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4, 8 or 16Gb of RAM?
- Thread starter MartinAppleGuy
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RAM doesn't really affect gaming. When I game on my iMac, games only uses around 2Gb at most. Seeing as people don't run other things when they are playing, 4Gb of RAM would do for gaming. The main problem is VRAM as well as the GPU itself. I game with the Nvidia GeForce GT 750m. Really, if you plan to game the 13" MBP's are not going to be good enough. You are going to need to go for either the 15" with Iris Pro for average gaming, or the 750m for major gaming.
Indeed; however, some mac game publishers are completely oblivious of that and constantly ask for 8GB minimum cough dead island cough.
According to that I should get 8GB, but I've done just fine with 4GB since 2010 and still don't come very close to using it all. Right now the system is the by far biggest user of RAM using 1.1GB probably as some kind of pseudo RAM disc.
Oh well... For the next machine I plan on getting 8GB is the standard so I suppose I should do fine unless I want to start running a crapload of VM's or become a really sloppy programmer (kind of a neat freak when it comes to memory use).
Oh well... For the next machine I plan on getting 8GB is the standard so I suppose I should do fine unless I want to start running a crapload of VM's or become a really sloppy programmer (kind of a neat freak when it comes to memory use).
I think the bottom line is you need to see what your usage is in your particular situation. If you don't see too many page-ins/page-outs or if you're on mavericks ram pressure. Then there's no need to upgrade.
When you don't even come close to using all of your RAM at once you're generally not going to have many page ins or outs. Maverics is known to use extra RAM to speed things up by storing often accessed files that are usually kept on the HDD whenever there's an overabundance of RAM.
I could upgrade if I wanted to, but it would just be a complete waste of money because even Maverics can't come up with some smart use for all of my current RAM.
Given that apple now hard wires ram onto the logic board, its generally safer to be a bit more aggressive in deciding how much ram to get for a new computer.
I agree, in your case you don't need the ram but on a new computer you'll be locked in and so its safe to get a more then you need, for peace of mind and the future
As much as you can afford
The practice of hard soldered parts is insane, only those that live in nuthouses think it is a great idea for professional devices to be rendered useless with the liberal use of solder.
Apple made 2 decisions, that contradict themselves, they designed the new rMBP with hard solder, yet the MacPro has no hard soldered parts, for the RAM, SSD and CPU/GPU....
The bad press about the pro range laptops with hard soldered parts cannot be good, I hate it, my rMBP is called hunk o junk for a reason, it simply cannot be used as a pro tool, even with 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSB...
The 13inch pro macbook range is not something I would suggest you look at, I would suggest an older model, that can be updated, at least then you might stand a chance, for video and audio work, unless you are doing small projects, the macbookpro is simply not worth the cash.
I have made this very clear to Mr Cook/Ive in long tweets, as they are ripping the customer off... Why did they, Cook/Ive not push for a better pro range, instead they went for LCD, lowest crummy devices...
I would have spent the cash for a spanking new 17inch, with 32GB RAM and a 1TB drive, in a heart beat, but this was not available....
The practice of hard soldered parts is insane, only those that live in nuthouses think it is a great idea for professional devices to be rendered useless with the liberal use of solder.
Apple made 2 decisions, that contradict themselves, they designed the new rMBP with hard solder, yet the MacPro has no hard soldered parts, for the RAM, SSD and CPU/GPU....
The bad press about the pro range laptops with hard soldered parts cannot be good, I hate it, my rMBP is called hunk o junk for a reason, it simply cannot be used as a pro tool, even with 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSB...
The 13inch pro macbook range is not something I would suggest you look at, I would suggest an older model, that can be updated, at least then you might stand a chance, for video and audio work, unless you are doing small projects, the macbookpro is simply not worth the cash.
I have made this very clear to Mr Cook/Ive in long tweets, as they are ripping the customer off... Why did they, Cook/Ive not push for a better pro range, instead they went for LCD, lowest crummy devices...
I would have spent the cash for a spanking new 17inch, with 32GB RAM and a 1TB drive, in a heart beat, but this was not available....
Apple aren't the first to solder RAM and they won't be the last. My company specialises in embedded design, and I fully understand the drivers behind ditching something that most of your customers never use (a physical RAM slot to facilitate upgrading), instead using the space to increase battery size/shrink the machine/etc.
Portability has always carried a premium and involved compromise when it comes to mobile device like laptops. The Mac Pro doesn't suffer from the same level of pressure on space, so there's really no contradiction there.
Very few laptops have had user upgradeable GPU's, so not sure where you're coming from there.
