4K Output on New AppleTV?

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by guzhogi, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. guzhogi macrumors 68030

    guzhogi

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    #1
    Does anyone know if the new AppleTV will support 4K output? There are a bunch of 4K TVs out there so it might be nice to have full support.
     
  2. Wunderwally macrumors member

    Wunderwally

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  3. 2010mini macrumors 68040

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    #3
    If it does get jailbroken, maybe the USB-C port can be used for 4K
     
  4. mellofello macrumors 65816

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    #4
    :( Nope. Choose between crispy 4k, or a good UI. Cannot have both.
     
  5. 2010mini, Sep 17, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015

    2010mini macrumors 68040

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    #5
    I'll take the UI. 4K TVs are still too high in price.And US broadband structure is still not ready for widespread 4K streaming.
     
  6. CaptTCS macrumors regular

    CaptTCS

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    #6
    The new HDMI <can> support 4k. I imagine that Apple is only waiting for more demand and more content support before they roll out software support. That's all it will take. The hardware is capable.. All it will take is a firmware/software update.
     
  7. Wunderwally macrumors member

    Wunderwally

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    #7
    Are you sure? As far as i know the new ATV doesn't support HDMI 2.0 and HEVC decoding which is mandatory for 4K? (and HEVC decoding needs a different Chip to support it)
     
  8. KittyKatta macrumors 6502a

    KittyKatta

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    #8
    My theory on the new AppleTV is that it was developed over a year ago (before 4K became an obvious spec decision) and that those delay rumors were true. They couldn't wait anymore so that's why we have such an unimpressive box that will quickly be replaced with a more modern one.

    It just doesn't make sense to develop an iPhone capable of 4K recording but not a streaming box incapable of displaying it.
     
  9. bluespark macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Exactly. Those arguing that the lack of 4k support makes sense in light of the difficulty in streaming 4k content over the internet are ignoring that Apple has given people the perfect tool to create their own 4k content that in theory could be displayed on the Apple TV without ever involving the internet. To me, this omission sounds like the kind of issue that has plagued companies like Yahoo and the old Microsoft -- different parts of the company seem to be pursuing different goals.

    Also, it's silly to argue (as many have) that the 4k omission here is justified by the lack of 4k content. Just as the iPod spurred the widespread adoption of digital music, 4k-capable hardware will spur the widespread adoption of higher-quality formats (although probably not to the same extent). Here, though, the leader will be a Roku or Amazon, etc.

    To be clear, I'm not bashing the device overall, which I believe brings some very nice features to the table. But it does seem a bit incomplete, and that's too bad given what we've seen Apple do in the past.
     
  10. HyperliteG4, Sep 17, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015

    HyperliteG4 macrumors regular

    HyperliteG4

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    #10
    4K can and will most likely be just a simple software update away.

    HDMI 1.4 easily supports 4K, just at a much lower bandwidth than HDMI 2.0 which is at 18Gbps, up from 10.2Gbps in HDMI 1.4. For a little more context, normal Blu-rays max out at 54Mbps in their compressed form in which the player will then playback uncompressed. HDMI 1.0-1.2 spec handled up to 4.95Gbps.

    For the most part having the lower bandwidth simply means no high bandwidth features like high color depth (10bit & 12bit), 60p, dual video streams or higher bandwidth audio formats such as 1536KHz sample rates and Dolby Atmos (up to 32 channels up from 8).

    Are 60p 4K video and high colour depth good updates to have with HDMI 2.0? Absolutely, but 4K distribution needs to catch up and 4K TVs need to start dropping in price before they’ll become truly worthwhile.

    Claiming you’re seeing all the benefits of 12-bit colour on a $750 4K LCD is like singing the praises of 24-bit FLAC files through a pair of Apple EarPods.
     
  11. jerwin, Sep 17, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015

    jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #11
    That's not "a little more context". That's no context at all. Blurays are decoded and decompressed by a player, which outputs an uncompressed video signal. That uncompressed video signal may fit comfortably within HDMI 1.0's bandwidth, but it's a lot closer to 4 Gigabits than it is to 54 Mbit/s.
     
  12. HyperliteG4 macrumors regular

    HyperliteG4

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    #12
    Sorry I stand corrected (quick typing). I'll update my post
     
  13. Rigby macrumors 601

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    #13
    It's theoretically possible that it could output 4K@30Hz. We also know that the A8 can support H.265, since it's used for Facetime on iPhone 6 and later (and probably also for 4K recording on the 6s). But even if it is possible, I doubt that Apple would make such a significant upgrade without selling you a new device ...
     
  14. KittyKatta macrumors 6502a

    KittyKatta

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    #14
    Yeah. I'm not saying it never happened before, but I am genuinely curious when Apple actually unlocked a major feature through rather than selling us new hardware to buy instead. (Right now all I can think of is NFC. Apple is intentionally crippling it but IF they ever do allow its use then will the changes go back to the 6/6S or only future devices because it would be a selling point for new hardware.)
     
