4k TVs are so advanced, whats the point of Apple TV 4k?

[err404]

I just bought a Samsung TV and I have to say- I agree with the above poster. We use the Apple TV very rarely now, and the greatest benefit I have noticed is we no longer have to use the Apple TV remote with its stupid "gesture based" finger sliding control! The TV remote took over controlling it- very impressed. So for those rare times when we use it, we can use the tv remote.

I’m not questioning your choice, but did you know that the Apple TV can work with just about any remote? It accepts IR and can learn codes like a reverse universal remote.
I use my Harmony for almost everything, but will pull out my phone for a the widget, keyboard or mic occasionally

 

[Tim7]

For me, the aTV 4K is a much nicer interface than my Panasonic TV. Also, my Panasonic CX802B can do HDR but the TV Netflix app doesn't support HDR, whereas the aTV does!

 

[priitv8]

Yes, 2017 LG OLED.

Good to know.

Unfortunately the last part is not true in this case. I have a K950 atmos soundbar, and it has been well documented amongst us users that it will not support atmos via the arc connection, only through the other hdmi inputs, regardless of my tv's (lg oled b7p) ability to send it over arc.

I see, So all ARC is not created equal. My AVR, indeed does play Atmos over ARC, just not the TrueHD-based.
PS I still did not get it - has the K950 ARC no-Atmos condition also been confirmed via DD+ stream?
It will take some effort to actually get a DD+ Atmos stream. One option I know of, is the Dolby Atmos Demo Blu-Ray. These clips contain 2 audio tracks - TrueHD and DD+. You need to make sure that your player plays the DD+ track.

 

[Michelasso]

Well, I can talk as an Italian Android TV user on Sony Bravia. These are the Pros and Cons of Android TV on Bravia vs Apple TV 4K:

ANDROID TV:
CONS:

• Slow to a pain. Even the GUI lags. Going into Settings takes seconds (even 10 in some case. 20 watching a video)
• The HDR content far too often looks weird. Too washed.
• There isn't a single, decent media player that does everything at reasonable performances. They either crash, or they are too slow, or they do not support this or that. Kodi v18 alpha would do, but it's too slow
• The volume bar is broken (oh yeah). It goes by itself.
• It only supports DD/DD+ 5.1 and AAC 2.0 (internally or via audio passthrough)
• HDMI ARC would be limited as well
• Amazon Video is a stuttering machine
• Grey letterbox bars on most apps while watching HDR content
• 100Mbps max network interface(s)
• Only 8GB of internal memory
• The USB interface is broken. Can't extend the memory. And the rare cases it works it goes up to 30MB/s max.
• No HDR (profile VP9.2) in YouTube app.
• Bugs all over.

PROS:

• It has many Italian apps not available on ATV4K (like TIMvision, Mediaset, Sky's Now TV and so on)
• Chromecast (but I never use it, since most apps are already implemented for Android TV as well)
• One can add USB drives with media content.
• YouTube plays 4K content
• Kodi fully supported

APPLE TV 4K:
CONS:

• It lacks many Italian video streaming services
• No TV App in Italy
• No Siri support in Italy
• No native Hi-Res audio
• The remote should allow some tweaking (I want to disable that useless in Italy search button for starting. Play/Pause should be at the top and "Back" at the bottom, like in all remotes). The touchpad takes a bit but at the end is functional.
• YouTube app only at 1080p at the moment. No HDR (ever?).
• Kodi must be installed every week with a free dev account. Or one must pay too much otherwise.

PROS:

• Blazing fast in everything
• Great GUI.
• Better colour management. Not sure why/how.
• It integrates well with the Apple eco-system.
• 1Gbps network interface. No more network buffering and thus no need for local USB disk.
• Infuse. All my local media streaming nightmares are over. I basically bought it for it.
• iTunes Movies has a great selection of 4K/HDR/DV content at reasonable prices.
• DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD support at least in Infuse
• It allows to add and configure any IR remote.
• Standard video player interface for most apps (only MrMC/Kodi actually use different ones).
• Amazon's Prime Video is fast, has a great interface (see above), and I never get any stuttering.
• It miraculously fixes the Bravia's volume bar, when changing volume from the TV remote!!
• Never a serious bug. Just few glitches in the beta here and there.

