4k TVs are so advanced, whats the point of Apple TV 4k?

[Mac 128]

So if i set my atv to 4k sdr with range matching on, will the atv or my tv itself will upscale 1080 show to 4k? And who will convert a hdr shows to hdr?

The Apple TV will upscale your content to 4K and send the TV a 4K signal, but it will auto match for SDR, HDR, or DV. If the encoding for HDR or DV is offered, it will be passed through to the TV to present in the supported format. It's the TV that does the actual implementation of HDR, the Apple TV just tells the TV that it's sending an HDR signal. This is why setting the default output to HDR is bad, because the ATV tells the TV that everything is HDR, and the TV applies its HDR settings to content that isn't mastered for it.

 

[Dgame1234]

I have a certain website that i want to play from my iphone to my tv via apple tv.... so i used the screen mirroring option... my question now is if i already mirror the show to the tv, is there anyway or option in which i could put to sleep my phone while still playing the video?
Cause everytime my phone gets to sleep mode the tv its mirroring suddenly disconnected...

 

[Mac 128]

I have a certain website that i want to play from my iphone to my tv via apple tv.... so i used the screen mirroring option... my question now is if i already mirror the show to the tv, is there anyway or option in which i could put to sleep my phone while still playing the video?
Cause everytime my phone gets to sleep mode the tv its mirroring suddenly disconnected...

Not at present. That was not the case before the last iOS 11 update and iOS 12 doesn’t seem to have fixed this. You’ll have to set your phone not to sleep while mirroring.

 

[priitv8]

Not at present. That was not the case before the last iOS 11 update and iOS 12 doesn’t seem to have fixed this. You’ll have to set your phone not to sleep while mirroring.

The phone can not sleep while mirroring the screen, by definition.
It could only turn off the screen.

 

[Juicy Box]

The phone can not sleep while mirroring the screen, by definition.
It could only turn off the screen.

I think it might be a bug on iOS 12.

My iPhone SE on iOS 12 started to go to sleep if I was airplaying a video. I would stop it from sleeping from occasionally touching the screen.

 

[priitv8]

I think it might be a bug on iOS 12.

My iPhone SE on iOS 12 started to go to sleep if I was airplaying a video. I would stop it from sleeping from occasionally touching the screen.

Airplaying a video off the website or YouTube app is fundamentally different from AirPlay (screen) Mirroring.
The latter requires the iPhone to encode its framebuffer (ie. contents of what is displayed on screen) into H.264 in real time and send the result out over network.
It is a lot of work and the CPU/GPU can not sleep at that time.

If the connection breaks with screen going to sleep, this would be a bug.

 

[Juicy Box]

Airplaying a video off the website or YouTube app is fundamentally different from AirPlay (screen) Mirroring.
The latter requires the iPhone to encode its framebuffer (ie. contents of what is displayed on screen) into H.264 in real time and send the result out over network.
It is a lot of work and the CPU/GPU can not sleep at that time.

If the connection breaks with screen going to sleep, this would be a bug.

Are you saying that the iPhone going to sleep while AirPlaying is working as intended?

I don’t think so.

 

[Mac 128]

Airplaying a video off the website or YouTube app is fundamentally different from AirPlay (screen) Mirroring.
The latter requires the iPhone to encode its framebuffer (ie. contents of what is displayed on screen) into H.264 in real time and send the result out over network.
It is a lot of work and the CPU/GPU can not sleep at that time.

If the connection breaks with screen going to sleep, this would be a bug.

That may be, but I was streaming from Safari prior to iOS 11.4 without any issues when the phone went to sleep. The video continued to stream to my Apple TV after the screen turned off, so technically maybe not sleep, but the screen turned off. After 11.4 when the screen turned off, the video stopped.

 

[Juicy Box]

That may be, but I was streaming from Safari prior to iOS 11.4 without any issues when the phone went to sleep. The video continued to stream to my Apple TV after the screen turned off, so technically maybe not sleep, but the screen turned off. After 11.4 when the screen turned off, the video stopped.

I have has to same issue on my SE since updating to iOS 12 from iOS 10.

It is very annoying.

 

[priitv8]

Are you saying that the iPhone going to sleep while AirPlaying is working as intended?

I don’t think so.

Haven't checked it lately. Let me do so and report back.
PS I would not be surprised, if it does cut out the AirPlay stream. IMHO we've already had this with one of previous iOS releases. Got fixed sometime later in a .x release.
PPS Dgame1234 was specifically saying he does mirroring, hence my rant.

 

[priitv8]

I have has to same issue on my SE since updating to iOS 12 from iOS 10.

It is very annoying.

Is it model-specific?
I am unable to reproduce on my iP8, everything on version 12.
Neither Safari, nor YouTube app.

Are you saying that the iPhone going to sleep while AirPlaying is working as intended?

I don’t think so.

No, it is not going to sleep. But re-routing incoming video stream to AirPlay takes much less effort than realtime encoding of video (what mirroring demands). So the iPhone won’t break a sweat doing this.

 

[Dgame1234]

Hi im a little confused, is airplay and screen mirrorirng are two different ways to watch a video in your iphone or ipad safari to your apple tv?

