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Slash-2CPU

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 14, 2016
404
267
It’s an aluminum box with a few clips and screws plus 2 cables. $400? Why?

Wonder how long before a 3rd party kit comes out for $99?
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,171
3,784
It’s an aluminum box with a few clips and screws plus 2 cables. $400? Why?

Wonder how long before a 3rd party kit comes out for $99?

Err there is a 8TB drive there too.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...2i-8tb-internal-storage-enclosure-for-mac-pro

Promise is using the HDD to drive the price much higher price point. An "enterprise" NAS 8TB drive is going to run around $250-350 . Subtract that (especially at the upper end of that range ) from the $399 here and get a decent price for a bracket.

But yeah... not sure how that is going to hold up in sales to folks who already have HDDs and just need the bracket.
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Because it includes 2x 4 TB drives.

There is only one. 2 would actually be a bargain if certified NAS drives.

It can hold at max two, but it only ships with one. Shipping with two drives would be an even more ludicrous pricing gimmick.




P.S. it is a bit sad that Apple would indirectly endorse these kinds of games on bracket pricing at the launch of the product. But it is almost like they want folks to spew 'hate' at the system because it will generate more 'buzz'. $400 wheels will be up there too.
 
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Slash-2CPU

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 14, 2016
404
267
Was planning to buy bracket and put my two 4TB Samsung’s in it. $250-350 for an 8TB platter? For the price range of this system, who’s going to run a platter???
 

DoofenshmirtzEI

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2011
862
713
I don't ever expect to buy spinners for internal storage in the future. I think the market for HDD brackets other than for people to mount existing drives is going to be pretty thin. If it were just a bracket I might pop for it, as is I'll just leave those in the 5,1 and grab stuff off them on the rare occasion I need them.
 

CrysisDeu

macrumors 6502
Sep 16, 2018
407
584
Don't forget it's also rugged and elegant and easy to set up.
Apple reserved the space and the ports to mount this exact third-party HDD cage, how convenient.
Why doesn't Apple sell it as an official add-on, or just include it in the case?
 

th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
813
477
Apple reserved the space and the ports to mount this exact third-party HDD cage, how convenient.
Why doesn't Apple sell it as an official add-on, or just include it in the case?

I think since nothing about this system seems to make much sense anyway, they sat down and decided to handle it this way - for consistency's sake.

Be glad these don't require a mandatory purchase of a set of their wheels to go along with. ;)
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,171
3,784
Apple reserved the space and the ports to mount this exact third-party HDD cage, how convenient.
Why doesn't Apple sell it as an official add-on, or just include it in the case?

IMHO , because the ‘left over’ space they allocated isn’t a great place to put drives. However , some customers said that the world would end if there wasn’t and internal HDD so they have left it entirely as solely a user driven option . If drives die quicker ... Apple didn’t recommend it as a primary option .
APFS doesn’t work well ... didn’t recommend HDDs for that either .

The design of the Mac Pro does not suggest that this was a designed for space . It is downstream of the CPU thermal exhaust where the weren’t keen to put anything strategic there anyway . It looks like a “what else could we stick in there “ design result .
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Can you put a Superdrive in it? Because I'm sure most people still want a Superdrive.

No. It is an internal only drive cage. it is not a sneaker net drive solution. ( go to post #3 above and look. There is an picture of one installed . )
 
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AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
The design of the Mac Pro does not suggest that this was a designed for space . It is downstream of the CPU thermal exhaust where the weren’t keen to put anything strategic there anyway .
I'd assume that Apple's engineers know what they are doing. Spinners are fine at up to 60°C - and the CPU exhaust will be far less than that.
 

konqerror

macrumors 68020
Dec 31, 2013
2,298
3,700
Promise is using the HDD to drive the price much higher price point. An "enterprise" NAS 8TB drive is going to run around $250-350 . Subtract that (especially at the upper end of that range ) from the $399 here and get a decent price for a bracket.

That's an assumption. When we ordered Dells and Lenovo workstations, they shipped low-end "Green" drives. And the Lenovo upgrade kit, which included the other drive sleds and 4-slot backplane (which also supports U.2), is $48, direct.
 

Slash-2CPU

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 14, 2016
404
267
There’s really not much at all in the way of effective bulk storage in it.
$400 to hold 2 drives or $2300 to hold 4. Again, you get 4x8TB drives, but even if it is enterprise stuff, that’s $1k of commodity drives. It also costs you PCIe slot(s).

$1k of drives, $300 RAID controller, other $1k?