Let's say that at this point for my needs the ATV 4K is a must. Whatever is missing can be integrated by Android TV. Which isn't much, really, only TIMvision which comes free with my ISP.

 

[ErikGrim]

Well, I can talk as an Italian Android TV user on Sony Bravia. These are the Pros and Cons of Android TV on Bravia vs Apple TV 4K:

This is an excellent overview, especially from an international perspective. Thank you.

 

[Bobby dazzler]

I've been using an apple tv for the last few years very happily with my (now) dinosaur-ed old TV. Having bought a lovely new LG 2017 4k tv, the OS on it seems pretty damned good: Netflix, Amazon, Youtube, NAS streaming with Plex, BBC iplayer, etc all in fabulous resolution and the TV seamlessly picks the correct resolution without me having to guess or change settings.

So I'm just wondering since everyone talking on here about the Apple TV 4k must equally have a new TV with an equally good inbuilt OS, what are you all doing by adding an extra box? What is the value that you see, other than adding itunes as a subscription source which is no big deal given all the others out there, and adding some games which equally seems no big deal if you have a proper gaming machine under the telly.

Am I missing something? Genuinely, I expected to hop out and buy a new apple 4k box to fit underneath the new tv and am struggling to see a reason why. Plus I see all these complaints about it not really handling the resolution or the colour stream or the sound particularly well...

Well, the first thing I looked forward to after buying the 4K tv was the ATV4K. Apple are upgrading your HD movies to 4K for free as and when they get moved over to 4K. How great is that!
True, there are Apps that I don't get on ATV4K that I can get on the 4KTV, but ATV4K is HDR4K which I don't get from the other apps, right?

 

[danny842003]

For me the reasons are:

Samsung interface is awful and very laggy at times.

I have over 8000 photos in my iCloud and having access to them on the tv is probably my favourite feature.

Access to Apple Music

EPL rights in oz are owned by a mobile company and they have an app for the atv but don’t for Android tv. It’s much more convenient than trying to mirror it to the TV from my phone.

 

[Michelasso]

This is an excellent overview, especially from an international perspective. Thank you.

Well.. thank You!

 

[kemkem]

I have sadly found that the Netflix app on my Sony has far superior picture quality than the ATV, especially with HDR shows.

The HDR output from the ATV seems to have a lot of issues and when I use it now it is in SDR only.

Aside from that the Sony TV smart phone supports dolby atmos while apple tv 4K does not.
[doublepost=1528744249][/doublepost]I have the Sony XBR 65X750D and apple tv 4K and I can tell you the sony smart tv is far better. The resolution beats apple tv and while it supports dolby atoms, apple tv does not. I heard apple tv is coming up with software update later in the fall for dolby atmos support.

 

[Andrewtst]

Very simple. I prefer Apple 4K TV because it support more apps and the most important Movies in iTunes.

Don't told me using Movies Anywhere because this Movies Anywhere not support playback titles in 4K or 4K HDR. Also I think only Google TV OS and Apple tvOS have this apps

https://help.moviesanywhere.com/hc/...03-Does-Movies-Anywhere-support-3D-4K-or-HDR-

Beside this, Apple 4K TV Netflix run much smoother, nicer and better (always in highest quality never drop down the resolution) than my Panasonic 2017 model TV or my another Android TV Box - Mi Box which broken in HDR and Deep Color support.

 

[Mac 128]

Aside from that the Sony TV smart phone supports dolby atmos while apple tv 4K does not.
[doublepost=1528744249][/doublepost]I have the Sony XBR 65X750D and apple tv 4K and I can tell you the sony smart tv is far better. The resolution beats apple tv and while it supports dolby atoms, apple tv does not. I heard apple tv is coming up with software update later in the fall for dolby atmos support.

What Apps in Sony's Android TV OS Bravia TVs support Dolby Atmos?

Also, I disagree that the built-in Apps look better than the Apple TV 4K. I have the Song 65x900E, which is a few steps up from your model, and I prefer the picture coming from the Apple TV 4K in every case. Perhaps you do not have the Apple TV 4K ouput set correctly? Native resolution is preferred as the Sony TVs upscale better than the ATV 4K, but the picture otherwise beats the Sony with no question.

