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$499 Headless iMac?
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If this doesn't get the marketshare back up, nothing ever will.
I'll be interested to see what it looks like - will the Keynote be webcast live this year? C'mon Apple, show of the strength of your servers by doing a live broadcast.
I'll be interested to see what it looks like - will the Keynote be webcast live this year? C'mon Apple, show of the strength of your servers by doing a live broadcast.
I agree with you on both points. Apple might also be targeting existing Mac users who would use this thing as a miniature server.Littleodie914 said:
Reminds me of my first "true" Mac, an LCII, purchased without a monitor for $1,100 (a DEAL then). Even though I was using a Plus for years, this machine made me the Mac user I am today.
If this is true and comes to pass, I'll order one for my daughter. And I think it could be a real hit. Maybe get some of the mindless masses to get off that PC bandwagon-to-hell. If Apple keeps the "regular" VGA monitor port, we just may see this as the biggest Apple product ever launched, as the folks with dead or dying PC's will seriously consider the Mac. They'll need Appleworks on it, and of course iLife. Forget the upgradeability. Who cares. Maybe Apple's target are those millions who NEVER upgrade. The only thing that I am uncomfortable with is the fact Apple may initially undercut their sale of the higher-end units that generate huge profit. BUT, as we know from history, it's all about market share. Get folks on board, then sooner or later lots of folks will pony up the bucks to get a decked out G5 tower like I did.
It's all good... in the end.
If this is true and comes to pass, I'll order one for my daughter. And I think it could be a real hit. Maybe get some of the mindless masses to get off that PC bandwagon-to-hell. If Apple keeps the "regular" VGA monitor port, we just may see this as the biggest Apple product ever launched, as the folks with dead or dying PC's will seriously consider the Mac. They'll need Appleworks on it, and of course iLife. Forget the upgradeability. Who cares. Maybe Apple's target are those millions who NEVER upgrade. The only thing that I am uncomfortable with is the fact Apple may initially undercut their sale of the higher-end units that generate huge profit. BUT, as we know from history, it's all about market share. Get folks on board, then sooner or later lots of folks will pony up the bucks to get a decked out G5 tower like I did.
It's all good... in the end.
Wouldnt a used powermac be a much better deal? A 1.25 G4 powermac should be a bargain these days and gives you total expansion. Plus you can still make that machine go faster with cpu upgrades. G4s arent any cheaper then G5s and maybe more unless moto cut prices to sell some G4s. Plus you are selling a computer at pod prices??? smells fishy to me.
Either that or Savage S3 integrated graphics. I'm sure there are other integrated graphics chipsets in use - I just don't know their names.Hector said:
It's practically a "loss leader."
While it's probably profitable for Apple to make a headless iMac with technology that is 2-4 years old, the revenue they would make on each machine would probably be small. Unless someone was odd enough to go cheap for this rumored box and splurge for a Cinema Display at $1299 on up, Apple will just score a market share gain rather than real profit. (If you see that guy driving the Maserati with the Toyota Echo engine, tell him about this deal.) This could prove to be a wise ploy in the long run.
The downside I see is if this computer cannibalizes sales from people that might otherwise buy iMacs or iBooks. On the other hand, if it takes off with an unintended audience like people who want to set up render farms, homemade Xgrid-powered supercomputers or ISP's, it could really be a big winner if it is coupled with projected sales to the intended market.
While it's probably profitable for Apple to make a headless iMac with technology that is 2-4 years old, the revenue they would make on each machine would probably be small. Unless someone was odd enough to go cheap for this rumored box and splurge for a Cinema Display at $1299 on up, Apple will just score a market share gain rather than real profit. (If you see that guy driving the Maserati with the Toyota Echo engine, tell him about this deal.) This could prove to be a wise ploy in the long run.
The downside I see is if this computer cannibalizes sales from people that might otherwise buy iMacs or iBooks. On the other hand, if it takes off with an unintended audience like people who want to set up render farms, homemade Xgrid-powered supercomputers or ISP's, it could really be a big winner if it is coupled with projected sales to the intended market.
powermac666 said:
Agreed. I'm a Mac user since... well... let's not go there. LoL I've got a 9600 with a 700 Mhz. G4 upgrade. For the $ spent to upgrade to a newer machine, I'm looking at $500+ for a used G4 733 desktop (either DA or QuickSilver) with no warranty from Apple to speak of. Spec-wise... the used machine isn't much different than this proposed machine, although the processor is 1/2 as fast compared to the proposed new low-cost headless desktop. Graphics-wise... the older machines can still be upgraded with newer 4x AGP cards yet I don't really care because the older system's I/O bottlenecks will likely not handle much more than what is thrown at it via 4x AGP, and I'm not a gamer and it's not going to be CoreImage compatible "in full" (it'll still work, just degraded rather than almost realtime) either-way you look at it.
