To install it on one's "own hardware", one has to change the kernel (for a start), which means you're stealing Apple's intellectual property.
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Leopard on non apple hardware
- Thread starter M.Ford
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It would be if the process to break the EULA would involve an illegal activity such as breaking encryption.
First off, as has been said, to install on a PC is against the EULA. Second, you will get an inferior OS X experience as there will almost certainly be driver issues and probably unexpected crashes, etc. Third, if you want a simple OS X trial, get a mini or iMac off ebay or Apple refurb store. There is no better way to try OS X for your needs than to get actual Apple hardware. Leopard runs very well on G4 1Ghz and up. Installing OS X on a PC is not like popping in a Windows CD and loading up drivers. You get a dirty experience at best.
Paragraph 1 of Apples SLA states that the software is only licensed, not sold, to the end user. The purchaser owns the media on which the Apple Software is recorded but Apple and/or Apples licensor(s) retain ownership of the Apple Software itself.
Paragraph 2 of the SLA states the end user agrees not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so.
BTW, Microsoft uses EULAs while Apple uses SLAs (Software License Agreements).
Paragraph 2 of the SLA states the end user agrees not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so.
BTW, Microsoft uses EULAs while Apple uses SLAs (Software License Agreements).
A lot of stuff in EULAs are not legally sound anyways. There are laws that cancel out a lot of stuff that might be found in them. Nobody really knows what is and what isnt actually legally binding in the apple license. Either way, Apple knows about the project and they regularly keep in contact with groups like InsanelyMac to make sure they stay out of trouble.
And I also find it interesting that people are so concerned with the OSX EULA but think unlocking and jailbreaking your iphone/ipod is so great. When you buy the iphone you are only "allowed" to use it with AT&T, which sounds a lot like when you buy OSX you are only "allowed" to use it on a Mac. Why do people think locking phones to carriers is so bad but locking OS's to computers is so good? Im guessing the one and only reason is that people here have no loyalty to ATT but they have loyalty to Apple, rather than actually considering any real legal or moral obligations.
And I also find it interesting that people are so concerned with the OSX EULA but think unlocking and jailbreaking your iphone/ipod is so great. When you buy the iphone you are only "allowed" to use it with AT&T, which sounds a lot like when you buy OSX you are only "allowed" to use it on a Mac. Why do people think locking phones to carriers is so bad but locking OS's to computers is so good? Im guessing the one and only reason is that people here have no loyalty to ATT but they have loyalty to Apple, rather than actually considering any real legal or moral obligations.
Not anymore. Using darwin they are able to emulate EFI, which allows you to install OS X with the stock kernel and everything else that previously needed to be "hacked." Theres only a couple kexts that need to be editted so you dont get a kernel panic.
My understanding is that you can build a PC that will run OSX but Apple is more then Leopard. I am not at all sure that you would be able to run iWork or iLife. So why not just get the mini, that is how I started.
alright, back to the actual questions at hand....
The OP is a gamer. That's an important aspect to talk about.
I've been a mac gamer forever... even before the intel macs, it was certainly doable.
Lack of upgrades IS an issue though. The mac mini's are not user-serviceable at all.... even the RAM isn't. That said, it's POSSIBLE to do it, but you have to crack open the actual case. I know my father replaced the hard drive in a g4 mac mini so it's doable, but not apple-supported and doesn't involve simply removing a few screws
Macbooks, Macbook Pros, and iMacs - only the RAM is user-serviceable. The rest is. If you're willing to get your hands dirty you could probably switch out hard drives... but processor and graphics cards are pretty much nobody-serviceable.
The mac towers have always been very good (as far as i know) with upgrading. Unfortunately, these days the only towers are the very expensive Mac Pros (unless you're willing to buy an older, used machine).
If you want to game, you can definitely do so with an iMac or macbook pro. Unfortunately (unless things have changed since they first released them), the graphics cards in the Macbook Pros are UNDERclocked because of heat issues. I have a first revision iMac and Macbook Pro with a 2.16 GHz and 2.0 GHz core duo - both have Radeon x1600's with 256 megs of VRAM, but gaming is a little better on the iMac because the graphics card is underclocked in the MBP.