 

[priitv8]

Hi im a little confused, is airplay and screen mirrorirng are two different ways to watch a video in your iphone or ipad safari to your apple tv?

They are the same in terms of data transfer protocol (AirPlay) and the target renderer (appleTV).
They are fundamentally different in the stages preceding transmission to aTV over network.

1. AirPlay (using the option in video player) - incoming video stream (that is in correct format - H.264 video + AAC audio) is simply sent forward to aTV for decoding and rendering. If the incoming format is different, a transcoding to H.264 would be required, but AFAIK, iOS media player only supports H.264 (and H.265 lately). YouTube provides streams in these formats and resolutions. VP9 seems to be used mostly for UHD and HDR representations. I'd imagine YT player simply requests H.264 stream in FullHD, when AirPlay is turned on. Once turned on, you will see the familiar black screen in video player with AirPlay icon prominently shown. And the device screen and big TV screen display different pictures.
2. In case of mirrroring, the situation is different. Device screen and big TV screen display exact same picture (you will see OS UI elements on big screen). UI is created in GPU and stored in framebuffer as exact bitmap representation of the screen (inside Mac, iPhone or iPad). This format is not transferable over network for bandwidth requirement reasons. Most computer screens also have different resolutions than TV screens, so pixels do not match. So iPhone/iPad/Mac takes its framebuffer and compresses it to H.264 video stream. That needs to be done at least 24 times every second. So they use built-in hardware video encoder to achieve this encoding speed. If your screen contains a moving video, that becomes decoded, rendered for screen and then encoded for sending over network for AirPlay. So here a) double and partly unnecessary work is performed and b) the video sent over network is not the same (quality) as the original. It has been decompressed for screen presentation and then compressed again for AirPlay.

 

[Mac 128]

They are the same in terms of data transfer protocol (AirPlay) and the target renderer (appleTV).
They are fundamentally different in the stages preceding transmission to aTV over network.

1. AirPlay (using the option in video player) - incoming video stream (that is in correct format - H.264 video + AAC audio) is simply sent forward to aTV for decoding and rendering. If the incoming format is different, a transcoding to H.264 would be required, but AFAIK, iOS media player only supports H.264 (and H.265 lately). YouTube provides streams in these formats and resolutions. VP9 seems to be used mostly for UHD and HDR representations. I'd imagine YT player simply requests H.264 stream in FullHD, when AirPlay is turned on.
2. In case of mirrroring (you will see OS UI elements on big screen), the situation is different. UI is created in GPU and stored in framebuffer as exact bitmap representation of the screen (inside Mac, iPhone or iPad). This format is not transferable over network for bandwidth requirement reasons. Most computer screens also have different resolutions than TV screens, so pixels do not match. So iPhone/iPad/Mac takes its framebuffer and compresses it to H.264 video stream. That needs to be done at least 24 times every second. So they use built-in hardware video encoder to achieve this encoding speed. If your screen contains a moving video, that becomes decoded, rendered for screen and then encoded for sending over network for AirPlay. So here a) double and partly unnecessary work is performed and b) the video sent over network is not the same (quality) as the original. It has been decompressed for screen presentation and then compressed again for AirPlay.

In my experience, the iPhone hands off the IP address of the stream to the Apple TV. In the case of an App generated stream, it’s handed off to an available tvOS app. If my ATV is not connected to the internet, AirPlay will not mirror the stream from my iPhone.

 

[priitv8]

In my experience, the iPhone hands off the IP address of the stream to the Apple TV. In the case of an App generated stream, it’s handed off to an available tvOS app. If my ATV is not connected to the internet, AirPlay will not mirror the stream from my iPhone.

I was thinking about that yesterday, but handoff does not seem to be part of AirPlay protocol.
As soon as I turn off my iPhone, playback from a video stream (safari, youtube app) stops as well.
aTV connection to internet may be required for authentication. It has always been for HomeSharing (iTunes account auth seems to be involved), but AirPlay pushed from device should not. Might have changed in 12?

 

[Mac 128]

I was thinking about that yesterday, but handoff does not seem to be part of AirPlay protocol.
As soon as I turn off my iPhone, playback from a video stream (safari, youtube app) stops as well.
aTV connection to internet may be required for authentication. It has always been for HomeSharing (iTunes account auth seems to be involved), but AirPlay pushed from device should not. Might have changed in 12?

Perhaps authentication is he issue. However, this goes back to the Apple TV 3 which I bought specifically because it was supposed to enable direct streaming over Airplay from a device without being connected to a network. What I discovered is internet based content would not stream without the ATV being connected to the internet. So my experience is mainly based on pre-iOS 12.

My reaction to your comment about the stream stopping when you turn off your iPhone makes sense to me, since the iPhone is the de facto controller, even if the burden of streaming from the internet is being handled by the ATV. In the same way, I might assume the ATV remote is controlling the phone, rather than the ATV, and perhaps it is. But when I turn off the ATV, it likewise stops the iPhone. All that is to say, I’m not surprised that the reverse is true as well.