 

[vipergts2207]

What Apps in Sony's Android TV OS Bravia TVs support Dolby Atmos?

Also, I disagree that the built-in Apps look better than the Apple TV 4K. I have the Song 65x900E, which is a few steps up from your model, and I prefer the picture coming from the Apple TV 4K in every case. Perhaps you do not have the Apple TV 4K ouput set correctly? Native resolution is preferred as the Sony TVs upscale better than the ATV 4K, but the picture otherwise beats the Sony with no question.

He’s probably got the TV in torch mode on his ATV HDMI input lol.

 

[priitv8]

... I can tell you the sony smart tv is far better. The resolution beats apple tv ...

In which way? Both support 3840x2160, 60Hz, HDR. How can one beat the other? If you are referring to quality of iTunes movies, then this is not something you'd blame on apple TV.

What Apps in Sony's Android TV OS Bravia TVs support Dolby Atmos?

The Video app. It seems to be bitstreaming whatever audio track you have in the file. Only limiting factor is the HDMI ARC, hence your Atmos needs to be encoded onto DD+.

 

[Mac 128]

The Video app. It seems to be bitstreaming whatever audio track you have in the file. Only limiting factor is the HDMI ARC, hence your Atmos needs to be encoded onto DD+.

Ah. I would venture to say most people buying a Smart TV to stream video are not doing it via the finicky Video app from a file server or attached drive. I've read countless issues regarding reliable use of the Sony Video app in AVS forums, even from those videophiles who know what they're doing. Most prefer VLC, or Plex, etc. But most people are streaming Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, GooglePlay, Vudu and Hulu, and I'm not aware of a single one of those Apps on the Sony/Android TV platform that supports it.

 

[priitv8]

Ah. I would venture to say most people buying a Smart TV to stream video are not doing it via the finicky Video app from a file server or attached drive.

It is a very basic video player and has had its issues (like the aspect ratio problem). But it supports subtitles and multtiple audio tracks and seems to bitstream to ARC.
I am not streaming, although I might try to do it off my Plex server, over DLNA.
So far, I have just a USB3.0 drive attached to the Bravia and that's it.
I use it as little as possible, because its UX is horrible. Especially how the folder browsing has been implemented. Understandably, no metadata support whatsoever, only filename navigation.

Another problem: to watch Dolby Vision videos, I need to connect it to Bravia, then I lose TrueHD Atmos. To hear TrueHD / Atmos, I need to connect it to Blu-ray player. Then I lose Dolby Video. Although HDR10 is retained.

That explains, why I do like the apple TV

 

[Mrbobb]

There is no AirPlay on TVs?

 

[Michelasso]

But (Sony's Video) supports subtitles and multtiple audio tracks and seems to bitstream to ARC.

I have tested it plenty. Via DLNA it obviously supports only embedded subtitles, not external one. Not sure from a local or USB disk. Also because I don't know where to look for subs management in that app. It's too basic.

Still it does bitstream (at most) everything supported by HDMI 2.0 ARC, which isn't much. No Hi-Res audio for example. But it's the only app I tested in my Bravia (and they have been many) showing the DTS logo in my AVR, since the DTS passthrough was broken (not sure if it still is after the last FW update. I couldn't care less anymore). Kodi converts it to AC3/EAC3.

I think Video passes through AAC 5.1 as well. Otherwise restricted to AAC 2.0 in Plex and other apps (I don't remember about Kodi). In any case for real audio support HDMI ARC is insufficient, no matter the TV/OS. Some TVs should support (or they were rumoured to do so) HDMI eARC via HDMI 2.0, but if I understood correctly they need a compatible receiver. In other words for Hi-Res audio currently a TV box with HDMI 2.0 is a must.

 

[priitv8]

I have tested it plenty. Via DLNA it obviously supports only embedded subtitles, not external one. Not sure from a local or USB disk. Also because I don't know where to look for subs management in that app. It's too basic.

That is true, but I do not care about external subs, my files all have them embedded. I just take the time to do this.

