Resolved 400k internal drive problems: F0064 error code

[CrazyWolf]

I've done some looking into this, and I was just wondering if this means there is a problem with the logic board, or if there is still some way to get this drive up and running before I have to start looking for a replacement.

I am refurbishing a 512k and would like to keep the original drive with it if at all possible.

Thanks!

 

[MacTech68]

As you're probably aware, the error code is "Couldn't Read System File into Memory"

There are two possibilities here.

Either, the system version on the floppy is too new for the machine (ROMs on the motherboard may be the old 64K originals), OR the floppy drive has a fault of some kind, OR the floppy disk/data therein is damaged/corrupted.

Depending on whether you have an 800K floppy or 400K floppy drive should dictate which ROMs you should have, and then what format the disk should be.

Check what version of ROMs you have on the motherboard. The two chips will have a 342-xxxx number on them.

"ROM-LO" is "342-0221-B"
"ROM-HI" is "342-0220-B"

Note that the "-B" ROMs must be used with the Sony OA-D34V-22 or OA-D34V-02 drive. Earlier "-A" ROMs are only compatible with the "OA-D34V" drive. This was due to a stepper motor upgrade on the newer drives that the old ROMs couldn't handle. You can use the updated ROMs (-B version) with both the older or newer drives - it's aware of both.

----Post-script - I think that needs a little editing but the text is correct.

ROMs WITHOUT a "-A" or "-B" are the earliest revision of these ROMs and support only OA-D34V 400K drives.

IIRC, 800K drives require 342-0341-X & 342-0342-X ROMs. The "-X" revisions must not be mixed. The last pairing is:

"ROM-LO" is "342-0342-B"
"ROM-HI" is "342-0341-C"

Earlier combinations that work are:

"ROM-LO" is "342-0342-A" AND,
"ROM-HI" is "342-0341-A" OR "342-0341-B"

What model of floppy drive do you have? (A pic of the drive with it's model number will easily identify which drive you actually have).

Also note that 800K drives model MFD-51W-03 with the red on silver model label must use a floppy cable with a yellow Pin 1 stripe (or a red stripe with a wire in the ribbon cable partially cut out. The other models ("MFD-51W" and "51W-10") with black on silver model labels use the red stripe cable with all wires intact.

Confused much? Once you get your head around it, it's fairly easy - sort of. 😵 😉

 

[CrazyWolf]

Thanks for the reply MacTech68, I probably should have explained it better, didn't realize how ambiguous I was being. Here's a little more detail on the problem.

- The drive is a 400k, and the disk works properly in my 400k external on the same comp, so it's not the disk or the system files.

- The drive USED to work about 3 years ago, although it had problems ejecting at the time. When the diskette is inserted and drive attempts to read it, kinda makes irregular sounding noises, nothing too obnoxious, not the "click of death" either.

- I had found some resources online suggesting that perhaps I need to adjust the read/write head adjustment screws, or that possibly the logic board needs to be replaced.

Here is that link:
http://lowendmac.com/tech/after.html

Sounds kinda like my problem, however, the article does not mention the error code that I am getting.

Also acquired yesterday a Macintosh SE in fairly good shape with a 20MB HD internal that doesn't boot and light just blinks. I will create a post for that when the time comes, I reckon LOL

I was just wondering if anybody else had encountered this particular problem, and if you all had any suggestions what I might do to complete this restoration.

I will try to get some photos of the drive up after noon today, and a video of it attempting to read the diskette to shed a little more light on the issue. I know that the 400k drives are increasingly rare and would like to keep this one going.

Thanks for the help, I am a total HACK at this Macintosh stuff, it's all new to me and I am driving with my eyes closed.

 

[CrazyWolf]

So the side of the drive says OA-D34V-22

ROMS on Motherboard:
Hi = 342-0220-B
Lo = 342-0221-B

 

[CrazyWolf]

Link to a video of the machine attempting to boot from a known working diskette.

Same deal but with case off. Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if the diskette is even spinning... doesn't look like it.

