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Leopard on non apple hardware

M

M.Ford

macrumors member
Original poster
Feb 28, 2008
34
0
All,

This is my first post and a chance to become another apple user. What I am not looking for is not a flame war but honest answers to honest questions. What I believe is that you get the right tool for the job and am not a fanboi for anyone. Sorry for the odd introduction but I have this impression that Apple folks are all fanbois though I really want to be wrong. That said, and I am sorry if I offended anyone and here is the question

I am considering an Apple purchase. Currently I have a home built PC running a dual boot Vista/XP install. I have been building PCs for about a decade. Generally, my time on the computer is spent with surfing, bills and some games. I am considering an Apple to replace my desktop because it is time for an upgrade. I have heard that you might be able to get OS X installed on non Apple desktops and I am looking for more information around this. The point is that I could try Apple or without paying at least $500 for a mini. Has anyone tried this? If I could do it and decided that I liked OS X I would actually buy a Mac.

Thanks.
 
Hmm, you can, but I'm not sure how.

Most sites discussing this also give links to pirate OS X, which we don't support here so I can't give you any links.

Personally I don't see an issue with what you are doing, as long as you buy a retail copy of the OS.
 
google : OX X86 project

be aware i've heard it's EXTREMELY buggy, not put out or supported by apple in the slightest
 
It is possible but (as stated) is also a license violation.

As a side note I did try this out at one point to answer similar questions but found that the experience wasn't that great and bought a mac mini instead. Basically even if you do try it out it wont really be a motivating factor to get a mac IMO.

Get down to an Apple store if you can - pull up a chair and play away.
 
Possible, but you're breaking Apple's EULA. You seem like a tech savvy guy, just google it and you'll find the instructions. You probably won't like running Leopard on non apple hardware tho, it'll be quite buggy.
 
Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware is a violation of the Software License Agreement that comes with Mac OS X.
You'll not get too much traction investigating circumventing that here.

M.Ford said:
I have this impression that Apple folks are all fanbois though I really want to be wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm curious where you got this 'impression' from?
 
FWIW This is arn (the site owners) view on this issue.

arn said:
These issues have been revisited lately, and the decision has been to not police EULA violations specifically. EULA agreements are (theoretically) between the end user and the company. I don't see why MacRumors should be involved.

The problem with hackintosh talk is that historically it's been hand-in-hand with Mac OS X piracy. Frequently links and sites that promote it also link directly to or provide other instructions on how to illegally obtain Mac OS X. This blurry line has been why hackintosh discussion tends to get shut down.

The MacRumors culture also tends to frown upon the EULA violation that is the installation of Mac OS X on non Apple hardware. As a result, threads frequently get derailed when this discussion arisies, again causing threads to get closed

iPhone and iPod touch hacking do fall under the EULA violation, but is not illegal, in the usual sense of the word. There are also many legal 3rd party applications that can be installed with the hacking procedure. However, downloading copyrighted Apple applications (such as Mail, Maps etc...) is illegal and we should not allow links to those downloads to persist.

Hope that clarifies.

arn
Click to expand...
 
First off, thanks a lot for the reasonable responses. I have read too many flame wars and I have not had enough experience with reasonable folks. Just because I do not subscribe to the Apple is everything mentality I should not be chastised. Anyway, I am glad that I am wrong here. Thanks folks.

I am less worried about the EULA violation here. I would obtain the copy through legal means. I just want to play with the OS X without being surrounded with teenagers and the Mac prophets that work the store floor. I have tried to talk to them before about tech topics on PC vs Mac and I lose them. I could talk to a genius but they tend to be swamped so I do not want to interrupt.

There is another concern I have that others might be able to give me advice on, I tend to like to upgrade my system on a yearly basis and for the most part that means switching out some hardware and I am good to go. I am worried that if I were to go with that Mac I would be stuck with the upgrade path of a whole new comp that I don't need. What are your thoughts?
 
M.Ford said:
I am less worried about the EULA violation here. I would obtain the copy through legal means.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you would, but where you install it is another matter. One that I am worried about. ;)

M.Ford said:
There is another concern I have that others might be able to give me advice on, I tend to like to upgrade my system on a yearly basis and for the most part that means switching out some hardware and I am good to go. I am worried that if I were to go with that Mac I would be stuck with the upgrade path of a whole new comp that I don't need. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

This will definitely frustrate you then. Macs aren't component computers, beyond the ultra bare-bones ram/hd upgrade, you'll find that upgrading it is a difficult task. You can't buy a new logic board, the chances of new intel drop ins functioning are slim, and new video cards are a crap-shoot (generally speaking, a PC version has to be flashed before being used on a Mac, and the Mac version is $$$$).
 