 

[happyhippo1337]

For me the ATV 4K has the worst experience compared to my Panasonic and Sony TVs and the PS4 Pro.

ATV4K:

• YouTube only in 1080p - no HDR
• Prime Video only in 1080p
• Netflix Dolby Vision looks terribly bad with every imaginable setting
• Prime Video looks way worse than on the integrated app or PS4 Pro
• Often won't wake up from standby

 

[Michelasso]

For me the ATV 4K has the worst experience compared to my Panasonic and Sony TVs and the PS4 Pro.

ATV4K:

• YouTube only in 1080p - no HDR
• Prime Video only in 1080p
• Netflix Dolby Vision looks terribly bad with every imaginable setting
• Prime Video looks way worse than on the integrated app or PS4 Pro
• Often won't wake up from standby

I can't talk about Dolby Vision, but Prime Video does play in 4K HDR:

Also it is a much smoother experience than with my Bravia TV where the audio still stutters.

But I agree YouTube is a shame. I am not sure how the iPhone X plays YouTube in HDR (but only at 1080p?), maybe with a SW decoder for VP9.2, still I believe the ATV4K HW is powerful enough for a similar HDR solution at 1080p. Still, Android TV doesn't play YouTube in HDR either, only 4K. Sideloading SmartYouTube I manage to play YouTube HDR content, but with the wrong colour space (BT.2020 doesn't get applied). There is 30 or 40 pages long in the UK Sony support forum about this.

 

[Andrewtst]

For me the ATV 4K has the worst experience compared to my Panasonic and Sony TVs and the PS4 Pro.

ATV4K:

• YouTube only in 1080p - no HDR
• Prime Video only in 1080p
• Netflix Dolby Vision looks terribly bad with every imaginable setting
• Prime Video looks way worse than on the integrated app or PS4 Pro
• Often won't wake up from standby

1. Agree YouTube no good in 1080p only but Android TV itself also can't playback in 4K HDR but 4K only. My Panasonic TV do playback in 4K HDR.
2. Amazon Prime Video support up to 4K HDR.
3. No Dolby Vision TV can't comment but I don't have visual playback issue in HDR10.
4. Look the same as my TV and Ultra-HD Blu-ray player.
5. Never happen before. ATV 4K is freaking smooth to me and very stable.

 

[RamGuy]

What content do you watch on YouTube that excels in 4K? Most of the channels I watch doesn't offer 4K to begin with, and the few that do doesn't give any noticeable improvement due to their lacklustre 4K equipment so it doesn't really bring much to the table in terms of quality. I actually prefer 1080P@60 over 4K@30 9 out of 10 times and the Apple TV supports 1080P@60. The lack of HDR is a bummer, but again 99,99% of the videos I watch on YouTube is non-HDR 1080P@60 or 1440P@30 at best.

And even-though the new YouTube-app is really lacklustre compared to the previous one its still better and easier to navigate compared to the one in WebOS on my LG OLED65C7 TV. Amazon Prime Video and Netflix both plays 4K HDR without any issues so I notice zero differences compared to the apps other than navigation on the Apple TV being smoother.

But I mostly use Infuse Pro to playback 4K HDR Blu-Ray rips from my Plex Server and that works amazingly well and looks better than anything I could possibly get using WebOS on my LG OLED.

Sadly tvOS does not have any official Twitch.tv-app, but we have Twitchy which works great whereas WebOS on the LG OLED doesn't have anything even half-decent in order to playback Twitch.tv-streams and without built-in ChromeCast its impossible to get Twitch working directly on the TV.