 

[MacTech68]

OK, the ROM and drive numbers look fine.

I'm going to say that you should try another boot disk and check the head is clean.

I don't recommend adjusting the the radial alignment, as suggested by the article you linked to, unless we exhaust every other avenue first.

If you lift the head pressure pad up about 15 degrees - no more or you will stretch the spring - and check the head. It should be a nice shiny white color with just a thin black line across the middle. If you see a blob or irregular shape, you'll need to clean that first.

You really should remove, clean and lubricate the eject mechanism. I'm concerned that trying to insert disks whilst the eject cage is in the lowered position could damage the head and/or the floppy disk media. In the mean time, use the large flange at the front right and push it back which is the manual eject. You may need to hold at that position for the mechanism to return to a fully ejected position.

The other thing you could try is to check that the stepper motor isn't jammed. Using your smallest finger, rotate the worm drive shaft annotated in the pic below. Looking at the photo, rotate the bottom towards you, and the head should move to the right. When you apply power to the drive, it should move the head back to the left.

 

[CrazyWolf]

Thanks a bunch man! You are a true hero for helping me out, I really don't know anything about these Macs. I will give this a shot later today. I did check the read head very carefully and it looks pretty good, I wouldn't say it's white but it's off white and looks nice and clean.

Also noticed you are in Australia. Went there in 2008 when I was on leave from Afghanistan to visit my buddy who moved to Melbourne. He is now in the Australian army and calls me "mate". You guys have a beautiful country, I had the time of my life, ate some kangaroo, went surfing, partied with your lovely womenfolk and all that good stuff. But speaking with the locals made me question whether or not I truly understood the english language! LOLZ

Peace.

 

[MacTech68]

Thanks a bunch man! You are a true hero for helping me out, I really don't know anything about these Macs. I will give this a shot later today. I did check the read head very carefully and it looks pretty good, I wouldn't say it's white but it's off white and looks nice and clean.

Also noticed you are in Australia. Went there in 2008 when I was on leave from Afghanistan to visit my buddy who moved to Melbourne. He is now in the Australian army and calls me "mate". You guys have a beautiful country, I had the time of my life, ate some kangaroo, went surfing, partied with your lovely womenfolk and all that good stuff. But speaking with the locals made me question whether or not I truly understood the english language! LOLZ

Peace.

Don't worry. There are differences in some words and phrases from East to West coast here! None that I can mention without risking being reported! 😉

Oh, you might like this for a little help cleaning the eject mechanism:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6j6P7lBWw-BNHQ4dXRYZkFGdzQ/edit?pli=1

 

[CrazyWolf]

Well, bad news.

Stepper motor is not jammed as it moved the head to the rear of the drive when I fired it up. Still got the same exact problem. Was unable to get the disk carriage to eject other than manually.

Adjusted the head height, still same problem.

So now I suppose the logic board is the problem. Is there anything else I can try?

 

[CrazyWolf]

Ok I do have an internal 800k that is verified working as I've used it in another machine, a Macintosh SE. I'm sure that my 512k is NOT upgraded ROM but I am currently looking into this... I'm thinking maybe I can swap the ROM from the SE into the 512K and maybe that will work.

I will post my findings as I know the 400k drives are increasingly rare and this makes refurbishment a difficult task when there are so many 800k's still out there.

 

[CrazyWolf]

So I attempted to slap in the 800K drive it does not work in the 512K. The model is M0001W type for any who are attempting this repair for themselves.

Now I will be looking into possible ROM upgrades to get this online.

 

[maczo]

I dont't think that your 512K ROM is broken. Have you tried installing the external 400K drive inside the Mac?

 

[Bloxin]

As you're probably aware, the error code is "Couldn't Read System File into Memory"

There are two possibilities here.

Either, the system version on the floppy is too new for the machine (ROMs on the motherboard may be the old 64K originals), OR the floppy drive has a fault of some kind, OR the floppy disk/data therein is damaged/corrupted.

