Does anyone have experience running the Dell's at 30Hz? Is that something you notice just doing regular web browsing, email, Excel, etc.?
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4K and 5K Display Buyer's Guide for Macs
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I have a Samsung U28D590 4k monitor with my 2013 Mac Pro and have the same issues. Thunderbolt has never worked right with mine, even on Yosemite. I don't run it at full 4k very often, but I'd like to have that option with 60Hz. I wonder if the HDMI port can get a software update to 2.0, which would allow for 60Hz over HDMI. I don't think Apple will even bother at this point.
Be sure not to work on 5K unless you have some $'s. The old ACD will suddenly look like an 80's Atari game. (Well OK, maybe that's a stretch!) It happened to me after getting a 27" 5K Mac. Didn't realize how dim and very warm my 30" ACD had become. And wow, all those pixels became obvious. Now, fine type actually looks like how it really prints. I do miss the extra room for palettes I had w/ the 30" but I'm getting used to it.
Wow, super helpful and practical article. Thanks so much for this. My mid 14 RMBP is fine for just about everything except 4K at 60hz, and this has helped me understand when to upgrade....when my 11 year old beloved first gen dell lcd monitor bites the dust.
Interesting. So your saying that when my P2415Q does not wake from sleep with my 15" late 2013 rMBP in clamshell mode it may be because of the cable that was supplied with the monitor?
Also, good to know that I could drive a second monitor as well. So the Dell P2415Q is ultra HD NOT 4k as it is referred to in the article and elsewhere. Interesting.
I'm running just one ASUS 4K monitor connected to my 2013 Mac Pro and having the same sleep issues with the last OSX update. It sucks!
Running a MBP 13" Early 2015 along with the Dell P2715Q 27" 4K display that you mentioned. Connected using a 3rd party mini-DisplayPort to mini-DisplayPort cable. Rock solid and beautiful at 60 Hz.
WARNING: If you buy a P2715Q make sure you get it with rev A02 firmware, since there are issues with early models P2715Q waking from sleep. Unfortunately the only way to upgrade the firmware is exchange it with Dell.
WARNING: If you buy a P2715Q make sure you get it with rev A02 firmware, since there are issues with early models P2715Q waking from sleep. Unfortunately the only way to upgrade the firmware is exchange it with Dell.
Yes, that's what I'm writing/saying. I used the stock cable, and noticed that the cable was a bit warm, my rMBP would get hot, and my display(s) - sometimes I use one, sometimes two, sometimes two with my built-in display - and I had issues waking my displays.
Short backstory. I was read an edict by the galpal to clean up my workspace, and I obeyed. I mixed up a long TB cable with one of my other mDP cables and couldn't find my Dell cable, and used the TB cable (DP 1.1a). The cable wasn't hot, my rMBP didn't get scorching hot, and the display woke up right away 100% of the time whether I opened up my rMBP, tapped a key on my rMBP keyboard (out of habit I tap the ESC key), or tapped the ESC key on a Logitech K811 BT KB that I use. Two downsides - I didn't want to use a $50 cable for my display and I noted a bit of "lag" (please mods, don't hurt me for using the "L" word?!). So, I did a bit of reading about DP compliance, and bought some CableMatters cables and some other brand I don't recall the brand names, looking for more throughput - no more lag, but I had a hot Mac and waking issues. So, I dealt with it but kept reading from time to time...
One day I couldn't deal with it any longer, read up on the manufacturer's web page at displayport.org, and bought a couple of the only DP 1.2-compatible cables with the highest available throughput, made by Accell - I bought the mDP>DP in black, from Amazon, for $20 each (I bought two), and I'm considering buying two of the mDP>mDP (one of the P2715Q displays also has a Mini Server connected, via HDMI so I can use the TB port.