The SSD is upgradeable, there just aren't any 3rd party options yet. Just as there weren't when manufacturers first started jumping on 1.8" drives, or SSD's etc.
Not sure why you're recommending an older model that can be upgraded. When the current model is available with 16GB RAM, which is the maximum the older model can take anyway. Its not as though you can add 64GB to the cMBP
If you're really that unhappy with your machine, sell it. Its a rapidly depreciating asset, which isn't worth holding onto if its not working for you.
Personally I'm extremely happy with my 13" rMBP. I happily run it at native, can have all the applications/docs/connections/etc open over multiple desktops without noticing any slow down. The battery life is phenomenal. Its small and reasonably light. Excellent track pad. Great screen, coupled with reasonable OS support for the screens high res (resolution independence would be the holy grail, but HiDPI is an acceptable workaround, just wish they exposed more res's including native).
Given the pricing, I don't think that's a good idea. You're spending >1000 for what 2 or 3 year old technology. You're paying a premium for the ability to upgrade the ram and have an optical drive.
The decision to hard solder the RAM, the hard drive is stupid, to lock the consumer into a fixed system is insane.
The design of RAM is stupid, it is no longer a valid design, as we mature with technology, so the idea of design has to change, what is wrong with a different shaped RAM stick, that is longer, thinner, has more RAM modules on???
Who decreed RAM has to remain the same rectangular shape it has been since the 1900's??? Only idiots see this as a valid design...
A disk shape with 128 modules instead of a rectangle with 16...The problem is for Apple, Mr Ive and co are trading on past success as current success, the problem is, the new designs are simply not fit for purpose..
As example, who in their right mind puts stereo audio on the ipad, with speakers only on 1 side of the device??? Mr Ive is not the hot designer he thinks he is...
I will call the new MacbookPro 13 inch junk, as it is, no reason it had to be this way, that was a decision made by Apple and it was wrong...Was and will for ever remain wrong...
The design of RAM is stupid, it is no longer a valid design, as we mature with technology, so the idea of design has to change, what is wrong with a different shaped RAM stick, that is longer, thinner, has more RAM modules on???
Who decreed RAM has to remain the same rectangular shape it has been since the 1900's??? Only idiots see this as a valid design...
A disk shape with 128 modules instead of a rectangle with 16...The problem is for Apple, Mr Ive and co are trading on past success as current success, the problem is, the new designs are simply not fit for purpose..
As example, who in their right mind puts stereo audio on the ipad, with speakers only on 1 side of the device??? Mr Ive is not the hot designer he thinks he is...
I will call the new MacbookPro 13 inch junk, as it is, no reason it had to be this way, that was a decision made by Apple and it was wrong...Was and will for ever remain wrong...
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you, but as I mentioned you have a choice. Buy the rMBP with the soldered ram, or buy another computer that doesn't solder the ram.
I wouldn't get all worked up about it, the MBP is just a computer after all.
What's the point of buying outdated hardware just so it's upgradeable? You'd be far better off buying a modern rMBP for pro work than 2/3 year old hardware.
My point is this, the 2013 released Macbook Pro is not professional, as long as the RAM, SSD and such is hard soldered, this renders it consumer grade, professional would be upgradeable.
If Nikon and Canon sold only cameras with fixed lenses, they would very soon be out of business, in professional photography, you change lenses, so Apple should have been professional and done the same with the RAM, and SSD, of all the components in a laptop, RAM and SSD are the most likely to break..
Apple has made a mistake...Why is the MACPRO upgradeable??? Imagine the bad press if the Macpro has only hard soldered parts...
If Nikon and Canon sold only cameras with fixed lenses, they would very soon be out of business, in professional photography, you change lenses, so Apple should have been professional and done the same with the RAM, and SSD, of all the components in a laptop, RAM and SSD are the most likely to break..
Apple has made a mistake...Why is the MACPRO upgradeable??? Imagine the bad press if the Macpro has only hard soldered parts...
How so? Is the performance of the computer hampered because you have ram soldered onto the logic board. Technically the SSD is upgradeable, though there are no aftermarket options (yet).
How is a computer that can have 16GB of ram and 512GB (or more) storage not professional?
You seem to equate professional with the ability to upgrade, while the term professional in the case of the MBP is really a marketing term. They sell more MBPs to consumers then to true professionals. Nonetheless the computer is very capable at handling professional tasks and that is what is required.
Besides a machine for a professional has a finite life, given the depreciation that occurs with business machines. Businesses do not upgrade machines, they replace them so for professionals the ability to upgrade is not a huge factor
Professional is being able to perform a task within budget and within a period of time.
