.
    tvOS onscreen graphics are different story, but I do not believe you will feel much difference from your normal viewing distance.
     
  12. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    #12
    aha, Okey, my bad. I did not understand you correctly.

    Thank you for this. Very useful.

    So if I understand correct. 4:4:4 does not make it better or worse than 2:2:0 than? The picture is the same?
     
  13. Steve28 macrumors regular

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    #13

    4:4:4 will not make any difference because all of the movies/shows/etc. you can get on Netflix, iTunes, Amazon, etc. are all subsampled at 4:2:0. So setting your system to 4:4:4 will not improve the picture at all.

    Now if at some point in the the future, content providers (iTunes, Netflix, etc) start distributing content in 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 then it would make a difference. However, that future is far off at best. It may never come since, it's been shown that for video content at normal TV sizes (i.e., not movie theaters) and normal viewing distances (i.e., not stating 1 foot from the giant TV), you can't tell the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 (or 4:4:4) anyway.
     
  14. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    #14
    thank you for all of this:)

    Final question, could putting the setting to 4:4:4 make the picture worse?
     
  15. err404 macrumors 68020

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    #15
    Assuming that the spec, hardware and cables could support it, no. 4:4:4 would be essentially the raw image decoded on the ATV and sent as RGB to the TV. The issues would be from a higher bandwidth signal that is more error prone, yet offers no improvements to any available content. There is really no point other than bragging rights.
     
  16. TopShelf macrumors member

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    #16
    I found a had a more enjoyable image on 4. 2.2 when comparing the options on Netflix.

    One thing I noticed though, is when I downloaded an iTunes 4k movie, is it seemed zoomed in, (the names of the actors were large and half their name was cut off on the edge of the TV. Not sure what that would be, but no issue on Netflix.
     
  17. mattopotamus macrumors G5

    mattopotamus

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    #17
    The UHD standard is 4:2:0, no reason to use anything else.
     
  18. err404 macrumors 68020

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    #18
    Yes and no. The Apple TV does more than just play videos. Games, photos, the UI and any other app will see some improvement from 4:2:2.
    This is similar to frame rate. Just because films are usually 24hz, doesn’t negate the benefits of 60hz.
     
  19. ModernMan macrumors newbie

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    #19
    Hmmm... My AppleTV 4K (TVOS 11.2) is set to 4K 60Hz HDR, with Match Content (Range and Rate). When I play Amazon Prime 4K UHD material it shows up on my projector in 4K 24hz 4:4:4 (Lost City of Z) or 4K 24Hz 4:2:2 (Man in the High Castle). The doesn't seem to make sense if the content is streamed at 4:2:0. What's up with that?
     
  20. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #20
    Just set it to the highest Chroma setting that works. As others have pointed out, video media is not the only thing that the Apple TV displays.

    If no app takes advantage of it, no harm done. If some app does take advantage of it, either now or in the future, you'll already have the right setting in place.

    If the higher Chroma setting works, then leaving it at the lower Chroma setting makes no sense. Is your HDMI cable charging you for excess bandwidth use? Does it have a monthly cap and overage fees? :p
     
  21. macpeach55 macrumors 6502

    macpeach55

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    #21
    --- Post Merged, Apr 11, 2018 ---
    Hi,

    I am missing something I know, but I just moved the the Belkin Cables Apple Recommends & finally can switch to Dolby Vision without any sparkling & Flickering. When trying to get everything to work (I was using Audioquest Pearl Cables, which should have been up to the job), I remember being able to switch between Chroma 4:2:2 & 4:4:4 but now I cannot find how to do that, or check what Chroma I am on.

    Help Please!!
     
  22. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #22
    Video settings section.
     
  23. macpeach55 macrumors 6502

    macpeach55

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    #23
    Was there before & just there - what is the route as I went into all the headings and do not find it
     
  24. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #24
    It's right there in the Video & Audio settings, top level. It's not any deeper than that, so I can't really give a "route".

    It sounds like your Chroma setting went missing, so the Chroma setting visibility might be dependent upon some other setting being enabled or disabled, probably related to HDR but I don't know.

    upload_2018-4-11_10-35-23.png
     
  25. macpeach55, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018

    macpeach55 macrumors 6502

    macpeach55

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    #25
    Ok, thanks - yes this Chroma line simply does not show! The only things I have done is connect the Belkin Cables, (Everything was powered down during this) and while I was travelling the unit updated to the latest software. This line simply does not show - I am going to try turning off the matching, reset to 4K HDR & do a restart

    UPDATE: I tried this process twice before Today, but strangely this time, unticking matching did produce the Chroma line, which was already set to 4:2:2 (That & 4:2:0 were the only two options). Do you have only the same two choices?)
    Thanks for your time & patience!
     

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24 December 5, 2017