Well I am tempted to get 8gb for my Air, but I was just looking at my 2010 iMac and I have almost 4gb free out of 8. Right now I have several basic apps running such as iTunes, outlook, safari, word, etc. Would it run much slower with just 4gb? I could take out the RAM I put in and see, but I doubt it.
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4GB or 8GB of RAM memory
- Thread starter Ollifi
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You need to pay more attention to the threads people, particularly newbies, start in all forums on MR. It is clear most of them have very limited ability to make even simple decisions without starting a thread.Typically if you HAVE to ask you don't need the extra RAM
They way OS X works these days (or windows for that matter), it is not a terrible, terrible thing to see page outs.
It just depends how often and how active they are while you're working.
If you have software running in the background that isn't actually doing anything for long periods of time you probably WANT the OS to page it out to disk so that RAM can be used for disk cache for active tasks.
For example - if i have 16 GB of RAM, a 60 gig iPhoto library that is sitting on a slow disk (or maybe a network share), and have a few apps in the background sitting idle - there may be cases where it is better for my application performance for OS X page them out to disk and use the memory for caching in iPhoto.
Saying simply that "page outs are bad!" isn't quite accurate any more. It's a lot trickier than that, and in some cases (early versions of Lion) a minor tweak to the way the OS decides how and when to page can really screw things up.
Seeing lots of them constantly while you are working is bad yes, but seeing a page out number on activity monitor is not inherently bad these days.
It very much depends what you're doing.
edit:
I'm running Mavericks here, and activity monitor actually no longer has a page-outs counter. It's been replaced with a "memory pressure" graph, which no doubt does some more complex calculations than the basic page out counter (most likely, checking to see how often the same memory pages are paged in and out in a short period of time - as THAT is the metric which really indicates whether your machine is real short on RAM. Its called "page thrashing" and is REALLY bad for performance).
It just depends how often and how active they are while you're working.
If you have software running in the background that isn't actually doing anything for long periods of time you probably WANT the OS to page it out to disk so that RAM can be used for disk cache for active tasks.
For example - if i have 16 GB of RAM, a 60 gig iPhoto library that is sitting on a slow disk (or maybe a network share), and have a few apps in the background sitting idle - there may be cases where it is better for my application performance for OS X page them out to disk and use the memory for caching in iPhoto.
Saying simply that "page outs are bad!" isn't quite accurate any more. It's a lot trickier than that, and in some cases (early versions of Lion) a minor tweak to the way the OS decides how and when to page can really screw things up.
Seeing lots of them constantly while you are working is bad yes, but seeing a page out number on activity monitor is not inherently bad these days.
It very much depends what you're doing.
edit:
I'm running Mavericks here, and activity monitor actually no longer has a page-outs counter. It's been replaced with a "memory pressure" graph, which no doubt does some more complex calculations than the basic page out counter (most likely, checking to see how often the same memory pages are paged in and out in a short period of time - as THAT is the metric which really indicates whether your machine is real short on RAM. Its called "page thrashing" and is REALLY bad for performance).
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^^ that is simply the OS using all the free RAM you have for cache.
If you had 16 GB or 32 GB eventually if you were doing enough disk access it would all become inactive RAM - I've seen something like 13 GB of inactive memory before when running 16 GB, due to some massive amount of disk access I was doing. So, in your case above, you actually have roughly 2 GB of memory "available", just 1.8 is currently cache. Which will be purged if required.
But yes, I would not recommend less than 8 GB of RAM on a new machine, especially if you are running a non-SSD drive.
SSD changes things a bit because the drive pages so fast, but 8 GB is cheap and will reduce the wear on your SSD in addition to being even faster.
Here's my box running Mavericks with 8 GB (one of my 8 GB sticks failed and I've gone back to 8 GB (2x4s) for the time being).
![activitymonitor.png]()
As you can see, the stats in mavericks are a lot more informative with regards to WHAT the memory is actually used for, rather than more vague terms like "inactive"...
If you had 16 GB or 32 GB eventually if you were doing enough disk access it would all become inactive RAM - I've seen something like 13 GB of inactive memory before when running 16 GB, due to some massive amount of disk access I was doing. So, in your case above, you actually have roughly 2 GB of memory "available", just 1.8 is currently cache. Which will be purged if required.
But yes, I would not recommend less than 8 GB of RAM on a new machine, especially if you are running a non-SSD drive.
SSD changes things a bit because the drive pages so fast, but 8 GB is cheap and will reduce the wear on your SSD in addition to being even faster.
Here's my box running Mavericks with 8 GB (one of my 8 GB sticks failed and I've gone back to 8 GB (2x4s) for the time being).
As you can see, the stats in mavericks are a lot more informative with regards to WHAT the memory is actually used for, rather than more vague terms like "inactive"...