The trash can was disliked because you couldn’t fit drives in it. Now you can physically do it, but it’ll cost total ($2300+$400) same as a decent 6-bay external TB3 enclosure and 48TB of “enterprise” storage($2700). You get 40TB I’d maybe enterprise drives and one of the drives isn’t addressable by the raid controller.

Yep. Definitely waiting for aftermarket options. Hopefully Sonnet will have one for $100. I mean, why wouldn’t they? $10 of aluminum and $15 of maybe custom cables, sell it for $100.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,171
3,784
That's an assumption. When we ordered Dells and Lenovo workstations, they shipped low-end "Green" drives. And the Lenovo upgrade kit, which included the other drive sleds and 4-slot backplane (which also supports U.2), is $48, direct.

Drive list from Promise a couple years back (2017) for R4/R6 products.

https://www.promise.com/DownloadFile.aspx?DownloadFileUID=4705

There are no 'green' drives there. A Barracuda, but even that at 8TB is still around $150+ which shaves about half the price off the bracket. Promise doesn't really have a track record of sending out cheap green drives for storage subsystems.

There is a product page finally at Promise.

https://www.promise.com/Products/Pegasus/R4i-J2i

What they are shipping are pre-formatted HFS+ drives. Most generic disk drives come blank ( and usually untested. )

The R4i compatibility list (off of downloads for the product page ) includes a video disk (Toshiba MD06ACA800V )

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/us/product/storage-products/specialty/md06acaxxxv.html

and an Enterprise Disk ( Toshiba MG06ACA800E )

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com...roducts/enterprise-hdd/mg06acaxxxx.html?sug=1

So Promise has limited compatibility list for the R4i but won't ship any product with what is on their own list. Who is making the leap of assumptions here is pretty clear.
 

davidec

macrumors 6502
Jan 31, 2008
423
442
Any idea of whether we can add a 2.5 SSD to the spare slot of the Pegasus J2i? And if so do we get SATAIII 6G Speeds?
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,171
3,784
I'd assume that Apple's engineers know what they are doing. Spinners are fine at up to 60°C - and the CPU exhaust will be far less than that.

Yeah sure. No thermal problems at all with the MBP 15" last year.

"... For (device internal) temperatures below 50C, errors tend to grow linearly with temperature, rather than exponentially, as existing models suggest. ..."
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~gamvrosi/assets/tr_sigmetrics12.pdf

I'm not saying they will instantly fry but it is higher odds of failure. You don't get the same lifecycle if you operate the devices at 40c as you would at 60c. ( actually in study above can see some drives start to drop in performance before even get to the rated limits. ) . Fantastically better? No. But better. Is it going to be low enough increase to be 'acceptable losses'.... it is not Apple's data. They probably have a higher risk tolerance than you do if your data is valuable.

A flat failure rate over the whole entire manufacturer specified temperature range, that's hooey. The extremes on both ends are typically higher.
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Any idea of whether we can add a 2.5 SSD to the spare slot of the Pegasus J2i? And if so do we get SATAIII 6G Speeds?

There are 2.5" to 3.5" adapters out there. The SATA power cables don't really care. The bracket doesn't care about an adapter.

Yes, it should be SATA III. The PCH chipset in the new Mac Pro isn't entirely antiquated as the one in the Mac Pro 5,1 models. The T2 is on the same chipset. So are probably the 10GbE. if run all concurrently may get some incrementally lower throughput, but when things are quiet elsewhere yes.
 
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Slash-2CPU

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 14, 2016
404
267
The bulk storage on this sucker is PCIe cards that hold NVMe drives...

The REALLY bulk storage is many-bay Thunderbolt 3 and NAS options...

This is a super-high end workstation - the need to stick a couple of spinners in it was not a primary design consideration.

You are probably correct. Fast forward 24-36 months, and likely we’ll have 8TB m.2 drives available while 4TB m.2 will be under $300, maybe even close to $200.

If it supports lane bifurcation, then we can use the crazy cheap x16 to 4 m.2 x4 adapters.

Currently, I have 16TB of SATA SSD’s as storage and 1TB of NVMe as working with another 45TB of NAS that’s basically cold storage. Not too far off from 16TB of NVMe being affordable.

Was hoping to have a clean, not insanely expensive way to move my SATA SSD’s over. I do have two of the Sonnet SATA Pro cards, and will use them. I’ll never use the platters that come in the Promise boxes. They are worthless to me.
 
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bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,302
2,677
I do not expect the cheap NVMe adapters you work. Sonnet M.2 4x4 (advertised to work) or High Point are likely the best options right now. Just pay attention to the blade restrictions if you pickup a Sonnet.
 
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