So... if you want to upgrade the graphics card I'm afraid that you can only do so with a Mac Pro : \
It's not the end of the world, but it means that you shouldn't expect to play brand new games with their settings on high.
Since you're switching, you might want to pick up a copy of parallels, fusion, or crossover if you buy a mac. Even if you don't purchase it right away, you know it's always an option.
And there's always bootcamp, which will run almost everything flawlessly, they it requires a restart.
For gaming though, bootcamp's by FAR your best option. Crossover can be decent for gaming too, but not all games run well with it. I had heard that they were coming out with a version of crossover specifically for gaming, but I was unable to find anything about that on their website (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/).
Also, if you don't know by now, apple's RAM is ridiculously expensive. If you want more than the stock amount of RAM with your system I recommend upgrading it yourself afterwards. www.dealram.com is the way to go. (for example, buying a macbook Pro with 4 gigs of ram from apple (instead of the default 2 gigs) is gonna cost you $400. Dealram.com shows name-brand 4 gig kits for less than $100.
And one more thing... if you're a student, make sure you get the student discount on any mac you buy. From the apple store, click on the "Education Store" link on the left side.
The OP is a gamer. That's an important aspect to talk about.
I've been a mac gamer forever... even before the intel macs, it was certainly doable.
Lack of upgrades IS an issue though. The mac mini's are not user-serviceable at all.... even the RAM isn't. That said, it's POSSIBLE to do it, but you have to crack open the actual case. I know my father replaced the hard drive in a g4 mac mini so it's doable, but not apple-supported and doesn't involve simply removing a few screws
Macbooks, Macbook Pros, and iMacs - only the RAM is user-serviceable. The rest is. If you're willing to get your hands dirty you could probably switch out hard drives... but processor and graphics cards are pretty much nobody-serviceable.
The mac towers have always been very good (as far as i know) with upgrading. Unfortunately, these days the only towers are the very expensive Mac Pros (unless you're willing to buy an older, used machine).
If you want to game, you can definitely do so with an iMac or macbook pro. Unfortunately (unless things have changed since they first released them), the graphics cards in the Macbook Pros are UNDERclocked because of heat issues. I have a first revision iMac and Macbook Pro with a 2.16 GHz and 2.0 GHz core duo - both have Radeon x1600's with 256 megs of VRAM, but gaming is a little better on the iMac because the graphics card is underclocked in the MBP.
So... if you want to upgrade the graphics card I'm afraid that you can only do so with a Mac Pro : \
It's not the end of the world, but it means that you shouldn't expect to play brand new games with their settings on high.
Since you're switching, you might want to pick up a copy of parallels, fusion, or crossover if you buy a mac. Even if you don't purchase it right away, you know it's always an option.
And there's always bootcamp, which will run almost everything flawlessly, they it requires a restart.
For gaming though, bootcamp's by FAR your best option. Crossover can be decent for gaming too, but not all games run well with it. I had heard that they were coming out with a version of crossover specifically for gaming, but I was unable to find anything about that on their website (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/).
Also, if you don't know by now, apple's RAM is ridiculously expensive. If you want more than the stock amount of RAM with your system I recommend upgrading it yourself afterwards. www.dealram.com is the way to go. (for example, buying a macbook Pro with 4 gigs of ram from apple (instead of the default 2 gigs) is gonna cost you $400. Dealram.com shows name-brand 4 gig kits for less than $100.
And one more thing... if you're a student, make sure you get the student discount on any mac you buy. From the apple store, click on the "Education Store" link on the left side.
I'm pretty leery about trying to make any Mac a gaming PC. But I guess it depends on how you define gaming PC. If you mean running WoW, then no problemo. If you mean Crysis and games down the road, then meh. You can get a Mac to play current games well enough but they will get outdated and lack of GPU upgrades will frustrate you. I use consoles to game primarily. MMOs like WoW play fine on most Macs/PCs. I would like to try some more cutting edge PC games like Crysis, but it's not worth building a machine just to play them. At least for me.
Finding a replacement for MS Money was the only think that kept my Windows PC from taking the boot. I researched and decided to go with Moneydance myself and I have to say I really like it. Importing your data from MS Money is definitely possible, but it can be a little tricky. After a little trial-and-error I managed to bring everything forward without mistakes. Once you're done the import and get used to the different UI, it's a great piece of software.