My rMBP runs cooler. My Dells wake 100% of the time when I want them to. The Dells no longer "wake" then "sleep". There's no "lag". I also use Spectacle for Finder Window management to move windows between displays - it's virtually instantaneous. In the Displays Pref Pane, my displays are listed as "Dell P2715Q", and I no longer need SwitchResX to tell my Mac that (I recently wiped and reinstalled 10.11 clean, no restore - there's no traces of SwitchResX on my rMBP now. In the Displays Pref Pane, I have Color profiles available to me now that I didn't with the other cables - I know that sounds odd, but it's almost like my rMBP is actually reading more EDID info from the Dells now (I have other displays by Dell and BenQ in my office and they're all acting "new" with the Accell cable). And, no hacks needed to see resolutions that only a 3rd-part utility/hack would provide - I have no 3rd-party utilities for displays on my rMBP. And, but not new with the Accell cables, I can get up to 4k @ 60Hz on both displays and full res on my built-in display.
Best frickin' $40 I'd spent last year on hardware. I put Accell cables on a few of our PCs, used for CAD work, and it was like the graphics cards were upgraded. The only downside is that we can't cook breakfast on the PCs now - they're running cooler too...
And, my TB cable, which is DP 1.1a-compliant, provides the same info as the Accell - it's just the two drawbacks of cost and perceptible lag that would keep me from using a TB cable with my Dells.
All of my other DP cables are in a bag that's going to Free Geek soon. I'm running A01 displays on my desk; I bought direct from Dell - I was about to send them back until my hunt started...
Hi, but isn't the text absolutely tiny to read? I mean, do you run native 5K resolution? Thanks (btw - I wear glasses!)
Some nice comments by members, but there's still some goofs by MR. Re the P2715Q:
- Dell P2715Q: 27" LED-lit Ultra HD IPS display with 3,840×2,160 resolution at up to 60Hz. Includes 1 DisplayPort 1.2 input, 1 DisplayPort output, 1 Mini DisplayPort and 1 HDMI port. DisplayPort-to-Mini DisplayPort cable included in the box. Supports SST in landscape or portrait viewing mode. Supports MST in landscape or portrait viewing mode.
13" Retine MacBook Pro Late 2013: Can drive a 4K monitor over one DisplayPort cable at 52Hz using the SwitchResX software. I have an external graphic card (GTX 970) over Thunderbolt 2 but I only use it to game because it makes more noise and I'm happy with the Retina 1920x1080 performance of the integrated graphics card (Intel HD 5100). And I don't notice the difference between 52 and 60Hz.
[doublepost=1453042918][/doublepost]An update on the (my) problems with the Samsung UD970Q monitor not waking from sleep. I just updated to the current El Capitan Beta release (4) and it appears to have resolved the wake-from-sleep problem. I still had to use another monitor to install El Capitan but once Beta 4 was added the monitor has been waking fine. Light at the end of the tunnel.
Nice article. Thanks MR.
Damn, I hope Apple will update their TB displays and give a 4K and 5K option sometime this year. Matte version would be great but they won't do it.
The glare of the current glass is a major pain if you work on any bright environment. I rather work on this environment than inside a dark cave. I don't get why Apple dropped the matte screen. The glass looks nice and is more appealing in terms of design but function wise is awful due the glare.
Looking forward to see Skylake and TB3 on Mac desktops too.
Damn, I hope Apple will update their TB displays and give a 4K and 5K option sometime this year. Matte version would be great but they won't do it.
The glare of the current glass is a major pain if you work on any bright environment. I rather work on this environment than inside a dark cave. I don't get why Apple dropped the matte screen. The glass looks nice and is more appealing in terms of design but function wise is awful due the glare.
Looking forward to see Skylake and TB3 on Mac desktops too.
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All the different aspect ratios are annoying. I've spent years cropping photos to 8x5 -> 1.6 ratio. I like that because they exactly fill the screen of a 15" MacBook, so no annoying borders unused. Almost all the displays here have a 16x9 -> 1.778 ratio. Camera sensors have a 1.50 ratio for common full frame and APS-C sensors. What to do??
MacRumors: The Late 2013 27" iMac does NOT have a Thunderbolt 2 port. iMacs didn't start coming with Thunderbolt 2 until the first 27" Retina iMac. The only non-retina iMac to have Thunderbolt 2 is the Late 2015 21.5" model. Not to nitpick, but it is worth revising the article so that anyone with the Late 2013 27" iMac reading this article gets false ideas about the capabilities of that system.
