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4k iMac, Skylake, TB3?

M

mjohansen

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 19, 2010
238
56
Denmark
So if everything goes according to (my) plan, the new iMac 21,5 inch will be updated in October (December at the latest) with Skylake, default fusion drive, 4k resolution and Thunderbolt 3 (pretty psyched about Intels external GPU support).

I know that nothing has been confirmed yet and that we dont have Intels release schedule for the rest of the Skylake CPU's but would any of you geniuses on these forums please help me out with a few questions?

Are my expectations realistic in regards to release date time frame and specifications or do I need to lower them?

Is there any risk, that if the iMac gets Skylake (and not Broadwell) that it won't have thunderbolt 3?
 
mjohansen said:
pretty psyched about Intels external GPU support
Click to expand...

Tell me more... I'd be interested in a plug and play solution, as previous thunderbolt PCI card cages were definitely not designed around GPUs. Something about Intel not approving external GPUs.
 
jerwin said:
Tell me more... I'd be interested in a plug and play solution, as previous thunderbolt PCI card cages were definitely not designed around GPUs. Something about Intel not approving external GPUs.
Click to expand...
Check these sites out:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbolt-3
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-does-it-all

On the last site Intel writes:
"Gamers can now connect plug ‘n’ play external graphics to a notebook to enjoy the latest games at recommended or higher settings."
 
That is cool. Pity that I only have Thunderbolt 2. I wonder if there's any hope for us left behind.
 
As far as I understand, it is only the new alpine ridge controller (included only in Skylake CPUs?) which officially supports it
 
Thunderbolt are separate controllers so not limited to Skylake CPUs. Eventually Thunderbolt might be part of the chipset and thus be included with the CPU (Intel CPUs are becoming SoCs).
 
But wait - are these Intel GPUs? You pretty much know that the performance of Intel GPUs have lagged behind that of NVidia or AMD. My thoughts are that Apple would not have such a clunky and visually unattractive setup - you've got cables all over a desk and multiple boxes and modules - Ive would go "horrific! That looks like a hobbyist nightmare".

What I could potentially see them doing is having a laptop that docks into a "power base" that would have something like this.

But, I still wouldn't want an Intel GPU - too slow/underpowered. Remember the Intel focus over the last few years for mobile machines is reasonable performance with high battery efficiency.
 
aliensporebomb said:
But wait - are these Intel GPUs? You pretty much know that the performance of Intel GPUs have lagged behind that of NVidia or AMD. My thoughts are that Apple would not have such a clunky and visually unattractive setup - you've got cables all over a desk and multiple boxes and modules - Ive would go "horrific! That looks like a hobbyist nightmare".
QUOTE]

Like the new Mac Pro you mean, with multiple box's and cables everywhere, unlike the old neat Mac Pro which everything fitted inside in a neat and tidy way?

But did the old mac pro look at hip and cool and trendy?
You know these days THAT is no.1 on the list and all else trails.
Click to expand...
 
campyguy said:
Cough, cough...
http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-...ps-with-e3-1500m-v5-skylake-processor-family/
http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2015/08/bringing-intel-xeon-to-notebook-pcs/

Sorry, had to clear my throat... :D
Click to expand...
You should go see a doctor. Not only do you have a nasty cough but your eyesight seems to be shot too.

For example you missed the following:
Mobile workstations featuring Intel Xeon will also feature Thunderbolt™ 3– the USB-C that does it all.
Click to expand...
The crucial part is highlighted in bold. It's the computer that will get Thunderbolt just as it has been since the very first Thunderbolt chips. Like I said, the CPUs are NOT getting TB3, it's a separate chip. The USB-C and the built-in USB3.1 Gen 1+2 in the TB3 chip is the main reason why they are using TB3 and not TB2. If the OEM doesn't want to use TB then all they have to do is not include the chip on their PCB. That's why we don't have that many PCB's with TB outside Apple and Gigabyte.

This is similar to the Centrino name. If you wanted to use that name you had to use Intels CPU, chipset and wifi chip. All 3 of them were separate chips and you could perfectly use your own wifi chip if you wanted (which many did) but if you did you weren't allowed to use the Centrino name.