The Macbook Pro that is 13 inches, with 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD is not professional, the MacPro is professional, as it can be upgraded, parts replaced without sending out to the Apple store for updating.
I should be able to purchase, replaceable RAM, hard-drives, and self install without sending the device out to Apple and waiting 6 months for RAM to be installed.
The Air is consumer, let that be for them, video editing is not always done in the office, sometimes it is done on the road, stuff happens, RAM fails, and now if that happens, I could with my older mac, buy RAM, shove it in, be on my way, editing..
So how this new soldered version is professional is beyond me, it is stupid and the team that says it is, is not right in the head, that includes Mr Ive, who has demonstrated a clear loss of function in the design of the ipad mini...
If professional cameras have interchangeable lenses, then laptops for professionals should have interchangeable hard drives and RAM.
The Macbook Pro that is 13 inches, with 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD is not professional, the MacPro is professional, as it can be upgraded, parts replaced without sending out to the Apple store for updating.
I should be able to purchase, replaceable RAM, hard-drives, and self install without sending the device out to Apple and waiting 6 months for RAM to be installed.
The Air is consumer, let that be for them, video editing is not always done in the office, sometimes it is done on the road, stuff happens, RAM fails, and now if that happens, I could with my older mac, buy RAM, shove it in, be on my way, editing..
So how this new soldered version is professional is beyond me, it is stupid and the team that says it is, is not right in the head, that includes Mr Ive, who has demonstrated a clear loss of function in the design of the ipad mini...
If professional cameras have interchangeable lenses, then laptops for professionals should have interchangeable hard drives and RAM.
Not me!!!
I call it as I see it, if you see it another way, that is fine, I am only saying what it is...I am not a fan of bad decisions and poor design. All that needs to happen is update the range to user replaceable parts...What is wrong with user replaceable parts???
I call it as I see it, if you see it another way, that is fine, I am only saying what it is...I am not a fan of bad decisions and poor design. All that needs to happen is update the range to user replaceable parts...What is wrong with user replaceable parts???
JustinePaula, while that may be true of the 2012 and earlier model Mac Pro, with the 2013 Mac Pro you can't upgrade much with it. I believe only the RAM and SSD are end user upgradeable. Otherwise you get what you get internally, and you'll have to get external storage devices (like Thunderbolt drives or if a client needs something on optical media a USB SuperDrive.
Please stop trolling and complaining about your 13" rMBP. If you don't like it... SELL IT AND GET SOMETHING ELSE! We don't need to read your whiny posts.
Please stop trolling and complaining about your 13" rMBP. If you don't like it... SELL IT AND GET SOMETHING ELSE! We don't need to read your whiny posts.
Not me!!!
I call it as I see it, if you see it another way, that is fine, I am only saying what it is...I am not a fan of bad decisions and poor design. All that needs to happen is update the range to user replaceable parts...What is wrong with user replaceable parts???
Not sure why I'm responding because you've made your decision, but the idea that Apple made bad decisions because they've eliminated the consumer's (professional or otherwise) ability to upgrade parts is an opinion based on just your experience or desire. It's a numbers game and Apple is doing what they're doing because so few people were upgrading, not to mention it makes the product easier to design and build.
In the past, upgrading parts was the norm because changes and improvements to tech happened fast and what you bought was likely obsolete months after it was released. We've already passed the time when great improvements happen that fast, both on the hardware and software side.
The computer industry is doing what most product manufacturers are in making their appliances so well and capable today that they simply don't need to be upgraded. My 2011 13" Air still helps run a business (it's not just some consumer laptop as you suggest), and I don't need to upgrade its ram or gpu or ssd, because it fully functions doing what we need it too. Compared to the 2013 iMac we have or the MBPr 15", it isn't hampered in any way and offers benefits the other computers don't.
Perhaps you bought the wrong computer for the wrong purpose and you're unhappy with your decision? Try running a company and make decisions not only for yourself but for consumers that will impact both not just for today but for the next 10 years, and then come back and I'll take your rants as being a bit more valid.
That is not actually the definition of professional and implying a different meaning simply to serve your argument lends you no credibility.
A professional is simply someone that is occupied in an activity as their livelihood or for personal gain. Any tool which is suitable to enable them to do that can be classified as a professional tool. Equally labelling a tool as professional doesn't automatically infer that it is suitable for ones profession.
I don't know where you got the idea that the ability to pop open a few screws and swap a RAM module makes one a professional or a tool a professional tool. By your definition a mobile phone is not a professional tool, nor is an oscilloscope, the plethora of electronics you'll see around you in hospitals/etc.