I have not looked at the code, so I’m just guessing here based on my observations. If there’s no handoff protocol in the AirPlay code, then obviously this is impossible.

What I do know is that up until iOS 11.4, I could stream from the internet via AirPlay from my phone, and that stream would continue whether the phone screen turned off, or if I pressed the power button to turn it off. After that, it disconnects in those events. I believe some video Apps which are streaming via AirPlay will continue even after the screen has been turned off. I haven’t really tested it thoroughly since upgrading to 12 but I’ll give it some effort and see how I currently observe it to behave.

 

[Pconcerts]

The Apple TV will upscale your content to 4K and send the TV a 4K signal, but it will auto match for SDR, HDR, or DV. If the encoding for HDR or DV is offered, it will be passed through to the TV to present in the supported format. It's the TV that does the actual implementation of HDR, the Apple TV just tells the TV that it's sending an HDR signal. This is why setting the default output to HDR is bad, because the ATV tells the TV that everything is HDR, and the TV applies its HDR settings to content that isn't mastered for it.

So I have a sony x940-e and have my TV set with all these settings. Works great but when the signal for DV goes to my receiver to the tv it looks so dark compared to watching movies I'm 4K. Any sort of settings can fix this? The new Apple TV of course didn't fix it. I just tried out new Sony tv vudu DV app update and that is def brighter than the ATV

 

[Mac 128]

So I have a sony x940-e and have my TV set with all these settings. Works great but when the signal for DV goes to my receiver to the tv it looks so dark compared to watching movies I'm 4K. Any sort of settings can fix this? The new Apple TV of course didn't fix it. I just tried out new Sony tv vudu DV app update and that is def brighter than the ATV

I assume you’ve adjusted your settings for the input? If your 940E works like my 900E, the HDMI input will have its own settings, and then when in DV mode, you can further adjust settings that will only engage when in DV, which don’t affect non-DV/HDR settings. Mostly I think it’s brightness levels.

I’m not aware of any way to adjust the brightness levels output by the ATV.

 

[priitv8]

Also, check this thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/enabling-dolby-vision-makes-colors-look-darker.2122717/

 

[Mellofello808]

4k Arial screensavers.

 

[ghughes20]

I like the network aps on ATV. Here's a recent experience I had that helps illustrate the usefulness of ATV. My wife wanted to watch an old episode of This Is Us from the first season. She found the episode on our TV provider's VOD. We use FIOS for TV. There was a charge to watch this episode!!! I think it was $2-$3, not expensive, but still, it feels silly to pay for broadcast TV. Surely enough, we were able to find the episode on the NBC app on ATV. The episode was free, as I suspect all of their original content via the NBC app.

 

[Mac 128]

I like the network aps on ATV. Here's a recent experience I had that helps illustrate the usefulness of ATV. My wife wanted to watch an old episode of This Is Us from the first season. She found the episode on our TV provider's VOD. We use FIOS for TV. There was a charge to watch this episode!!! I think it was $2-$3, not expensive, but still, it feels silly to pay for broadcast TV. Surely enough, we were able to find the episode on the NBC app on ATV. The episode was free, as I suspect all of their original content via the NBC app.

This is a complex issue. Typically the networks will provide free access to new programs shortly after they air, for a limited time (maybe 2-3 weeks) and then restrict access, unless you have a service provider like Comcast, or Directv. Then you may have access to the entire season. Typically licensing restrictions will limit the availability of a new series, whereas older shows may be fully available. Sometimes networks won’t offer a new episode until several days to a week after it originally airs. Some networks restrict access to more popular shows to subscription access after a certain point.

The reality is, that with a little management you can probably watch most of your network shows for free, but since it’s handled differently for all networks, and even inconsistently within networks, it can be challenging.

 

[NCWildcat]

I got a TCL Series 6 with built in Roku and barely use my ATV3 any more. The Roku App Store is huge and I have found every app I need. I can use one input (and one remote) for Netflix, Amazon, Playstation Vue, ESPN, and Movies Anyware is huge (I just wish more film studios would participate). The interface is not as nice but I don't really care as the extreme convenience far outweighs a pretty UI for me.

The only reason I see for getting a 4K ATV would be if I invested heavily in HomeKit devices.

 

[400]

4k Arial screensavers.

Indeed, they are stunning. But they drip feed them through, a few at time. I am sure there is a health of 4K available for the screen savers.

Not that I spend all day looking at them but nice to have on when pootling around the house.

 

[AlterZgo]

Another reason to get an ATV: Dolby Atmos. Even the newest TVs out today don't support E-ARC. As such, if you want to have Dolby Atmos or other mutli-channel audio beyond 5.1 send a signal from the TV to your receiver, the TV can't do it and/or the receiver can't receive it through standard ARC. So, if you have true Dolby Atmos set up (not the ones from a sound bar but one that has actual height speakers, etc.) the only way to get the signal to the speakers is with an ATV 4K or other streaming device that's connected directly to the Dolby Atmost capable receiver first. Some of the newest TVs and receivers support E-ARC and can pass Dolby Atmos from the TV itself to the receiver, but this is very rare even today.