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Ah, thank you for the explanation, I was wondering why all of my ram was getting inhaled. It's my first Mac so I am getting a basic feel for the OS other then the times when I use a friends or something else.
Lol...not sure why you quoted me, but I'm assuming its because we agree to a 'T'
Thanks throAU
That's very interesting the way Mavericks is displaying memory and RAM usage. Agreed completely. A much better 'graphic' of how and how much your machine is using. That said, it looks as though you may be a bit more of a 'power' user than our OP. I'd be interested in anyone running Mavericks on a 4GB Air or MBP. Performance and the graphic included would be nice. As well, a subjective analysis of the computer's behavior running the OS update on 4GB vs. Mountain Lion.
J
Was using Mavericks on my new MBA with 4GB. No graphics because I had to downgrade, having massive problems with Chrome.
Observations: Awesome. I'm not using this machine for heavy tasks, that's what the Desktop is for. Of course, light web browsing, videos and writing at the same time is no problem.
But I deliberately tried to mess the machine up. Opened about 25 programs, had several running in the background like LittleSnitch, Wunderlist, Evernote etc. and streamed YouTube 1080p while running a 12gb .mkv movie.
It was still perfectly possible to open 19 Chrome tabs, switch lightning quick between them and edit two 19MB Photoshop files while applying a few random filters to one of them.
Ram was obviously full and it took 1,7 GB of SWAP. Memory pressure (that's what it's called now isn't it!?) was at 37%.
No problem with 4GB, as I would never ever ever ever do this sort of things at the same time.
Not justifying my purchase, would still recommend 8 for everyone using parallels or doing heavy stuff. But I'm really not a fan of this 'get 8GB or you are doooooomed next year' crap.
Observations: Awesome. I'm not using this machine for heavy tasks, that's what the Desktop is for. Of course, light web browsing, videos and writing at the same time is no problem.
But I deliberately tried to mess the machine up. Opened about 25 programs, had several running in the background like LittleSnitch, Wunderlist, Evernote etc. and streamed YouTube 1080p while running a 12gb .mkv movie.
It was still perfectly possible to open 19 Chrome tabs, switch lightning quick between them and edit two 19MB Photoshop files while applying a few random filters to one of them.
Ram was obviously full and it took 1,7 GB of SWAP. Memory pressure (that's what it's called now isn't it!?) was at 37%.
No problem with 4GB, as I would never ever ever ever do this sort of things at the same time.
Not justifying my purchase, would still recommend 8 for everyone using parallels or doing heavy stuff. But I'm really not a fan of this 'get 8GB or you are doooooomed next year' crap.
Terms like "cheap" or "expensive" are all relative, but on a purchase of over $1000, i consider a 10% purchase price increase to double the long term capability of the machine for many tasks (very few things are CPU bound or GPU bound for most people these days - it's usually RAM that is the limiting factor - or storage, which can be swapped in either case) to be "cheap".
edit:
I did have a few things open when I took that screenshot. The big number to pay attention to in that pic is "wired" memory".
Memory that is "wired" can't be swapped out by the operating system. And yeah, Mavericks is great
I've run into a bit of a WIFI bug though (very specific circumstances, playing music in the background with soundcloud's web site), but have filed a bug report...
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Great post. It's cute how a lot of people in this thread spent $100 on 8GB of ram just because they think it will allow them to have Activity Monitor show 0 pageouts forever. Imagine their disappointment when they have 3GB of free ram and they are getting pageouts
You're most doomed if you decide next year you need to do more, like your Parallels example... there's no upgrade path. Penny wise, pound foolish is often the end result of penny pinching today.
People can do fine with 4GB sure today, but there's a reason why so many are for paying the little extra today for longevity and future proofing. Especially when upgrades down the road are not an option.
I'm still chugging along with a 2010 MBA - but it does have 4GB. If it was one of the 2GB models I imagine I would have chucked it out the window a while back. Fire up a VM and it slows to a crawl, but even back in 2010 I knew the 4GB wasn't going to quite cut it.
Get 4GB today if you want to, but as always - caveat emptor.
I don't know. Today I went to best buy and I tried using a 2012 MBA i5 with 4gb ram. I opened all the iLife apps, all OSX apps, iWork apps, many random system apps, and about 30 Safari tabs and it all worked perfectly fine. I still had around 300 mb free. All this to say that if you are planning to use the laptop for basic functions 8gb is not necessary.
All the threads and questions about how much memory people need and a trip to Best Buy and a simple test is all that was needed.
Note: If you actually want to use the programs opened, that's a different story.
No dude, some guy posted eariler. He uses a lot of safari so he needs 8gb of ram...
4gbs should be fine for your needs.