  15. CaptTCS macrumors regular

    CaptTCS

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    #15

    ^^ What he or she said. ^^ HDMI 1.4 (along with the rest of the new ATV's hardware) IS capable of 4k. The rest is only a firmware/software update away... Once that Apple finds it worthwhile, based on demand and content supply.


    That being said... Any newer 4k TV or passthrough receiver has upscaling anyway... So?
     
  16. mellofello macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Amazon just did this. They released the fire tv with hdmi 1.4 and claimed it was 4K ready. I'm glad apple didn't follow suit. HDMI 2.0 or bust.
     
  17. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

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    #17
    Why? Have you seen 4k @ 30p? Have you seen 1080p or 1080i upscaled to 4k @ 30p? Have you considered the source file that is being used for playback? No on really argues that 60p 4k content is top in the venue but most really have not seen 4k@30p which very well may be what some offerings are for streaming (such as content that was originally shot for 29.x fps. - Just a thought.
     
  18. cynics macrumors G3

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    #18
    Too high in price is relative. I was at Costco yesterday and much to my amazement the majority of tv's they were selling there 4K. Name brands like Samsung 55" under 1000 dollars, Vizio were less then 800.

    I haven't been TV shopping in quite a while but I was very surprised to find they had no decent 1080p TV's that didn't seem intentionally cheap...like 'on a budget' cheap unless you were looking for 65"+.
     
  19. mellofello macrumors 65816

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    #19

    I have. When I plug my 2015 MbpR into my 4K tv, over hdmi 1.4 and watch YouTube it is noticeably jittery.

    Plug the same laptop into a 4K monitor over DisplayPort, and it plays back buttery smooth.

    You shouldn't be able to claim 4K capable, unless you have DisplayPort 1.2 or hdmi 2.0.
     
  20. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

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    #20
    I don't doubt your statement but what are you doing to play to your TV? I would say that a player that is set to work
    with 4K @30p on 60 hrtz TV should be fine if the original media file is meant to be shown that way. Jitter may come from
    buffer issues, inability to pull down a frame (usually in this case a duplicate) etc.

    Like yourself, I have seen a set up playing a file that is 30p and 4k that played brilliantly. This was in fact generated
    by a student to simply test his equipment. It is not "specialized" in any way to be a showcase just for calibration test
    purposes. We'll both agree that the ideal is HDMI 2.x with 60p content. Then again, between us I fear that some things
    will happen akin to DVD and Blue Ray where some transfers are just conversion dumps with no considerations (for lack
    of a better word - 'mastering.').
     
  21. Vermifuge, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015

    Vermifuge macrumors 6502a

    Vermifuge

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    #21
    Developing apps that operate reliably (especially games) at 4k resolution just wouldn’t happen with the A8. Were talking 8.3 million pixels here. The iPhone 6 Plus lags behind the iPhone 6 in performance and it’s rendering 2.7 million pixels (1242 × 2208 down sampled to 1080p) compared to a 4k TVs 8.3 million pixels. It would require something better than an A8 and likely more than 2 gb of RAM.

    Could Apple just have apps / ui run at 1080p and have video play at 4k? Possibly, but I don't see mixed HD / 4K content and inconsistent apps that being the experience Apple would want to sell.

    The number of people who own 4K TVs is still pretty niche at this time. A quick Google search suggests less than 5% of NA homes have 4k and even fewer world wide. Projected growth suggests 20% of homes by 2017 for NA and 2.5 % world wide. Apple has no pressing incentive to release hardware that supports 4k now if the hardware can be refreshed in two years.
     
  22. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

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    #22
    h265 is not mandatory for 4K. Even the iPhone 6S records 4K in h264. And HEVC decoding can be done in software, although it is of course highly inefficient.

    The documents that stated Facetime used h265 has since then been removed, so I wouldn't take that as a fact. Especially considering the current state of the official h265 specifications.
     
  23. Beerstalker macrumors 6502

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    #23
    The Apple TV4 could end up supporting 4K for home video and apps like others have mentioned, because HDMI 1.4 can support 4K @ 30fps.

    However, do not expect iTunes Movies and TV shows to work at 4K. The movie/TV studios are going to demand HDCP 2.2 protection for their content, and that is only available with HDMI 2.0, which the Apple TV4 does not have.

    Personally, I'm betting we never see 4K from the Apple TV4 because only allowing 4K for some content, but not others is going to cause more confusion and complaints from people that don't understand what is going on.
     
  24. CaptTCS macrumors regular

    CaptTCS

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    #24
    1.4 is the minimum requirement for 4K. 2.0 is so fast, only the fastest Internet Markets would be able to handle the bandwidth.
     
  25. Dunk the Lunk macrumors regular

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    #25
    Also as far as we know in the iPhone 6 there is a chip (presumably on the A8 or graphics card?) which does encode/decode HEVC for Facetime. We don't know yet if this is hidden in the ATV4.
     

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