Processor-wise, you can upgrade the old machines up to comparable to one of these "rumored" new units... but you're looking at probably another $499 on top of the cost of the $500 to obtain the machine. At which point... why not buy the 1.8 Ghz. single-processor G5 which is faster, just as upgradable, and a much better value?!? Anything more... and you're in the market for a new machine anyhow. Used makes very little sense for the total lack of depreciation these units go for.
So I think Apple is looking at the used sector and seeing the same ludicrous insanity I am. They want to increase marketshare, and diminish the bloated values of the older desktops so more "cheaper" hardware is available to more aptly "flood" the market with options. At somepoint the pricetag becomes ridiculous compared to the age of the unit, and Apple has seriously needed to cut this for yeeeeeeeeeeears as resale value on some of the hardware is beyond insane. Releasing a machine like this will cut the costs of the used machines as the market won't be as hot to trot for 3+ year old hardware that's half as fast as new units that sell for significantly less and can be upgraded yearly (get rid of the old, swap in another new unit) for about the cost of a processor upgrade, with all of the $ going into Apple's pocket... vs. Sonnet, Newer, etc.
It hurts the upgrade market, but that's only assuming that Apple's new "headless" system has no bearing on the used hardware market and everything continues to sell for "SIGNIFICANTLY" over-inflated pricetags. If this works out okay... highly upgradable Sawtooth 450 machines will be available for a song, vs. the $300+ we're looking at now. The cost of a 733 Quicksilver or DA G4 733 should drop to below the $499 pricepoint substantially because even though it's more upgradable persay, it requires a significant amount of $ to get it up to equal or surpass the "NEW" Apple unit, making the investment "questionable" at best in terms of value. Why buy a machine for $500 that's 1/2 as fast as a brand new unit with similar specs all around? Why not buy new, get the peace of mind that it's not run for x # of hours (new in box), and help make the market for used machines depreciate so that you could turn around and potentially buy a used G4 to upgrade for another alternative computer and get even more switchers in on ground level with older Mac hardware that's still capable but requires a bit more investment to get up to par? It helps Apple, and Sonnet and Gigapower and OWC and Newer and others will likely reap benefits of it too when a huge influx of cheap old hardware is sitting around that's just waiting to be upgrade?!? That includes us as the consumer, unless you're wanting to extort some poor soul on eBay out of his life savings so you can sell your G4 to buy a new G5. At which point... sorry, your days are numbered. ::fingers crossed, hoping::
This could be another platform for Apple to use ATi's very powerful 9200 or "extreme graphics of the fx5200". was there 1 word on graphics? Steve has been trying to kill off that CRT for years.
was there 1 word on graphics? Steve has been trying to kill off that CRT for years.
I like the idea of this very much. Some of you are complaining about the specs, but come on - it's supposed to be a $499 computer. It's not supposed to be a Powermac.
I'm running a 1.07GHz iBook with 768MB of memory, and even before shoving the extra memory in, it was a solid performer with 10.3.3. This headless iMac would perform well, and for $499 there would finally be a compelling reason for the masses to choose a Mac. I agree that 256MB is a joke in the Powerbooks and iMacs (both in the middle to high end of computers in terms of price), but realistically in a bargain basement computer 256MB is decent.
For those asking for upgradeability, I'm compelled to ask - where are you going to buy a replacement G4 chip that runs faster than the supposed 1.25 GHz? As far as I was aware, you can't just buy G4s and G5s off a shelf like you can with Pentiums and Athlons And if you can get them, would it be cost effective considering you can get the iMac with a G5 processor for $1299?
Fingers crossed here that Think Secret's track record holds up. This would be fantastic.
I'd also have to guess that this is the reason that the 17" displays were phased out. Expect Apple 17" regular (1280x960ish) and widescreen (1440x900) 'iDisplays' in white to come with these for perhaps an extra $399 or so.