Strictly speaking, these aren't 4K monitors. Yes, they have lots of horizontal pixels but that's because they're ultra wide. They're still low DPI when compared to true 4K and UHD monitors the benefit of which is to run them in scaled mode in a virtual resolution so that display elements are made up of more pixels giving you a sharper image. Don't get me wrong, these are wonderful screens but (and call me pedantic if you like) they're not 4K or 5K.
I have an LG 31MU97 True 4K screen (4096 x 2160) running on my Late 2013 Mac Pro with a D300 video card. It's fantastic! So pleased with it.
The other factor to chuck in to this discussion is the colour depth that the monitor is capable of. The LG 31MU97, for instance, is 10-bit and not just able to display 100% sRGB but also Adobe RGB. The range of colours enhances the clarity of the screen and anything you display on it. It's why future 4K TV's will be adopting HDR - the colour depth, when combined with the number of pixels, makes a huge difference to what you see.
Just my 2p's worth.
Nice first try on this article. As I'm sure the writer discovered, one of the biggest issues to giving advice is the only way to know something FOR SURE is to test it yourself, and even then the next OS update can alter things.
Some things missed or in error:
1. nMP 2013 is targeted to MST 60 Hz. Doesn't usually give boot screen support with newer SST 4K and above as a result. The Dx00 drivers are designed for MST, Dell 5K support was added later.
2. Article says to go for SST, then the very first display you recommend is an MST display, and you don't mention the fact.
4. The BIG thing you left out is 4K TVs, as these are becoming THE way that most people get 4K in their home. And the VAST majority of these only have 4K SST connection via HDMI 2.0. As there are NO Macs with HDMI 2.0 ports, 99% of TVs on the planet will only run at 30Hz on a Mac, EVER. There may be DP to HDMI 2.0 adapters, but I have not tested them. One option is to get a Panasonic 4K TV with DP. They are a little more $$$ but by allowing Macs to run 4K at 60Hz they are worth it. Many people use a 4K TV to game on. Since 99% of 4K TVs are 30 Hz only on Macs this is quite limiting. The ONLY GPUs that natively output 4K 60 Hz via HDMI 2.0 are Maxwell GPUs from Nvidia. Even the latest Fiji GPU from AMD is limited to 30 Hz HDMI. So I have found that MANY people are very disappointed when they fire up their shiny new 4K TV and find that their Mac is very limited in options to run it. I am not sure if OSX drivers enable HDMI 2.0, I got tired of trying, but certainly one day they could, which would suddenly open up Maxwell updated cMP with 4K TVs to 60Hz in OSX. We offer the only GPUs that give a 4K boot screen on cMP. There are inexpensive GTX760 cards that can run the 5K display at Full Res.
5. I recommend the app "Display Menu" for exploring the possible resolutions on these displays. Pay for the upgrade and you can choose between retina scaled, and the blurry versions. (I have no affiliation with these guys, just have their product on all my machines)
Some things missed or in error:
1. nMP 2013 is targeted to MST 60 Hz. Doesn't usually give boot screen support with newer SST 4K and above as a result. The Dx00 drivers are designed for MST, Dell 5K support was added later.
2. Article says to go for SST, then the very first display you recommend is an MST display, and you don't mention the fact.
- ASUS PQ321Q: 31.5" LED-lit Ultra HD IGZO display with 3,840×2,160 resolution at up to 60Hz. Includes 1 DisplayPort 1.2 port and dual HDMI ports. Not stocked directly on Amazon, but still available from some resellers like B&H for $1,223.99.
