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In general, it's just not economical to test every possible use case. In addition, there's often insufficient business case to justify a fix for some defects (eg. suitable work-arounds exist or the negative consequences are insignificant compared to the cost of fixing). All software (and therefore most hardware) ships with bugs, it's just a question of the number, severity, and the use cases which trigger them that determines the perceived quality.

point taken. but how hard is it to run a comparative benchmark from this version to the version it is super-seeding?

the coders/devs should have built it in such a way that the software can be improved each time, not the reverse!

i only hope that the bad benchmarks are because some sort of new programming techniques (or anything) has been used and it needs more work to fully bring out the true quality. /dream
 
I'm not making excuses, but in all fairness, the audio bug is not something that was even really discovered in the wild for about 6 months and the severity was limited in impact. There was also a simple work-around... DDT in the world of QA (Don't do that). I know this wasn't palatable to many, but it had to be triaged against the myriad of other issues that are all demanding resources on any given day.
That issue should have been caught during testing IMO. Thermal testing is a big one, as is testing the board's components, including with the software. In this case, Macs are a closed system and it really should have been caught.

Even other board makers will test with Windows before releasing a board, and more are also beginning to test with some versions of UNIX (typically well known Linux distros, particularly enterprise boards). It's not always perfect, but is that way for the same reasons the failure occurred with the MP's this time around. Too few resources and pushed out the door too quickly (went short on validation testing to make the deadline).

There's also the liberal use of improper components (too cheap = substandard specifications for the design that tends to occur during production by some moronic accountant). But that wasn't the case here.

I could perhaps see the issue with external audio devices (i.e. 3rd party hardware not tested), but not the audio chip on the logic board.
 
I'm not making excuses, but in all fairness, the audio bug is not something that was even really discovered in the wild for about 6 months and the severity was limited in impact. There was also a simple work-around... DDT in the world of QA (Don't do that). I know this wasn't palatable to many, but it had to be triaged against the myriad of other issues that are all demanding resources on any given day.

In general, it's just not economical to test every possible use case. In addition, there's often insufficient business case to justify a fix for some defects (eg. suitable work-arounds exist or the negative consequences are insignificant compared to the cost of fixing). All software (and therefore most hardware) ships with bugs, it's just a question of the number, severity, and the use cases which trigger them that determines the perceived quality. Most QA departments establish benchmarks which must be met (eg. no sev 1 defects, less than X sev 2 defects, etc.). There's likely hundreds of known bugs in OSX 10.6.2 and likely just as many unknown bugs, but the majority are of insignificant severity or take unusual circumstances to invoke.

Given Apple's fairly liberal warranty (and the costs associated with it) and discerning user base (aka picky), I'd say they are probably very sensitive to the risks of poor QA and probably take more measures than most to minimize their after sales support and warranty costs and therefore invest more than average in QA.

To be more accurate, these are two independent reported incidents on the issue - about 3 months and 5 months after the Mac Pro was announced. It may be worth noting that both users discovered it within 3 weeks of use. It is reasonable for one to question how Apple Testers could've missed it.


1) https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/710682/
(3 weeks into using the Mac Pro when gsdesign uncovered the infamous heat issue)

2) http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2112526&start=0&tstart=0
(3 weeks into using the Mac Pro when Mike Hume noticed the audio impact on the CPU tempeature)

VirtualRain's detailed testing - https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8952814/ - made a pretty strong case.

All said, I think it is very reasonable to assume that Apple uses/tests machine with applications that users tend to rely on. Besides, Apple pride herself with her iApps. iTunes is pretty much a major asset. To let this issue to drag for almost a year speaks volume ...

Kinda off topic thus I'll cut off here.

I'll round up by saying glad that Apple resolved this issue but we will appreciate if such bugs be ironed out before sales. Or maybe resolve such issues in a more timely fashion.
 
Something interesting from the latest testing at BareFeats. This may be of interest to you.

For reasons that remain a mystery for the moment, the newest version of Final Cut Studio (7) is significanty slower than previous version (6) -- at least where Compressor and Motion are concerned. Hopefully, this will be addressed by Apple's software engineers in a future point release.

http://www.barefeats.com/fcp7.html

Sounds like we have the reason that 40 FC employees have been laid off??
 
hmmmm. that was my plans. get apple care off of ebay. i still might, ill just be super careful ;)

I would avoid eBay for Applecare, when you are going to spend 3000$ for a Mac Pro. Search Amazon for a discounted Applecare
 
I would avoid eBay for Applecare, when you are going to spend 3000$ for a Mac Pro. Search Amazon for a discounted Applecare

WTF?! Perhaps advising someone to avoid unreputable sellers on ebay is good advice, but to avoid it altogether? Ebay and Paypal both offer guarantees from bad transactions. The feedback system is also a good indicator of who you are dealing with. There are a lot of very reputable sellers of AppleCare on ebay. While I'm not one of them, I just purchased a perfectly legitimate AppleCare warranty for my 2009 Mac Pro for $60 off ebay.
 
I would avoid eBay for Applecare, when you are going to spend 3000$ for a Mac Pro. Search Amazon for a discounted Applecare
i only have an imac :p it cost $2800aus :p

WTF?! Perhaps advising someone to avoid unreputable sellers on ebay is good advice, but to avoid it altogether? Ebay and Paypal both offer guarantees from bad transactions. The feedback system is also a good indicator of who you are dealing with. There are a lot of very reputable sellers of AppleCare on ebay. While I'm not one of them, I just purchased a perfectly legitimate AppleCare warranty for my 2009 Mac Pro for $60 off ebay.
wow now that is cheap! im of the same opinion as you are. if you do the research then you are fine! i normally only buy from sellers with 100% satisfaction, or 99% (if they sell thousands of items, you're bound to have an unhappy buyer somewhere).
 