Worst case scenario, MS Money will probably run in crossover, fusion, parallels, or bootcamp. But that's sort of the crappy option. Instead, what about these:
Cha-Ching looks like it might be cool (http://www.midnightapps.com/)
I'd also refer you to http://www.gnucash.org/
I'd suggest Quicken, but from the searches I just performed on it, it doesn't sound like people are thrilled with it.
Cybrix mentioned moneydance (http://moneydance.com/)
And of course, what about http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/business_finance/
There's 141 applications listed on that page. You probably don't need that many, so you might want to sort it by "staff pick" or "most popular" (the buttons for sorting are at the top of the page)
alright, back to the actual questions at hand....
The OP is a gamer. That's an important aspect to talk about.
I've been a mac gamer forever... even before the intel macs, it was certainly doable.
Lack of upgrades IS an issue though. The mac mini's are not user-serviceable at all.... even the RAM isn't. That said, it's POSSIBLE to do it, but you have to crack open the actual case. I know my father replaced the hard drive in a g4 mac mini so it's doable, but not apple-supported and doesn't involve simply removing a few screws
Macbooks, Macbook Pros, and iMacs - only the RAM is user-serviceable. The rest is. If you're willing to get your hands dirty you could probably switch out hard drives... but processor and graphics cards are pretty much nobody-serviceable.
The mac towers have always been very good (as far as i know) with upgrading. Unfortunately, these days the only towers are the very expensive Mac Pros (unless you're willing to buy an older, used machine).
If you want to game, you can definitely do so with an iMac or macbook pro. Unfortunately (unless things have changed since they first released them), the graphics cards in the Macbook Pros are UNDERclocked because of heat issues. I have a first revision iMac and Macbook Pro with a 2.16 GHz and 2.0 GHz core duo - both have Radeon x1600's with 256 megs of VRAM, but gaming is a little better on the iMac because the graphics card is underclocked in the MBP.
So... if you want to upgrade the graphics card I'm afraid that you can only do so with a Mac Pro : \
It's not the end of the world, but it means that you shouldn't expect to play brand new games with their settings on high.
Since you're switching, you might want to pick up a copy of parallels, fusion, or crossover if you buy a mac. Even if you don't purchase it right away, you know it's always an option.
And there's always bootcamp, which will run almost everything flawlessly, they it requires a restart.
For gaming though, bootcamp's by FAR your best option. Crossover can be decent for gaming too, but not all games run well with it. I had heard that they were coming out with a version of crossover specifically for gaming, but I was unable to find anything about that on their website (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/).
Also, if you don't know by now, apple's RAM is ridiculously expensive. If you want more than the stock amount of RAM with your system I recommend upgrading it yourself afterwards. www.dealram.com is the way to go. (for example, buying a macbook Pro with 4 gigs of ram from apple (instead of the default 2 gigs) is gonna cost you $400. Dealram.com shows name-brand 4 gig kits for less than $100.
And one more thing... if you're a student, make sure you get the student discount on any mac you buy. From the apple store, click on the "Education Store" link on the left side.
That was a fantastic answer and hit on some points that are important to me. What I am thinking now is that I would do a Mac Pro:
1. Nvidia card (I ill never do ATI, I have been burned by that company too many times),
2. go to a single CPU to save the money knowing that if I need another then I can probably get one and a later date and drop it in.
3. Use only the single drive the comes with the machine. I am not going to spend $500 for a 1TB drive when I can get one for less than half that and install it myself
4. stick with 2gb ram knowing that I can add more myself for far less than having apple do it.
5. try iMovie for my HD camera, it is one the list, and upgrade to FC Express if needed
6. I have a Dell 24" FP already so I imagine that I can just use that. It has both a DVI and a DB15 connection so I should be good there. I have my own MX revolution mouse so I should be good there.
7. The only stand outs that I have to address is the voice chat software and the money software and I think that I have those licked.
I know that I will have to make some concessions going to Mac but I am thinking that the gains will be more than the losses. As I look to my daily life, if I am playing WoW it is on the PC and there is a native version for the Mac and if I am playing anything else, it is usually on a console. I can do bootcamp if I have to play a PC game. The system will be strong enough to reasonably play the current batch of game. Mostly likely, I just will stay in Mac. I did order the two books mentioned for being a switcher and the unwritten manual and am anxiously awaiting their arrival. After 10 years of computer building I am thinking that it might be time to just get something that I don't have to screw with at all.