Your example of a DSLR and changeable lenses is erroneous. There is no single lens that can do all the jobs a set of discrete inter changeable lenses can. That is why a professional photographer would not consider a fixed lens camera. However, one can specify an rMBP with the maximum RAM the machine can take (even with user upgradeable RAM it will never take more). If there was an all singing all dancing lens that could out perform any set of discrete lenses, of course a professional photographer would purchase a fixed lens camera with that lens. Why do they need or want to carry a selection of lenses in that scenario.
A better example would be to look at the processor, sensor or RAM in a camera. There are no DSLR's with any of those components upgradeable. Yet you still consider a DSLR a professional tool.
Going back to the definition of professional, it is clearly apparent why a professional wouldn't want to tinker with their tools if avoidable. Because that detracts from them carrying out their profession. While someone is popping open their laptop to upgrade their RAM, they aren't doing their profession, hence that is time wasted. So in fact a tool that you never need to tinker with is in fact the best tool for any profession.
If I walked into a manufacturing facility, they'd laugh me out the door if I tried to suggest their (often archaic computers) were not professional tools and they should really ditch them and get ones they can upgrade.
In fact to the contrary, its not professionals but Amateurs who have more to lose with soldered in RAM. Any professional that buys a tool and finds they need to upgrade it has only themselves to blame. Whereas an Amateur can plead ignorance and therefore may benefit from the opportunity to mitigate the consequences of that ignorance by the ability to upgrade a tools ability's.
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It's a question of who will pay for such a standards transformation of a commodity. Apple could certainly push the memory makers to their own proprietary standard, but will give up some of their fabled margins. If all makers were to transition to something new, it may happen; but until then it's a game of chicken and egg.
I am sensing a lot of philosophizing and existentialism on the topics of RAM, marketing, etc. I'd like to bring it back to a more practical question: Do I need 8gb or 16 gb of ram? I ask because I am still running on my mid-2007 core 2 duo macbook. It has served me well but has crapped out a few times, requiring various resuscitation. I am moving overseas so I need to move on to something solid.
Usage: I edit photos in lightroom in large batches, do word processing/excel, heavy web browsing (e.g. 15 tabs at once), listen to music, and run a program called Citrix to virtualize my work desktop. Lots of other programs, like Rosetta Stone, BYKI, Skype, typical expat stuff. No magic here. Just lots and lots and lots of photos. I have basically had to stop editing photos my core 2 duo machine and pretty much just use it for web browsing. Even gmail is slow on my MB now.
I want my computer to last another 7 years. Will 8gb of ram get me across the finish line to 2021? Or will I need 16gb?
I did the math, and this little guy cost me $1400 plus another $100 in various upgrades and repairs (more ram, new battery), so $215/year or about $18/month. On a side note, would the base model $899 MBA get me 4 years of life? Not that I'm going to go that route, just curious
Usage: I edit photos in lightroom in large batches, do word processing/excel, heavy web browsing (e.g. 15 tabs at once), listen to music, and run a program called Citrix to virtualize my work desktop. Lots of other programs, like Rosetta Stone, BYKI, Skype, typical expat stuff. No magic here. Just lots and lots and lots of photos. I have basically had to stop editing photos my core 2 duo machine and pretty much just use it for web browsing. Even gmail is slow on my MB now.
I want my computer to last another 7 years. Will 8gb of ram get me across the finish line to 2021? Or will I need 16gb?
I did the math, and this little guy cost me $1400 plus another $100 in various upgrades and repairs (more ram, new battery), so $215/year or about $18/month. On a side note, would the base model $899 MBA get me 4 years of life? Not that I'm going to go that route, just curious
Will 8GB be enough...For lightweight email yes, for video editing, and heavy graphics, NO....
Given that replacing parts in the new Macbook range of laptops requires handing it over to Apple, and the cost of that, combined with the problems of unsoldering parts, even if the RAM or other components being available in the next 7 years, it might be best to buy something now, and start a savings fund to buy new in a few years...
Of course 16GB RAM is going to help loads, if you can afford it, max out the options..Start saving for the next laptop, given most laptops last about 4-5 years max..7 years is a stretch..
Given that replacing parts in the new Macbook range of laptops requires handing it over to Apple, and the cost of that, combined with the problems of unsoldering parts, even if the RAM or other components being available in the next 7 years, it might be best to buy something now, and start a savings fund to buy new in a few years...
Of course 16GB RAM is going to help loads, if you can afford it, max out the options..Start saving for the next laptop, given most laptops last about 4-5 years max..7 years is a stretch..