Here's hoping the prices outside the US will be more realistic than recently
I'm running a 1.07GHz iBook with 768MB of memory, and even before shoving the extra memory in, it was a solid performer with 10.3.3. This headless iMac would perform well, and for $499 there would finally be a compelling reason for the masses to choose a Mac. I agree that 256MB is a joke in the Powerbooks and iMacs (both in the middle to high end of computers in terms of price), but realistically in a bargain basement computer 256MB is decent.
For those asking for upgradeability, I'm compelled to ask - where are you going to buy a replacement G4 chip that runs faster than the supposed 1.25 GHz? As far as I was aware, you can't just buy G4s and G5s off a shelf like you can with Pentiums and Athlons And if you can get them, would it be cost effective considering you can get the iMac with a G5 processor for $1299?
Fingers crossed here that Think Secret's track record holds up. This would be fantastic.
I'd also have to guess that this is the reason that the 17" displays were phased out. Expect Apple 17" regular (1280x960ish) and widescreen (1440x900) 'iDisplays' in white to come with these for perhaps an extra $399 or so.
Here's hoping the prices outside the US will be more realistic than recently
I think this is what a lot of BMW people initially thought about the Mini Cooper. I was one of the first to get one here. The mechanics and other sales staff shunned them.andrebsd said:
Now look at it more than 2 years (almost 3) later. They still have a backlog to fill.
A machine like this attracts people to the showroom. Gets you to looking at the other models. They would fly off the shelves.
Please Apple. Let this be true.
rdowns said:
Absolutely untrue, I'm sorry to say. History is loaded with corporations that LOST money for years to gain the market share, and it's considered a sound plan. Maybe the biggest example in my lifetime was the influx of Japanese cars in the 80's. (Yeah, I'm real old) They priced them so low a lot of models lost the company money. Today we know why they did it. It's not dumping; it's cutting to the bone but at the same time building a consumer base of users, who later stick with them... and upgrade.
What would be more valuable to Apple, a possible 10-20% market share, or another billion or three in the bank with the same product line? They'll take the market share.
You can get single 1.4,1.5 G4s and they have duallies. So those old old quicksilvers have room to grow in the future and i bet Moto gets the G4 a pinch higher before its over. This is why i say a used powermac is a better deal. This could be a way to get those pod carrying kids into Apples world. Other then games a G4 can do about everything.
(bias quicksilver owner)
(bias quicksilver owner)
Dont Hurt Me said:
Ever price that 1.25 G4? You're looking at a machine that sells in G5 territory in terms of pricings, even on eBay, not counting your friendly refurbishing reseller that'll charge you $1,000 for some of these machines that are over a year old. Try the PowerMac G4 733 Quicksilver. That's over what... 2 years old? It's selling for more than this new "cheap" machine and it's half the freakin' speed! LoL To upgrade it to comparable speedwise... you're dropping another $499 for a 1.25+ G4 card. At which point... as I said earlier with regards to the MDD single-processor 1.2 G4... why not just buy a G5? Upgradability only breeds "value" when it's more cost-effective to upgrade than to buy a new unit in-full. If you don't have an existing unit to upgrade... this new $499 machine is the cat's meow. If you have an existing unit... by all means, upgrade, it's a better value.
Get it?
Apple needs to produce a machine like this to cut the values of "USED" older hardware. At which point... yes I do agree, some of the older hardware might be a better value. I stress "MIGHT" because it would have to likely be circa the same iteration that produced the motherboards for this new headless machine. Even older G4's have bottlenecks that later revision hardware fixed. Buying an old Sawtooth 450 to upgrade to 1.25 Ghz. and a comparable video card might not provide you with any better performance for the significant amount of $ thrown at it than buying the $499 less upgradable unit new in terms of overall "value". In another year when the costs of a processor upgrade for staid old G4 come down... Apple might have a G5 or dual-core G4 or dual-processor G4 in this low-end machine by then. That might be impossible to match with older hardware, unless you have a dual processor machine or buy a used G5 or iMac G5.
Abstract said:
could be worse. would you prefer a G3? i'm rocking a 500mhz and a 600mhz here at home. ANY G4 would make me smile.
PS. i love my g3's.
