4K 60fps Video "Benchmark" for YouTube

Discussion in 'iMac' started by Pipo24, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Pipo24 macrumors newbie


    May 15, 2018
    Click on this video, while running Chrome on macOS, put the resolution at 4K and fullscreen

    right click "Statics" on YT to see if you drop frames. Then post here how many dropped frames you had, and your Mac specs.
  2. mosher macrumors regular

    Jul 16, 2013
    So i run it for 10000 frames on my iMac

    Video ID / sCPN
    ojU5YZfDW5E / EBB1 AQ13 26AT
    Current / Optimal Res
    3840x2160@60 / 3840x2160@60
    Volume / Normalized
    100% / 100% (content loudness -4.0dB)
    vp09. (315) / opus (251)
    bt709 / bt709
    Connection Speed
    44861 Kbps
    Network Activity
    0 KB
    Buffer Health
    20.50 s
    Dropped Frames
  3. Darajavahus macrumors member


    Aug 8, 2015
  4. Pipo24, Jun 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018

    Pipo24 thread starter macrumors newbie


    May 15, 2018
  5. mreg376 macrumors 65816


    Mar 23, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
    --- Post Merged, Jun 3, 2018 ---
    Ok, so now you got me playing with resolutions and dropped frames in Chrome (since safari still does not do 4K or above). I basically get very few or 0 dropped frames all the way up to 4K/60fps (full screen), and even 8K/30fps. But I am getting lots of dropped frames at 8k/60fps. Is that normal for my 2017 iMac (please see details in my sig below)?
  6. Samuelsan2001 macrumors 604

    Oct 24, 2013
    Yep That would be normal your graphics aren't up to running 8K smoothly simple as that, you would need the imac pro with vega graphics to do that with a mac.
  7. Admiral macrumors regular


    Mar 14, 2015
    The best part is that this function will be built into the CPU within three years, or you can pay US$1000 for the video card today.
  8. kretek macrumors member

    Oct 15, 2008
  9. Martynas macrumors newbie

    Oct 6, 2017
    Why no 4k on Safari or Firefox? Only 1080 60p
  10. mreg376 macrumors 65816


    Mar 23, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
    That's a very good question. Would love an answer from somewhere.
  11. Pipo24 thread starter macrumors newbie


    May 15, 2018
    The reason is that VP9 (The codec that YT uses) is not supported by macOS, so Safari ignores the videos with that codec and if you try to use Chrome or even Bootcamp you will get bad performance as it needs to use Software decoder, instead of the Hardware decoder that intel includes in its 6th and above gen chipsets.
  12. mreg376 macrumors 65816


    Mar 23, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
    I see. But why isn't VP9 supported in MacOS? Can it be? Will it be?
  13. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Jun 13, 2015
    sigh, my mac sucks.

    3.5 Ghz i5-4690K, m290x, 2014 imac 5k

    Screen Shot 71.png

    no other programs running....
    --- Post Merged, Jun 5, 2018 ---
    I seem to remember, before high sierra came out, that it was possible to play 4k h.265 videos on a haswell with VLC, but an i7 was recommended, as playback would drop frames on an i5.

    But then high sierra came out, and quicktime player has no problem playing such a file. Apple's good at optimizing stuff.
  14. EugW, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018

    EugW macrumors 603


    Jun 18, 2017
    "4k h.265" is a very vague term. Low complexity low fps 8-bit 4K h.265 HEVC plays fine on lesser machines in software, but high complexity high fps 10-bit 4K h.265 HEVC can bring a Skylake 2015 i7 to its knees.

    However High Sierra's QuickTime as well as other applications in High Sierra can do 10-bit 4K h.265 HEVC in hardware on 2017 and later Macs, so that even files that don't play cleanly on a Skylake i7 iMac in High Sierra's QuickTime will play fine for me with under 25% usage on my 2017 12" MacBook Core m3. (Yes, we've already tried it. A 2017 Core m3-7Y32 MacBook easily beats a 2015 Core i7-6700K iMac for this purpose.)