It's also the reason why you won't find any mentions of any CPU architecture whatsoever in the Thunderbolt 3 announcement or anywhere on the official website ;)

Read a bit more careful next time: there is a difference between "part of the cpu" and "coupled with a certain CPU architecture". I was talking about the former, not the latter.

@Piggie yes like the new Mac Pro where you can now hide the noisy disk array and create a nice and quiet working place. Something that was impossible with the old Mac Pro because everything, including the noisy disks, where stuck in 1 case. But hey, at least now you don't have to buy a desktop and a notebook; just the notebook is enough with Thunderbolt tech. Saves some money. Even more so now the Xeon is coming to the notebook.
 
dyn said:
You should go see a doctor. Not only do you have a nasty cough but your eyesight seems to be shot too.

For example you missed the following:

The crucial part is highlighted in bold. It's the computer that will get Thunderbolt just as it has been since the very first Thunderbolt chips. Like I said, the CPUs are NOT getting TB3, it's a separate chip. The USB-C and the built-in USB3.1 Gen 1+2 in the TB3 chip is the main reason why they are using TB3 and not TB2. If the OEM doesn't want to use TB then all they have to do is not include the chip on their PCB. That's why we don't have that many PCB's with TB outside Apple and Gigabyte.

This is similar to the Centrino name. If you wanted to use that name you had to use Intels CPU, chipset and wifi chip. All 3 of them were separate chips and you could perfectly use your own wifi chip if you wanted (which many did) but if you did you weren't allowed to use the Centrino name.

It's also the reason why you won't find any mentions of any CPU architecture whatsoever in the Thunderbolt 3 announcement or anywhere on the official website ;)

Read a bit more careful next time: there is a difference between "part of the cpu" and "coupled with a certain CPU architecture". I was talking about the former, not the latter.

@Piggie yes like the new Mac Pro where you can now hide the noisy disk array and create a nice and quiet working place. Something that was impossible with the old Mac Pro because everything, including the noisy disks, where stuck in 1 case. But hey, at least now you don't have to buy a desktop and a notebook; just the notebook is enough with Thunderbolt tech. Saves some money. Even more so now the Xeon is coming to the notebook.
Click to expand...
I didn't miss anything. I've posted in other threads here recently that I've seen upcoming Intel-based products from some local connects in Hillsboro and I've come away very impressed with what I've seen, and I wish I could expound. I wasn't picking nits with or attempting to counter you, rather, holding out hope that we'll see a much broader spectrum of products that are in line with the nasty products I've seen for myself. I have a large investment in PCs and Macs and peripherals, so I get marketing calls and demos that consumers don't get. So, I'll take back what I wrote, so never mind. Everybody else, we can hope to revel in some pretty nice (and zippy) hardware in the coming months.
 
dyn said:
@Piggie yes like the new Mac Pro where you can now hide the noisy disk array and create a nice and quiet working place. Something that was impossible with the old Mac Pro because everything, including the noisy disks, where stuck in 1 case. But hey, at least now you don't have to buy a desktop and a notebook; just the notebook is enough with Thunderbolt tech. Saves some money. Even more so now the Xeon is coming to the notebook.
Click to expand...

2015 and Apple still using spinning discs?
How quaint :)
 
mjohansen said:
So if everything goes according to (my) plan, the new iMac 21,5 inch will be updated in October (December at the latest) with Skylake, default fusion drive, 4k resolution and Thunderbolt 3 (pretty psyched about Intels external GPU support).

I know that nothing has been confirmed yet and that we dont have Intels release schedule for the rest of the Skylake CPU's but would any of you geniuses on these forums please help me out with a few questions?

Are my expectations realistic in regards to release date time frame and specifications or do I need to lower them?

Is there any risk, that if the iMac gets Skylake (and not Broadwell) that it won't have thunderbolt 3?
Click to expand...

Who knows, I doubt fusion will be standard on the lower end imacs, but the rest seems to be a fair prediction.
 
campyguy said:
I wasn't picking nits with or attempting to counter you, rather, holding out hope that we'll see a much broader spectrum of products that are in line with the nasty products I've seen for myself.
Click to expand...
That's how it goes with tech every single time: you want the new tech then you need to buy a new computer. What I was hoping that people would pick up on was the problem of needing 2 chips instead of 1. Because it is a 2 chip setup that still means it can be excluded. In case of the MacBook that could very well be the case as the motherboard is very very tiny and doesn't seem to have enough space for that second chip. It probably will have Skylake but I doubt there will be Thunderbolt 3 (I really hope I'm wrong here because the MacBook with Skylake and Thunderbolt 3 would be too cool). With the iMac this isn't a problem (hey, we have it since Thunderbolt was introduced).