For your needs, 4gbs will be plenty. Eight is nice if money is not an issue, but you shouldn't notice any slowdown with what you are doing. I've had the same since my first 2012 MBA and haven't had an issue. I likely won't have this machine in three to four years anyway.
Short answer: Eight is nice, but isn't necessary for your stated needs.
For your needs, 4gbs will be plenty. Eight is nice if money is not an issue, but you shouldn't notice any slowdown with what you are doing. I've had the same since my first 2012 MBA and haven't had an issue. I likely won't have this machine in three to four years anyway.
Short answer: Eight is nice, but isn't necessary for your stated needs.
Except its not.
The programs are the small bit. Did you fire up an iphoto library with a few years worth of photos in it? Any projects in the rest of iLife?
Running the programs with nothing (or very small amounts of data) in them is one thing - running them with an actual real world work load is another.
I mean, I can fire up photoshop just fine on my old 2007 Mac Mini. It runs fine. I'm sure if I was to load up a bunch of 10 plus megapixel images it would chug.
Definitely.
Most people's machines spend most of their time pretty close to idle on CPU (other than brief spikes - even gaming these days is mostly GPU bound - not CPU, which is identical between all MBA spec).
This has been true for at least the past 18 years I've been working in the industry.
My advice has always been, both in PC land and on the Mac - get as much RAM as you can reasonably afford. Typically this is 2x the regularly shipping amount. E.g., if machines are shipping with 4 gigs base, go for 8. if it means dropping a speed grade on CPU then do so.
You will not notice the difference betwen say, 1.7Ghz and 1.9Ghz unless under very specific circumstances.
You WILL notice the difference in responsiveness between 4GB and 8GB in daily use, and having half the memory will eventually render your machine pretty much unusable, when software or the data files you are working with outgrow the RAM.
Dropping a speed grade on CPU won't.
To the OP:
Given the choice between 1 yr warranty and 8 GB or 3 year warranty and 4 GB (non-upgradable), i'd take the 1 year warranty every time (and did so, with my MBP).
Sure, if the machine dies after 12 months, you're boned.
But in my experience (18 years in the IT industry both PC repair and later network stuff) most machines that die, either die very early (manufacturing defect), or well after the warranty period or due to stuff not covered by warranty anyway (i.e., drop, liquid ingress, etc). The most common failure is storage, which is replaceable. I.e., it's a chance; you'll most likely NOT have an early failure, if it hasn't failed within the first couple of months.
However, going for HALF the RAM, and having no upgrade path, you WILL reduce the usable life of the machine. There's no "maybe" about it. It's a certainty, and has been the case with every machine I've owned.
But - that's a calculated risk on my part. If you'd prefer the safety of knowing your machine is covered, and can accept that you WILL need to upgrade sooner, then the longer warranty may be attractive.
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I just recently got a base model 2013 MBA and was wondering the same thing. I was looking to get it fast, and according to the sales rep there, they only carry 2 variants of the base model(both with 4GB of memory) and the "high-end" model that's like $1800.
I'm fairly new to OSX, but I'll be using mostly a mix of the following:
- A lot of Chrome Tabs Open
- Office 2013(I get a year from work)
- A lot of streaming content(Youtube/Netflix/Twitch.tv/Sports/etc.)
- Perhaps some very light video editing(for YouTube videos)
- Some Virtual Machine work possibly(VirtualBox)
I usually don't do all of these things at once, mind you. I close programs a lot if I'm not using them to avoid any possible slow downs.
Should I stick with 4GB? Or do you think I should swap it for a 8GB model? This is mainly going to be used for schoolwork type stuff in the long run.
I'm fairly new to OSX, but I'll be using mostly a mix of the following:
- A lot of Chrome Tabs Open
- Office 2013(I get a year from work)
- A lot of streaming content(Youtube/Netflix/Twitch.tv/Sports/etc.)
- Perhaps some very light video editing(for YouTube videos)
- Some Virtual Machine work possibly(VirtualBox)
I usually don't do all of these things at once, mind you. I close programs a lot if I'm not using them to avoid any possible slow downs.
Should I stick with 4GB? Or do you think I should swap it for a 8GB model? This is mainly going to be used for schoolwork type stuff in the long run.
If you post this question, you're going to get the same answer, "GET 8GB's!"
Doesn't necessarily mean you have to but ppl will have you believe you have to. I have 4GB's but my MBA isn't my primary machine, I have a Mac mini for that.
So, if this is going to be your primary machine, go for 8GB's if not, stick with 4GB's UNLESS you edit video or photography then 8GB's will be your best option.
Right. While most here claim 8GB is the new 4GB, the vast majority of Air users get the base model and are fine with it. Another consideration, though, is how long you plan to keep it.