4. The BIG thing you left out is 4K TVs, as these are becoming THE way that most people get 4K in their home. And the VAST majority of these only have 4K SST connection via HDMI 2.0. As there are NO Macs with HDMI 2.0 ports, 99% of TVs on the planet will only run at 30Hz on a Mac, EVER. There may be DP to HDMI 2.0 adapters, but I have not tested them. One option is to get a Panasonic 4K TV with DP. They are a little more $$$ but by allowing Macs to run 4K at 60Hz they are worth it. Many people use a 4K TV to game on. Since 99% of 4K TVs are 30 Hz only on Macs this is quite limiting. The ONLY GPUs that natively output 4K 60 Hz via HDMI 2.0 are Maxwell GPUs from Nvidia. Even the latest Fiji GPU from AMD is limited to 30 Hz HDMI. So I have found that MANY people are very disappointed when they fire up their shiny new 4K TV and find that their Mac is very limited in options to run it. I am not sure if OSX drivers enable HDMI 2.0, I got tired of trying, but certainly one day they could, which would suddenly open up Maxwell updated cMP with 4K TVs to 60Hz in OSX. We offer the only GPUs that give a 4K boot screen on cMP. There are inexpensive GTX760 cards that can run the 5K display at Full Res.
5. I recommend the app "Display Menu" for exploring the possible resolutions on these displays. Pay for the upgrade and you can choose between retina scaled, and the blurry versions. (I have no affiliation with these guys, just have their product on all my machines)
Thanks for the tip. I have confirmed the Dell P24 and P27 do support MST and updated the article.
You're right. Late 2013 iMac does not have Thunderbolt 2. I've removed it from the list.
I have added MST to the ASUS PQ321Q's description. Thanks for pointing that out.
But this is just a list of Apple's officially supported 4K/5K displays. I recommended Dell's P2415Q/P2715Q at the bottom.
Where do the 21:9 UltraWide displays from LG, Samsung, and Dell fit in.
a 34" Ultrawide has a res of 3440x1440 which isn't 4k obviously, but solves the single external for two screens.
My wife and I would like one of those for connecting her new work computer which will likely be a Surface Pro 4 along with our Mac Mini, sharing the screen. The Mini can still serve up iTunes content to our Apple TVs when the screen is being used by my wife for work.
However, what I have seen so far is that Windows 10 has issues with external displays that are not high res, as the SP4 screen is, and it can't deal well with two different scaling. Not sure if the Ultrawide at 3440x1440 solves that or if you really need some 4k display(s) to go with something like an SP4. I just know she would prefer not to get another Dell latitude and she doesn't want to run two external displays if she can run one.
Are Ultrawide displays gaining any traction or not?
a 34" Ultrawide has a res of 3440x1440 which isn't 4k obviously, but solves the single external for two screens.
My wife and I would like one of those for connecting her new work computer which will likely be a Surface Pro 4 along with our Mac Mini, sharing the screen. The Mini can still serve up iTunes content to our Apple TVs when the screen is being used by my wife for work.
However, what I have seen so far is that Windows 10 has issues with external displays that are not high res, as the SP4 screen is, and it can't deal well with two different scaling. Not sure if the Ultrawide at 3440x1440 solves that or if you really need some 4k display(s) to go with something like an SP4. I just know she would prefer not to get another Dell latitude and she doesn't want to run two external displays if she can run one.
Are Ultrawide displays gaining any traction or not?
Hi all,
Appreciate all these great posts. I've learned a lot. I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro 15" (non dGPU base model) and am very happily driving a Dell UP2414Q at 60Hz. I also use an Accell cable (Accell B143B-007J UltraAV Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort 1.2 Cable with Latch, White, 6.6-Feet). Occasionally I have wake-from-sleep issues, but that doesn't bother me too much. What I'm wondering is why SST is better than MST -- I mean theoretically I can see why it's better, but what are the performance issues? I don't see any issues with MST in my setup.
Sam
Appreciate all these great posts. I've learned a lot. I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro 15" (non dGPU base model) and am very happily driving a Dell UP2414Q at 60Hz. I also use an Accell cable (Accell B143B-007J UltraAV Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort 1.2 Cable with Latch, White, 6.6-Feet). Occasionally I have wake-from-sleep issues, but that doesn't bother me too much. What I'm wondering is why SST is better than MST -- I mean theoretically I can see why it's better, but what are the performance issues? I don't see any issues with MST in my setup.
Sam