Piggie said:
2015 and Apple still using spinning discs?
How quaint :)
Click to expand...
If you want mass storage or use it for archiving then there is nothing better than good old tech (HDD and tape)! :p
 
dyn said:
That's how it goes with tech every single time: you want the new tech then you need to buy a new computer. What I was hoping that people would pick up on was the problem of needing 2 chips instead of 1. Because it is a 2 chip setup that still means it can be excluded. In case of the MacBook that could very well be the case as the motherboard is very very tiny and doesn't seem to have enough space for that second chip. It probably will have Skylake but I doubt there will be Thunderbolt 3 (I really hope I'm wrong here because the MacBook with Skylake and Thunderbolt 3 would be too cool). With the iMac this isn't a problem (hey, we have it since Thunderbolt was introduced).
Click to expand...
I'm over any hangups I had about what you're alluding to. I'm old, dangit, and I want it now! In line with your comments here, I agree with you and moreso I disagree with the "thinner is better" trend in laptops. Those new Xeon chipsets will likely never be installed a Mac laptop (pooh), however, I'm looking for an eCPU "box" solution that I could dock on to a laptop for a real kick - and, like you, I'd expect to see these new Xeon chips in a future iMac. As for a XrMBP (Xeon Retina Macbook Pro), yeah, I'd break out my credit card for that in a heartbeat, and buy a desktop Vornado fan to put alongside it! Cheers!
 
Piggie said:
2015 and Apple still using spinning discs?
How quaint :)
Click to expand...

What you mean like the whole of the rest of the personal computer industry which have HDD's as standard in almost all of their offerings with sata 3 SSD upgrades being expensive and reserved for the high end machines. Apple has definitely been the poster boy for SSD's and has rolled them out accross their line up more quickly and more competently than anyone else, one of the main reasons their computer sales are actually growing compared to the dire straits everyone else seems to be in IMO...
 
What GPU might be included in the updated iMacs?
Are there any new mobile GPUs about to be released?
 
How I envision the next iMac 5K, given that Skylake can support it.
iMac 5K v2.jpg
 
mjohansen said:
Check these sites out:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbolt-3
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-does-it-all

On the last site Intel writes:
"Gamers can now connect plug ‘n’ play external graphics to a notebook to enjoy the latest games at recommended or higher settings."
Click to expand...

Stupid question, since an Imac combine a screen and CPU, could you use only an Imac and a external gpu? You plug one thunderbold 3 cable from the Imac to the external GPU and another thunderbolt 3 cable from the external GPU to the Imac ? If so, you may have create another segment for the Imac : proper gaming with the use of bootcamp :)
 
voltaire2030 said:
Stupid question, since an Imac combine a screen and CPU, could you use only an Imac and a external gpu? You plug one thunderbold 3 cable from the Imac to the external GPU and another thunderbolt 3 cable from the external GPU to the Imac ? If so, you may have create another segment for the Imac : proper gaming with the use of bootcamp :)
Click to expand...
Not sure I understand your question. I reckon one cable from the external GPU to the iMac is sufficient?
 
voltaire2030 said:
Stupid question, since an Imac combine a screen and CPU, could you use only an Imac and a external gpu? You plug one thunderbold 3 cable from the Imac to the external GPU and another thunderbolt 3 cable from the external GPU to the Imac ? If so, you may have create another segment for the Imac : proper gaming with the use of bootcamp :)
Click to expand...

The answer is yes, sort of. I've been using an eGPU+GTX970 for a few months now on my iMac and MBA. Both of these machines only have Thunderbolt 1 ports, but gaming has been markedly improved on both machines (Windows and OS X). You cannot use solely the iMac's screen - you would need to use an external monitor from the eGPU. Nvidia Optimus is an option for macs that have only Intel GPUs, but I haven't bothered with this yet.

Check out more here: http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/
 
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