YES! I will defenately buy one, I've been wanting such a thing for a long time, and I'm sure it will make a LOT of people switch. And it looks like an attractive system for office environments.
I think it will have on board video, just as a lot of other Small Form Factor PC's from Dell, HP etc. have. BUT, they often do have an AGP slot, albeit half height, which is a bit difficult to find high end cards for. I hope Apple will do the same. Maybe it will even have one or two PCI slots. On the other hand, if it doesn't have AGP, I will probably still buy it.
A single G4 is still fast enough for a lot of us, and HD and memory can always be expanded. I wonder: the current displays are maybe a bit too expensive to accompany it. Maybe Apple will add some lower end displays to their line up. And what about styling? If it will be white plastic, then the current styling of their displays doesn't fit.
Anyway, great news and I really hope it's true. I guess we will find out in January?
I think it will have on board video, just as a lot of other Small Form Factor PC's from Dell, HP etc. have. BUT, they often do have an AGP slot, albeit half height, which is a bit difficult to find high end cards for. I hope Apple will do the same. Maybe it will even have one or two PCI slots. On the other hand, if it doesn't have AGP, I will probably still buy it.
A single G4 is still fast enough for a lot of us, and HD and memory can always be expanded. I wonder: the current displays are maybe a bit too expensive to accompany it. Maybe Apple will add some lower end displays to their line up. And what about styling? If it will be white plastic, then the current styling of their displays doesn't fit.
Anyway, great news and I really hope it's true. I guess we will find out in January?
This is nothing as subtle as a halo effect. This is going out into the streets and kidnapping Windows users and forcing them to withdraw $499 from the hole in the wall and frog marching them to the Apple Store.
If this iMac mini/iCentre is for real, it is what I have wanted ever since I can remember forking out 3000 on my 867MHz Powerbook 2 years ago. Almost a headless Powerbook, yeehah. Time to trade in for a slightly more beefy G4 than I have now and actually have enough to put towards a painless upgrade to that juicy lucy 20" Cinema display.
If this iMac mini/iCentre is for real, it is what I have wanted ever since I can remember forking out 3000 on my 867MHz Powerbook 2 years ago. Almost a headless Powerbook, yeehah. Time to trade in for a slightly more beefy G4 than I have now and actually have enough to put towards a painless upgrade to that juicy lucy 20" Cinema display.
thequicksilver said:
www.powerlogix.com
www.sonnettech.com
www.gigadesigns.com
www.fastmac.com
upgrades up to dual 1.73GHz
as a owner of the quicksilver 733 thats been upgraded to a 1.4 i more then get it. But what is more of 5 year old cpu going to do for you that the 733 cant do except better frame rates on a few games?? nothing. I will admit i have not shopped around for used Macs but i would think with a little persistance..................... If Apple resorts to this then its clear to me they have hit a brick wall at IBM and Moto.
No DVD burner? If it can't burn their downloaded movies they won't want to buy it. Apple don't you know all young people are pirates.
Hmmmm, here comes the hardware rumors... Interesting...
They sure skimp on the RAM still. And the G4 isn't exactly the processor I want to see in my "headless" iMac. However, this is supposed to be seen as a "second computer."
Let me upgrade the graphics card, maybe a PCI slot or two, and maybe a processor upgrade. It'd be more like a real barebones computer then.
I'll have to look into getting this Mac and try to replace my Bondi Blue iMac in my room. It's time I retire it.
They sure skimp on the RAM still. And the G4 isn't exactly the processor I want to see in my "headless" iMac. However, this is supposed to be seen as a "second computer."
Let me upgrade the graphics card, maybe a PCI slot or two, and maybe a processor upgrade. It'd be more like a real barebones computer then.
I'll have to look into getting this Mac and try to replace my Bondi Blue iMac in my room. It's time I retire it.
If Apple makes one of these machines it will all be soldered on with no upgrade path at all. count on that. Look at the history and its very clear Apple doesnt want people to upgrade Macs (excluding the powermac ). I guess this would be a good thing for new users but i would like to see a cube reborn and made with "ahem" modern GPUs and CPUs...etc.
Until Apple bumps the RAM in their other computers (particularly the iBook, but also all the others) to 512 MB minimum, this isn't going to happen.applekid said:
This thing will be small enough that there won't be any room for a processor/graphics card upgrade nor any PCI slots.
That's the way I see it; I could be wrong...