Depending on whether you have an 800K floppy or 400K floppy drive should dictate which ROMs you should have, and then what format the disk should be.

Check what version of ROMs you have on the motherboard. The two chips will have a 342-xxxx number on them.

"ROM-LO" is "342-0221-B"
"ROM-HI" is "342-0220-B"

Note that the "-B" ROMs must be used with the Sony OA-D34V-22 or OA-D34V-02 drive. Earlier "-A" ROMs are only compatible with the "OA-D34V" drive. This was due to a stepper motor upgrade on the newer drives that the old ROMs couldn't handle. You can use the updated ROMs (-B version) with both the older or newer drives - it's aware of both.

----Post-script - I think that needs a little editing but the text is correct.

ROMs WITHOUT a "-A" or "-B" are the earliest revision of these ROMs and support only OA-D34V 400K drives.

IIRC, 800K drives require 342-0341-X & 342-0342-X ROMs. The "-X" revisions must not be mixed. The last pairing is:

"ROM-LO" is "342-0342-B"
"ROM-HI" is "342-0341-C"

Earlier combinations that work are:

"ROM-LO" is "342-0342-A" AND,
"ROM-HI" is "342-0341-A" OR "342-0341-B"

What model of floppy drive do you have? (A pic of the drive with it's model number will easily identify which drive you actually have).

Also note that 800K drives model MFD-51W-03 with the red on silver model label must use a floppy cable with a yellow Pin 1 stripe (or a red stripe with a wire in the ribbon cable partially cut out. The other models ("MFD-51W" and "51W-10") with black on silver model labels use the red stripe cable with all wires intact.

Confused much? Once you get your head around it, it's fairly easy - sort of. 😵 😉

[doublepost=1509658854][/doublepost]Hi, Can you help me ? I just got a Macintosh 128K and when i insert the system disk i get a sad mac with error code 0F0064. Do you think the sony disk drive is not compatible with the roms ?

Here is my mac hardware info:

ROM HI: 342-0220-A
ROM LOW: 342-0221-A
SONY Disk Drive: OA-D34V-22 (July 1984)

 

[MacTech68]

[doublepost=1509658854][/doublepost]Hi, Can you help me ? I just got a Macintosh 128K and when i insert the system disk i get a sad mac with error code 0F0064. Do you think the sony disk drive is not compatible with the roms ?

Here is my mac hardware info:

ROM HI: 342-0220-A
ROM LOW: 342-0221-A
SONY Disk Drive: OA-D34V-22 (July 1984)

All I can say at this point is that Apple's old service documentation strictly notes that a -22 drive must use the "-B" ROMs. NOTE that I've never found out what the symptoms of using an "UN-recommended" combination of ROMs and 400K drive models actually is.

However, there are other things that can and should be checked.

Checking the +5 volt rail is a start. Adjust to within + or - 0.5 volts. Also check the +12volt rail.

Also, the floppy disk you are using should be in the old/original 400k MFS format for those ROMs.

 

[Bloxin]

All I can say at this point is that Apple's old service documentation strictly notes that a -22 drive must use the "-B" ROMs. NOTE that I've never found out what the symptoms of using an "UN-recommended" combination of ROMs and 400K drive models actually is.

However, there are other things that can and should be checked.

Checking the +5 volt rail is a start. Adjust to within + or - 0.5 volts. Also check the +12volt rail.

Also, the floppy disk you are using should be in the old/original 400k MFS format for those ROMs.

How do i check the +5 volt rail and all that ?
[doublepost=1509766755][/doublepost]

All I can say at this point is that Apple's old service documentation strictly notes that a -22 drive must use the "-B" ROMs. NOTE that I've never found out what the symptoms of using an "UN-recommended" combination of ROMs and 400K drive models actually is.

However, there are other things that can and should be checked.

Checking the +5 volt rail is a start. Adjust to within + or - 0.5 volts. Also check the +12volt rail.

Also, the floppy disk you are using should be in the old/original 400k MFS format for those ROMs.