M.Ford said:
I am less worried about the EULA violation here. I would obtain the copy through legal means. I just want to play with the OS X without being surrounded with teenagers and the Mac prophets that work the store floor. I have tried to talk to them before about tech topics on PC vs Mac and I lose them. I could talk to a genius but they tend to be swamped so I do not want to interrupt.
Click to expand...

Since you appear to be a steady windows user you know that "EULA" doesn't necessarily mean "obtaining a legal copy" of the OS. In this respect OSX is not a "licensed" software like Windows is. You know as well as any of us that Microsoft "Licensed" their OS to use on pretty much ANY pc. OSX does not. Meaning even IF you bought a copy of leopard from the Apple store that doesn't mean you can install it on Non-Apple hardware just because you have a legal copy. It just means you pretty much wasted your money.

It's technically supposed to be on APPLE hardware ONLY, regardless if you bought the DVD or not.

There is another concern I have that others might be able to give me advice on, I tend to like to upgrade my system on a yearly basis and for the most part that means switching out some hardware and I am good to go. I am worried that if I were to go with that Mac I would be stuck with the upgrade path of a whole new comp that I don't need. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Mac Pro's offer probably the most aftermarket customization than ANY of the other Macs. The MB line (MB/MBP) only offer the HD I believe. iMacs you are stuck, Mini's your pretty much stuck as well.

Not to get into fanboi status, but people buy the macs because they will work for a long time, even eMacs have a good resale value and will even run a lot of modern software without the need for much or any serious hardware upgrading.

My recommendation is buy an older mac, I've seen good deals on eMacs and even older iMacs as low as 299 for an older powerbook. Some of those will even run Leopard (check compatibility) and you haven't spent a lot money ~$400 and you have a very stable machine and you can easily sell for ~$400 or more on eBay should you choose to buy a newer machine.
 
I appreciate all the advice thus far. I have had an interesting change of mind. I am thinking seriously about a new G4 since I am due for an upgrade anyway. That said, I do have a few questions:

1. I have a HD vidcam that uses AVCHD compression. On Windows, that software that can edit that is really crap-tastic. I think that I read that Final Cut can edit it, can iMovie?

2. I priced a G4 and Apple wants ~500 for a 1TB drive. I know that I can get one for less for ~250 on the open market. For Macs, is adding/replacing HDs as easy as it is for PC?

3. As I am a gamer (I can use Bootcamp/Parallels to the games that are not on Mac), is there SLI in the future? I know this requires a Nvidia chipset on the MoBo and I am not happy with the ATI solution (been burned by them too many times).

As always, thanks for entertaining my newbie questions. For me, this is a big decision and is not being taken lightly.
 
1) It'll have to be a GOOD G4. In fact, you'll want something better than a G4 for Final Cut. Get an old G5.

2) On the G4, hard drive installation is practically like a PC. On a G5 or Mac Pro, it's a piece of cake. That is not a lie.

3) You can't run Boot Camp or Parallels on a G4. There is SLI with the 7600 on either the new or old Mac Pro using hacked drivers and only in Windows.

I would NOT get a G4 if you'll be using Final Cut extensively. Even if you'll just be using iMovie, the boost from a G5 or better is powerful.
 
http://forum.insanelymac.com/ check out the tutorials section. Pretty much every major motherboard is covered. You might have to sign up to use the search function to make things easier to find since there are a hell of a lot of tutorials.

Also check the hardware compatibility list at http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.5.1

osx86 is actually quite simple and very very reliable. Most people use it as a main OS. Its come a long way since the beginnings back when 10.4 came out. If you have a Core 2 Duo or similair Intel SSE3 processor with an Intel chipset motherboard then its smooth sailing.

If you are unsure about mac then I VERY much recommend doing a "hackintosh" first. It has converted a very large amount of people to making a real mac their next purchase who would have NEVER bought a mac since they were simply just curious, but it also has shown people that OS X might not be for them. Its the best way to give OSX a trial run as a personal computer rather than just a display demo.
 
Peace said:
Installing OSX on non Apple hardware is a no no.Period.No flames just fact.
Click to expand...

as is violating the eula for ipod toches and iphones right but nobody seems to care there for some reason

jeffmc said:
google : OX X86 project

be aware i've heard it's EXTREMELY buggy, not put out or supported by apple in the slightest
Click to expand...

it is not buggy as i have used one in the past at a friends. actually quite stable and impressive to be honest....

however that quote with arn's point of view is from a thread i started asking about the matter and i agree with his points. i just dont like how many members here have no issue violating the iphone's eula but are adament against osx's eula lol
 
M.Ford said:
I appreciate all the advice thus far. I have had an interesting change of mind. I am thinking seriously about a new G4 since I am due for an upgrade anyway. That said, I do have a few questions:

1. I have a HD vidcam that uses AVCHD compression. On Windows, that software that can edit that is really crap-tastic. I think that I read that Final Cut can edit it, can iMovie?