I also have a Xbox One X and a PlayStation 4 Pro, but apps on the Xbox One X is painfully slow to start and navigation using the Xbox One controller is just awkward. The PlayStation 4 Pro is better, but navigation is still not close to the Apple TV 4K and it lacks Dolby Vision and there is nothing that makes me capable of playing back my 4K HDR Blu-Ray rips from my Plex-server.
[doublepost=1529488985][/doublepost]Another reason of course is longevity and support. tvOS will certainly get new features, improvements and updates for years to come while Smart-TV's normally go end-of-life after like two years tops.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Very little point in complaining about YouTube not being in 4K at present. Wait a year until they go with AV1. Exciting times ahead

 

[Mac 128]

What content do you watch on YouTube that excels in 4K? Most of the channels I watch doesn't offer 4K to begin with, and the few that do doesn't give any noticeable improvement due to their lacklustre 4K equipment so it doesn't really bring much to the table in terms of quality. I actually prefer 1080P@60 over 4K@30 9 out of 10 times and the Apple TV supports 1080P@60. The lack of HDR is a bummer, but again 99,99% of the videos I watch on YouTube is non-HDR 1080P@60 or 1440P@30 at best.

YouTube supports GooglePlay Libraries. The same issue aplies to GooglePlay as well. So if you’re heavily invested in a movie library built through Google Play, YouTube allows access to them on an Apple TV. You can also use MoviesAnywhere to get them into iTunes, or Prime, but some studios movies won’t cross over, and some are limited to 1080p.

Currently the only way to get 4K HDR via YouTube is by Chromecast from an iPhone or iPad to a TV that supports it. But it works well. Some of those YouTube UHD HDR demos really showcase my Sony Bravia panel.
[doublepost=1529504738][/doublepost]

For me the ATV 4K has the worst experience compared to my Panasonic and Sony TVs and the PS4 Pro.

ATV4K:

• YouTube only in 1080p - no HDR
• Prime Video only in 1080p
• Netflix Dolby Vision looks terribly bad with every imaginable setting
• Prime Video looks way worse than on the integrated app or PS4 Pro
• Often won't wake up from standby

1. You don’t have HDR on your Sony TVs either.
2. Wrong. Prime supports full 4K UHD and HDR/DV
3. Netflix, as well as every other app looks much better on my ATV than the built-in Sony Apps.
4. I don’t have a PS4, but see 3 above.
5. I never have a problem waking from standby.

I have a state of the art Sony Bravia TV and the Apple TV blows the internal apps away. I never use the TVs smart features as Android TV OS is a train wreck. And I wouldn’t trade the ATV remote and trackpad for anything.

Given your issues, I’d suggest you check your cables and settings on both the ATV and TVs. The Sony in particular has a much better upscaler than the ATV. I’d suggest auto match for all settings, and manually switch into and out of 4K content, rather than let the ATV upscale HD content to 4K.

So really, of your 5 points, the only major thing you’re lacking is 4K UHD on YouTube, which unless you have a substantial movie library, youre not really missing anything.

 

[Tech198]

I think if you have an LG TV then you may have a point because that interface is really good. Sony’s Android tv is trash as an interface and I just want to avoid using it.

In all, I have a lot of different ways to view 4k content but all of them have varying problems. Xbox One gives me a voice sync delay that happens randomly and no one seems to have solved. My cable box is ok for tv but not for internet services like YouTube and Vimeo etc...

Android tv is trash.

So the reason for Apple TV is it just has the best, smoothest UI and is integrated with my “digital life”. My podcasts play from when I left off on my phone or iPad. All my content, photos etc.. across all my devices is reflected on the Apple TV. And of all the digital media libraries that you can invest in Apple have proved that they have got your back better than anyone. They’ve never cancelled a service and anything you have purchased since iTunes / movies began is still accessible. I bet that’s not the same for any other company.

For example, to buy a movie on amazon tv through the Xbox or my Android tv means I have to go to the site on my browser in my phone to make a purchase. It’s just too long winded. Apple ID just click and I’m done. And now 4k content is there (and cheaper than anywhere else) then it’s just becomes the system that is the easiest to use and provides the most.
And because of the App Store it’s easier to expand its functionality as well.

Apple TV is a luxury. You don’t NEED it but it’s just quite nice to have. But that is the story of most gadgets nowadays.

Actually i can see one good reason for Apple TV... If you don't all watch the same TV in your place like i do.. and wanna watch different things at the same time..

We have a TV in the lounge and bedroom... so why should we BOTH upgrade when we can have Apple TV's connected.

Plus not all manufacture can provide and apps on these smart-TV's are kept up to days with the same range of apps from the App Store.

The main ones would probably likely be available on smart TV, but how often are they updated ?