That is a valid point and certainly my hope too. Once I get through the books I will have a better idea of my direction. I must say, though, that I am getting a bit excited with the future purchase
Well, I am back. I have two final questions for you folks:
1. Has anyone had any experience trasferring HD video from a camera (Panasonic HD-SD5) to a Mac and be able to edit the footage natively (AVCHD compression) in iMovie or do you need Final Cut. I want the transfer to happen as a feed directly from the camera rather than getting a card reader) because I was told that you get more information like shot setting and such from an import rather than a file copy.
2. Can I take a Time Machine backup and restore said backup to a different HD of a different size? ie. the standard Mac Pro has a 7200 RPM 320GB HD and I would want to change it to a 10k spin 160 GB drive for the speed since I will have a SAN for bulk storage.
I had a great experience at an Apple store over the weekend. I needed to talk to someone about my video issues and I ended up getting a trainer who endured all my questions with aplomb. I have been really happy with my experience thus far with the store and you guys. Thanks!
1. Has anyone had any experience trasferring HD video from a camera (Panasonic HD-SD5) to a Mac and be able to edit the footage natively (AVCHD compression) in iMovie or do you need Final Cut. I want the transfer to happen as a feed directly from the camera rather than getting a card reader) because I was told that you get more information like shot setting and such from an import rather than a file copy.
2. Can I take a Time Machine backup and restore said backup to a different HD of a different size? ie. the standard Mac Pro has a 7200 RPM 320GB HD and I would want to change it to a 10k spin 160 GB drive for the speed since I will have a SAN for bulk storage.
I had a great experience at an Apple store over the weekend. I needed to talk to someone about my video issues and I ended up getting a trainer who endured all my questions with aplomb. I have been really happy with my experience thus far with the store and you guys. Thanks!
Hopefully someone with a better understanding of the law can clarify this. I believe it's not technically illegal, as you won't go to criminal court for it. However, if Apple wants, they can still file a lawsuit for using their software in a way that you agreed not to do by buying it. I'm not sure if this is correct, though.
While I cannot answer any of your video editing questions I can say that games like Crysis run great on HIGH setting under Boot Camp (I have the Mac Pro with the 8800 GT card). Games that need a really good GPU do not run well under Parallels as it emulates the video driver (even on a very low GPU intensive game that I tried I got badly corrupted video). I use Parallels for Money 2008 and QuickBooks Pro and am well pleased.
There are programs like Crossover that you can try for 30 days to see if they will run your XP programs.
I was a long time PC user (I have built several "high end" machines) so I know where you are coming from. I just converted to a Mac and have not regretted it one bit (you can see from my signature that I have gone whole hog). The Mac Pro is your best (albeit expensive) bet. If you need a better video card down the road you can always drop a PC video card into Slot 2 that will work with XP in Boot Camp (the new nVidia 9800GX2 with two GPUs under SLI on one card is a beast). Two caveats about that - you need to make sure you don't exceed the total power supply with your two cards (300 watts I believe) and switch your video input on your monitor when you've booted to XP. I thought you stated that you had a Dell FP (which I do) and this has two digital inputs.
Alan
There are programs like Crossover that you can try for 30 days to see if they will run your XP programs.
I was a long time PC user (I have built several "high end" machines) so I know where you are coming from. I just converted to a Mac and have not regretted it one bit (you can see from my signature that I have gone whole hog). The Mac Pro is your best (albeit expensive) bet. If you need a better video card down the road you can always drop a PC video card into Slot 2 that will work with XP in Boot Camp (the new nVidia 9800GX2 with two GPUs under SLI on one card is a beast). Two caveats about that - you need to make sure you don't exceed the total power supply with your two cards (300 watts I believe) and switch your video input on your monitor when you've booted to XP. I thought you stated that you had a Dell FP (which I do) and this has two digital inputs.
Alan
I have not tried to restore to a different harddrive from a time machine backup, but I have heard there are problems. If I am not mistaken, Apple uses the drive information in some way to store your keychain. If you change this drive, the keychain information will become corrupt/invalid.