2. I priced a G4 and Apple wants ~500 for a 1TB drive. I know that I can get one for less for ~250 on the open market. For Macs, is adding/replacing HDs as easy as it is for PC?

3. As I am a gamer (I can use Bootcamp/Parallels to the games that are not on Mac), is there SLI in the future? I know this requires a Nvidia chipset on the MoBo and I am not happy with the ATI solution (been burned by them too many times).

As always, thanks for entertaining my newbie questions. For me, this is a big decision and is not being taken lightly.
Click to expand...


I read the posts quickly and you can accomplish everything you asked about
However, do you want a high maintenance system? Just reading the OP i would guess your up for the challenge and would be fine. If so let us know how things turn out.

I'm interested and don't believe in re-inventing the wheel.
 
Well, now I look the fool. When I said G4, I meant a new Mac Pro (doh!). I did go into a store and checked out a Pro. Of course they did have it paired with the 30" display and it seemed to me running Final Cut with aplomb. So, I am really close to making the jump. I am in the process of cataloging the software that I use and seeing if there are Mac versions or replacements. The only thing that I need a Mac version form is the voice software that I use with friends. I use both Ventrilo and Teamspeak. Vent has a Mac version, hooray!, and TS has a beta version for Mac, 1/2 a hooray! :).

As a switcher, assuming that I become one, what are some hints. I am sorry that this topic has grown beyond the Desktop thread it started in :). You folks rock. Anyone have a thought about financial software? I am using MS Money right now and would like to port the data to a native Mac equivalent. Moneydance claims to be able to import Money data

Lastly, I have not heard an answer to the AVCHD in iMovie or Final Cut only.
 
According to Apple's article on the subject, iMovie '08 does support AVCHD and you can guarantee that if iMovie supports it then so will Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro. The link provides a list of the supported camcorders so I'd recommend that you check that yours is on the list. If you want to make damned certain I'd suggest taking it along with you to an Apple Store since they'll be more than happy to let you try it out "for real".

With respect to tips on the subject, as a switcher from a few years ago I can recommend picking up a copy of David Pogue's "Missing Manual" books. I did this before switching and they gave me a good insight into how a Mac works and, more importantly, how they differ from a Windows PC for tasks. Currently he produces 2 books on the subject - a complete OS X Leopard Missing Manual and a smaller Switching To OS X Leopard Missing Manual. Both cost peanuts and may give you a good idea of whether the Mac is for you without having to either touch one or run the gauntlet of an Apple Store.

Finally, please never use the term "fanboi" again - it's not a word, no one ever admits to being a zealot even when it's clear they are, and it only ever causes problems.
 
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Kelmon said:
According to Apple's article on the subject, iMovie '08 does support AVCHD and you can guarantee that if iMovie supports it then so will Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro. The link provides a list of the supported camcorders so I'd recommend that you check that yours is on the list. If you want to make damned certain I'd suggest taking it along with you to an Apple Store since they'll be more than happy to let you try it out "for real".

With respect to tips on the subject, as a switcher from a few years ago I can recommend picking up a copy of David Pogue's "Missing Manual" books. I did this before switching and they gave me a good insight into how a Mac works and, more importantly, how they differ from a Windows PC for tasks. Currently he produces 2 books on the subject - a complete OS X Leopard Missing Manual and a smaller Switching To OS X Leopard Missing Manual. Both cost peanuts and may give you a good idea of whether the Mac is for you without having to either touch one or run the gauntlet of an Apple Store.

Finally, please never use the term "fanboi" again - it's not a word, no one ever admits to being a zealot even when it's clear they are, and it only ever causes problems.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information about iMovie. I will look into it.

About the use of fanboi, I wont use the word again. To me it is a negative and sums up how I feel about the folks that, when questioned about why they like Mac, they get all read in the face as if you stole one of their children. The people that seem to be into Macs because they want to hate MS. All the responses from this forum has been great and I would never use that term for you guys. I do really appreciate it and I have to be honest when I say that you all are the reason that I am thinking about a Mac Pro as seriously as I am. I know that I will have to make some concessions but my hope is that the good is going to outweigh the bad in the end. I am in the process of determining the software that I use on a daily basis and seeing if there are Mac ports or Mac versions of the software.
 
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Question though...

Is breaking the EULA actually illegal? I THOUGHT that breaking the EULA just basically releases the company from any sort of obligation for support and such to you. I don't think they can actually take you to court because of it...

I would love to see Apple try to take someone to court who bought a legal copy of Leopard and installed it on their own hardware. Even if I'm wrong and it's technically "illegal" I don't see that ever standing.
 
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