I noticed that when i press the interupt button and the memory test starts it never finishes. It just stays there showing the sad mac face with code 0F000D. What do you think this means ? Can the logic board be damaged ? Or a rom ?

 

[MacTech68]

How do i check the +5 volt rail and all that ?
[doublepost=1509766755][/doublepost]

I noticed that when i press the interupt button and the memory test starts it never finishes. It just stays there showing the sad mac face with code 0F000D. What do you think this means ? Can the logic board be damaged ? Or a rom ?

You can check the voltages from the floppy port. See Section 5.1 (bottom of page 8) here:

http://www.ccadams.org/se/classicmac2.pdf

That particular guide is a wealth of information, well worth a read.

The behavior you observe with the interrupt button is normal and no cause for concern.

 

[e2j]

As you're probably aware, the error code is "Couldn't Read System File into Memory"

There are two possibilities here.

Either, the system version on the floppy is too new for the machine (ROMs on the motherboard may be the old 64K originals), OR the floppy drive has a fault of some kind, OR the floppy disk/data therein is damaged/corrupted.

Depending on whether you have an 800K floppy or 400K floppy drive should dictate which ROMs you should have, and then what format the disk should be.

Check what version of ROMs you have on the motherboard. The two chips will have a 342-xxxx number on them.

"ROM-LO" is "342-0221-B"
"ROM-HI" is "342-0220-B"

Note that the "-B" ROMs must be used with the Sony OA-D34V-22 or OA-D34V-02 drive. Earlier "-A" ROMs are only compatible with the "OA-D34V" drive. This was due to a stepper motor upgrade on the newer drives that the old ROMs couldn't handle. You can use the updated ROMs (-B version) with both the older or newer drives - it's aware of both.

----Post-script - I think that needs a little editing but the text is correct.

ROMs WITHOUT a "-A" or "-B" are the earliest revision of these ROMs and support only OA-D34V 400K drives.

IIRC, 800K drives require 342-0341-X & 342-0342-X ROMs. The "-X" revisions must not be mixed. The last pairing is:

"ROM-LO" is "342-0342-B"
"ROM-HI" is "342-0341-C"

Earlier combinations that work are:

"ROM-LO" is "342-0342-A" AND,
"ROM-HI" is "342-0341-A" OR "342-0341-B"

What model of floppy drive do you have? (A pic of the drive with it's model number will easily identify which drive you actually have).

Also note that 800K drives model MFD-51W-03 with the red on silver model label must use a floppy cable with a yellow Pin 1 stripe (or a red stripe with a wire in the ribbon cable partially cut out. The other models ("MFD-51W" and "51W-10") with black on silver model labels use the red stripe cable with all wires intact.

Confused much? Once you get your head around it, it's fairly easy - sort of. 😵 😉

Trying to get a very early (Dec 1983) Mac 128 working but keep getting 0F0064 errors. Have tried both -A and -B ROMs. Don't see any dash number on floppy drive. Have cleaned read head and repeatedly running a disk cleaner disk has extended the running time before the disk ejects with the 0F0064 error.

Bought a working Mac Plus but willing to sacrifice it to get the original Mac working. Can the floppy from the Mac Plus be used as a 400K drive in a Mac 128?

 

[MacTech68]

Trying to get a very early (Dec 1983) Mac 128 working but keep getting 0F0064 errors. Have tried both -A and -B ROMs. Don't see any dash number on floppy drive. Have cleaned read head and repeatedly running a disk cleaner disk has extended the running time before the disk ejects with the 0F0064 error.

Bought a working Mac Plus but willing to sacrifice it to get the original Mac working. Can the floppy from the Mac Plus be used as a 400K drive in a Mac 128?

I would suggest:

trying a different boot floppy from a different source

Manually moving the head to the centre hub and applying power to ensure the head assembly moves smoothly (no slowness or momentary jams)

Check the 5volt rail

Ensure the drive is changing it's rotational speed whilst it's attempting to boot. The 400k rotates at 4 different speeds - again, a smooth sound is desirable.