WTF?! Perhaps advising someone to avoid unreputable sellers on ebay is good advice, but to avoid it altogether? Ebay and Paypal both offer guarantees from bad transactions. The feedback system is also a good indicator of who you are dealing with. There are a lot of very reputable sellers of AppleCare on ebay. While I'm not one of them, I just purchased a perfectly legitimate AppleCare warranty for my 2009 Mac Pro for $60 off ebay.

There is a 26 pages long thread about that, on this very forum.
I bought several AppleCares on eBay, from a seller with 100% satisfaction.
Nevertheless I know that if I eventually sell one of my Mac and want to transfer the Applecare to the new owner, Apple is going to ask me proof of purchase, and a Paypal or eBay receipt IS NOT a valid proof for Apple.
It's a gamble ...

wow now that is cheap! im of the same opinion as you are. if you do the research then you are fine! i normally only buy from sellers with 100% satisfaction, or 99% (if they sell thousands of items, you're bound to have an unhappy buyer somewhere).

If you buy a code-only Applecare, you could have problems ...
 
i know. and its illegal and you're stupid if you buy them in that form. because you wont be covered by insurence etc if you get in the ******* (eg code doesnt work)

I discovered it after the purchase ... :rolleyes:
Never do again ...
 
I discovered it after the purchase ... :rolleyes:
Never do again ...

What happened to you?

I bought an Applecare code off eBay for my Macbook Air and Apple replaced my sloppy hinge (which necessitates replacing the whole top clam shell portion with the display) and never questioned my AC status despite this being a questionable and contentious repair.
 
Wirelessly posted (nokia e63: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.2; U; Series60/3.1 NokiaE63-1/100.21.110; Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

VirtualRain said:
I discovered it after the purchase ... :rolleyes:
Never do again ...

What happened to you?

I bought an Applecare code off eBay for my Macbook Air and Apple replaced my sloppy hinge (which necessitates replacing the whole top clam shell portion with the display) and never questioned my AC status despite this being a questionable and contentious repair.

I'm guessing that his code didn't work lol
 
What happened to you?

I bought an Applecare code off eBay for my Macbook Air and Apple replaced my sloppy hinge (which necessitates replacing the whole top clam shell portion with the display) and never questioned my AC status despite this being a questionable and contentious repair.

Wirelessly posted (nokia e63: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.2; U; Series60/3.1 NokiaE63-1/100.21.110; Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)



I'm guessing that his code didn't work lol

Actually I have 5 ACPPs bought from eBay (Macman), all of them still active. And I used two of them twice.
One is from 2007 ...

That's not the point. If I sell one of my Macs, I simply can't transfer the ACPP to the new owner because Apple is gonna ask me a proof of purchase I cannot have.
I don't know if I'm going to buy again an ACPP from eBay ....
 
Actually I have 5 ACPPs bought from eBay (Macman), all of them still active. And I used two of them twice.
One is from 2007 ...

That's not the point. If I sell one of my Macs, I simply can't transfer the ACPP to the new owner because Apple is gonna ask me a proof of purchase I cannot have.
I don't know if I'm going to buy again an ACPP from eBay ....

thats fair enough if you plan on selling. my imac was/is a long term purchase. i will have it for at least 10 years! (the screen can be re-used even if the processor gets outdated)
 
thats fair enough if you plan on selling. my imac was/is a long term purchase. i will have it for at least 10 years! (the screen can be re-used even if the processor gets outdated)

that's indeed a long time given the pace we're moving.
 
Wirelessly posted (nokia e63: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.2; U; Series60/3.1 NokiaE63-1/100.21.110; Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

iamcheerful said:
thats fair enough if you plan on selling. my imac was/is a long term purchase. i will have it for at least 10 years! (the screen can be re-used even if the processor gets outdated)

that's indeed a long time given the pace we're moving.

it really is but like I said, monitor size over that time frame won't really change. The resolution of the monitors might Haha. 2560x1440 will be the same as 640x480 in 10years time lol!
 
thats fair enough if you plan on selling. my imac was/is a long term purchase. i will have it for at least 10 years! (the screen can be re-used even if the processor gets outdated)

No way I can keep a computer for such a long time :D
I change notebook every 2 years, while I keep my desktop for about 3 years (so it should be ok for my Mini but the problem is a real pain in the ass for my MacBook Pro).
 
No way I can keep a computer for such a long time :D
I change notebook every 2 years, while I keep my desktop for about 3 years (so it should be ok for my Mini but the problem is a real pain in the ass for my MacBook Pro).

wow ok haha. my MBP is nearly 4 years old and its getting on now :( very slow but since ive gotten my imac i can just offload the CPU intensive work to it. no problems there. i think this imac will last me a good while, ill keep it as my primary machine until
1) i can afford the latest macpro and can upgrade each time a new one comes out
2) the intel quad i7 cpu is no longer supported by apple for the latest 10.x upgrade
3) i need more RAM (im preying to god that it supports 32GB and even 64GB).
 
wow ok haha. my MBP is nearly 4 years old and its getting on now :( very slow but since ive gotten my imac i can just offload the CPU intensive work to it. no problems there. i think this imac will last me a good while, ill keep it as my primary machine until
1) i can afford the latest macpro and can upgrade each time a new one comes out
2) the intel quad i7 cpu is no longer supported by apple for the latest 10.x upgrade
3) i need more RAM (im preying to god that it supports 32GB and even 64GB).

C'mon, your MBP it's not so slow ;)
 
trust me, it is :(

Core Duo @ 2.16ghz = slow, hot, and power hungry!

not to mention that i only have 2GB of RAM in it!

We still have 4 MBPs like your: they are not so slow in normal office automation duties.
I agree: they are hot.
 
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