    Now all we need is 4K DRM support in macOS, to allow 4K Netflix, Amazon, iTunes streaming on Macs. This would also require 2017 or later 7th generation Intel Macs though.

    There is software support for VP9 in Chrome of course, and current iMacs will usually play most 8-bit YouTube VP9 fine in software. Hardware playback is less taxing though, and the latest iMacs have that hardware support, but macOS won't support it.

    Presumably it's because it's a turf war. Google controls VP9, and Apple has put its support behind HEVC. That said, things may change when AV1 makes its debut. AV1 is also Google's baby to an extent, but they've gotten Apple on board at least superficially.

    Unfortunately, none of our machines have hardware AV1 decode support, and AV1 is considerably more difficult to decode in software than VP9.
  15. cynics macrumors G4

    Jan 8, 2012
    VP9 is supported in MacOS, its just not natively supported by Apple. Keep in mind VP9 is just a video codec and like the dozens upon dozens of other video codec available 3rd party software decoding is required.

    The thing that makes this an issue compared to other video codec is Google uses it to encode 4K video in the WebM container for HTML5 and YouTube. Since YouTube is web based and Safari can access it we can easily see the incompatibility.

    Why Apple doesn't currently support VP9 isn't exactly known but the reason certainly extends back to Apples HEAVY investment in h264 and VP8. h264 was designed to be a standard and Apple jumped on board with it because not only was it good but hardware decoding/encoding was supported. Conversely VP9 encoding still isn't heavily wide spread (Kaby Lake and newer on computers). Google acquired the company that created VP8 (and earlier versions) as an open source replacement for h264. But h264 already had its foot in the door and too many companies were invested into it. While there are services that use VP9 outside of Youtube however they are few and far between and if it wasn't for YouTube it would just be another obscure video codec.

    Can Apple support it in their software capable of playing video? Of course.

    Will Apple support VP9 in their software capable of playing videos? Unlikely.

    The successor of VP9 is called AV1 and its being developed by the Alliance of Open Media. Members of that alliance include Google, ARM, Netflix, AMD, Intel, nVidia, etc etc and Apple. I think Apple will support it via software and hardware however HEVC will still be their goto.
  16. EugW macrumors 603


    Jun 18, 2017
    AV1 seems like a while off. There are no hardware decoders in mainstream machines (which is not a surprise since the 1.0 spec was only published this year), and the streaming companies like Netflix say they won't use it until it's only about 5-10X more computationally intensive to encode vs. VP9. Unfortunately, right now with reference settings, AV1 is 200-700X (!) more computationally intensive to encode.

    The other problem is there is not a single mainstream Mac in existence that can software decode high quality 4K 10-bit AV1. Not sure about the iMac Pro, but probably not that either, and definitely not any other Mac currently in production.

    In terms of hardware decoding, I suspect the earliest for iOS would probably be something like 2021, since none of the existing ARM chips or the coming 2018 ARM chips from Apple have AV1 hardware decoding. Even if Apple is gung ho on supporting AV1 they basically would have had to only start designing chips for it very recently, meaning chips wouldn't be available with it for about 3 years. And it's probably even longer for Macs running on Intel.
  17. xpipe macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2008
    I have the 2017 iMac, 27" 4.2 GHz i7-whatever, Radeon Pro 580, 64Gb

  18. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Jun 13, 2015


    are you using extra large typefaces?
  19. xpipe macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2008

    Yes! Gigantic :oops:
  20. dylin macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2010
    What browser are you using?

    I think if you use chrome or Firefox it uses VP9 but if you use safari it doesn't use it.
  21. xpipe macrumors regular

    Jul 1, 2008

    I was using Chrome
  22. mreg376 macrumors 65816


    Mar 23, 2008
    Brooklyn, NY
  23. givemeanapple macrumors Demi-God


    Oct 2, 2016
    Late 15 27"
    Is this good or a bad thing? It didn't seem to drop frames :D
  24. adgjqetuo macrumors member

    May 29, 2012
    3 / 18035 - the 3 dropped frames happened in the first few seconds of the video.

    3.8 i5 / RX580 / 24GB RAM

    Attached Files:

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