As for using an 800k - I can't recall but I would assume it won't work 100%.

 

[defjam]

Coming to this a little late but wanted to mention this for people who may come across this in the future.

Something I did not see specifically called out (but casually mentioned in post number six): Make certain the pressure pad is present and in good condition. I was working on a Mac 128K today which was displaying this error code. Upon inspection I noticed it is lacking the pressure pad. The lack of this pad prevents the disk from reliably making contact with the read / write head.

Pics of the drive and the missing pad (i.e. this drive is missing the pressure pad which appears to be in place in the picture found in post number six):

This is a side picture of the drive. I mentioned this because even though the pressure pad was mentioned it wasn't specifically called out as something to check.

 

[DaNDeE_OCC]

Good evening. The 128k Mac in our exhibition got jolted due to a failing stepdown converter (we have 220V over here in Germany) and took out the analog board. We replacef it with another one, and while we were at it, tried to fix the non working drive. We got the mechanics cleaned and all parts are moving now. First we thought we lost that little tip that presses the media against the read/write head but luckily found it.

The problem we have now is that the head drives all the way up to the front (away from the lightsensor) and kerps banging against thr front, even after ejecting the disk. Couldn‘t find any sort of switch or trigger on this end that might tell it to stop, so I guess some cap or IC failed that does the initial procedure. Please take a look at the video:

The ROMs on the board are -B and the drive is an Sony OA-D34V-22.
Any ideas?

Cheers,
Falk
[automerge]1588362690[/automerge]

 

[MacTech68]

Did you adjust the +5volt rail ?

Try cleaning out the track zero optical sensor. Forced air and a brush will help. Do not undo or loosen the screw that attaches the sensor to the chassis or the screws holding the stepper motor.

My thoughts are that the drive is attempting to move the head forward, expecting the track zero sensor to change state, at which point it reverses the direction and stops when the sensor is interrupted again (effectively a 'track zero reset').

If that doesn't fix it, other than a faulty drive, you may have a bad filter on the mother board's floppy port.

 

[DaNDeE_OCC]

Hey MacTech.

Thank for you quick reply. Will check this on the next fix-it-try. 😉 Meanwhile a friend pointed me at this:

Vintage Mac 400K Floppy Drive Repeating Click of Death - Low End Mac

2001 – Packaged in a plain beige case with a single DA-15 connector, this single-sided 400K floppy drive (model #M130) works with early Macintosh computers. The “Click of Death” likely occurs on drives that have not been adequately dusted or as a secondary result of restoration by the liberal...

lowendmac.com

Which basically describes what you have said above. We could not warp our heads around the sensor working reverse and being on the "wrong" side of the rail. 😉 I'll keep you posted.
Thanks.

 

[MacTech68]

My only problem is with loosening the screw for the track zero sensor.

Re-fitting the sensor can be a pain (without a CRO and alignment disk) since track spacing is 0.1875mm

Try to clean the sensor without removal.

 

[mxrider88]

Hello everyone!

I just picked up two macintosh, a 128k and a plus.
They both turn on but the 128k after the start chime makes a high pitch sound, I think it’s the flyback transformer. On the display there are horizontal lines and they kind of disappear if I turn the brightness down a bit.
The Mac boots from an external device (non floppy, a floppy emulator) but it won’t boot from floppy giving error 0f004 and a sad Mac.

The idea would be to use the analog board of the Mac plus, is it exactly the same board and then try to work out why it doesn’t boot from floppy.

are the two boards exactly the same? Someone in the past already messed around with the capacitors on both the boards I believe.
I just would like to restore the 128k to its best and original state, happy to sacrifice the plus if I have to.

A lot of questions I know but if someone could help it would be great.
Thanks!

 

[MacTech68]

Yes, the analog boards from a 128K, 512K, 512Ke and Plus are interchangeable.

The 128K motherboard can easily be put into the MacPlus chassis. You may need to check the +5volt rail adjustment when you swap boards.

Test initially with floppy drive (emulator), mouse and keyboard disconnected to minimize other causes.