I recently used the migration assistant to change from a 2.2 to a 2.4 macbook pro and it copied all of the applications, but I had to reregister many of them. I am thinking you will have the same issues changing the hard drive.
I recently used the migration assistant to change from a 2.2 to a 2.4 macbook pro and it copied all of the applications, but I had to reregister many of them. I am thinking you will have the same issues changing the hard drive.
just been looking at the migration assistant in leopard and one of the options for the destination machine is from a time machine backup which suggests the backup could be migrated to another machine or hard drive?
As far as my knowledge goes, you CAN in fact do that... but i've heard its not perfect and it sorta buggy. Like some people have been saying they permissions issues, where finder will copy files rather then move them all the time. Or will ask for your password every time you try to do something.
Also to OP, Im glad this forum (and others) have convinced you to purchase a Mac Pro, I hope you enjoy macs as much as the majority of us do. Remember that ANY questions and problems you can ask us about, and we'll all try to do our best answering them. You can consider that my warm welcome to the mac family
It stands to reason that you would have permission issues just like in any *Nix platform. Unless your users/groups file matches perfectly the owner/permissions will not be 100% correct. In theory, you might be able to do a true copy between the two from another machine or a seperate harddrive, but I can't verify this. I am currently working on this with a bootcamp partition that will not currently boot.
The deed is done
I finally made the move and ordered today. I ordered the Mac Pro and left it basic except for the video card. I went with NVidia because of my disdain for ATI. I am sure that I will have questions and will start new posts in the appropriate forms. Thanks for all your endurance in the persistant questions. I will add updates as I have them. I have grand designs for my office network and will let you all know how that goes. I think that if the Mac Pro works to my liking I will be getting a mac mini for my wife.
I finally made the move and ordered today. I ordered the Mac Pro and left it basic except for the video card. I went with NVidia because of my disdain for ATI. I am sure that I will have questions and will start new posts in the appropriate forms. Thanks for all your endurance in the persistant questions. I will add updates as I have them. I have grand designs for my office network and will let you all know how that goes. I think that if the Mac Pro works to my liking I will be getting a mac mini for my wife.
Congratulations on your decision! I'm sure that the Mac Pro will be an enjoyable experience for you.
Your Dell monitor will make it easy to run both computers. I've been evaluating a Mac mini for almost a year now with a Dell monitor with both DVI and VGA connectors - just need a $10 adapter. Just tap the button to switch between computers.
I use separate wireless keyboards & mice - - Bluetooth - no interference or problems. The Apple aluminum wireless keyboard is a work of art! If you use an Apple mouse it will require a positive attitude on your part because it's so different - but it soon became comfortable for me. No plans to switch to a "standard" mouse.
Check Amazon.com for books by David Pogue - - Mac OS X Leopard Edition and/or Switching to the Mac Leopard Edition. At least one of these is almost essential.
If you are a DOS or Linux command line user, then find out about Terminal. OS X is a beautiful implementaion of standard Unix.
Good luck and have fun!
Your Dell monitor will make it easy to run both computers. I've been evaluating a Mac mini for almost a year now with a Dell monitor with both DVI and VGA connectors - just need a $10 adapter. Just tap the button to switch between computers.
I use separate wireless keyboards & mice - - Bluetooth - no interference or problems. The Apple aluminum wireless keyboard is a work of art! If you use an Apple mouse it will require a positive attitude on your part because it's so different - but it soon became comfortable for me. No plans to switch to a "standard" mouse.
Check Amazon.com for books by David Pogue - - Mac OS X Leopard Edition and/or Switching to the Mac Leopard Edition. At least one of these is almost essential.
If you are a DOS or Linux command line user, then find out about Terminal. OS X is a beautiful implementaion of standard Unix.
Good luck and have fun!
I have both the books already. That helped in the decision. I am not going to use the mouse because I already have a Logitech mx revolution. As for the two machines, I only intend to run the old desktop until I am sure that I have all that I need off it then it will be repurposed as an Ubuntu SAN for general storage and for time machine. Microsoft has a terminal services client for the Mac so I can use that to access the old machine until it gets wiped. Thanks for the well wishing.