MP 1,1-5,1 5,1 Upgrade

[theMarble]

Hello!

So I'm going to be replacing my current 2015 15" MBP with a 5,1 very soon as the MBP is really slow these days for my workflow.
I've decided on x2 X5690's, 64GB DDR3 1333MHz (Non-ECC), Syba IO-Crest SI-PEX40129 (NVMe Host), RocketU 1144D (USB3 Card), an OSXWifi WiFi+BT card, x2 ADATA SX8200 Pro NVMe SSD's, x1 860 EVO 1TB SATA SSD and x2 Seagate 6TB Exos SATA HDD's.

The only part I'm stuck on is the GPU. I've been looking at the Sapphire Pulse RX580 and the PowerColor Red Dragon 5700 XT. I'll be driving a single LG 38" 3840x1600 monitor. The 5700XT performs better but you've got to do the Pixlas Mod. How easy/hard is the Pixlas Mod to do for the first time?

Thanks!

 

[DoctorZoidberg]

Hi! As long as you source the correct parts (House of Moth could be great), and you are confident working inside your Mac Pro... if you are going to change CPUs, you are able to maje the mod. Is very simple.
Good luck!

 

[michaelz]

Sorry, I couldn't find the original post on this forum. But I installed Sapphire Pulse 5700XT with this:

1. Dual mini 6 pin to 8 pin adapter.
2. Dual SATA power to 6 pin adapter.
3. 6 pin power extension cable.

No pixlas mode and works great!

For RAM, you should use triple channel setup (leave slot 4 and 8 empty).

 

[theMarble]

Hi! As long as you source the correct parts (House of Moth could be great), and you are confident working inside your Mac Pro... if you are going to change CPUs, you are able to maje the mod. Is very simple.
Good luck!

Good to know. I've seen that it can be done in less than an hour so that's a good sign. I'm changing CPUs so might aswell do it.
[automerge]1601245529[/automerge]

Sorry, I couldn't find the original post on this forum. But I installed Sapphire Pulse 5700XT with this:

1. Dual mini 6 pin to 8 pin adapter.
2. Dual SATA power to 6 pin adapter.
3. 6 pin power extension cable.

No pixlas mode and works great!

For RAM, you should use triple channel setup (leave slot 4 and 8 empty).

So 96GB RAM then? (16GB x6)
I'm wanting to use other PCIe slots and both ODD drives so I'm going to do the Pixlas Mod.

 

[michaelz]

So 96GB RAM then? (16GB x6)

Yes.

 

[mattspace]

I've decided on x2 X5690's, 64GB DDR3 1333MHz (Non-ECC)

Why go out of your way to get non-ECC RAM? 16GB sticks are cheap, and even server-pulls by parts resellers come with lifetime warranties.

 

[theMarble]

Why go out of your way to get non-ECC RAM? 16GB sticks are cheap, and even server-pulls by parts resellers come with lifetime warranties.

I've ended up going with ECC (RDIMMS) as where I live ECC DDR3 is really expensive still in high capacities but turns out Amazon has a kit for $250 USD. (It would of costed around $500 USD to get it at a retailer)

 

[mattspace]

I've ended up going with ECC (RDIMMS) as where I live ECC DDR3 is really expensive still in high capacities but turns out Amazon has a kit for $250 USD. (It would of costed around $500 USD to get it at a retailer)

OK, not to induce buyer's remorse or anything, but FYI my last RAM purchase (mid 2019) was from Data Memory Systems in America, and was US$122 inc shipping to Australia for 3x 16gb. As I mentioned, it's all server-pull stuff, but they do a lifetime warranty.

Not an ad - I've bought from them twice (2015 & 2019) and the price went from $179 per stick, to $35 per stick over that time. Second set had one go bad shortly after, airmailed it back, and they sent me a replacement.

 

[theMarble]

OK, not to induce buyer's remorse or anything, but FYI my last RAM purchase (mid 2019) was from Data Memory Systems in America, and was US$122 inc shipping to Australia for 3x 16gb. As I mentioned, it's all server-pull stuff, but they do a lifetime warranty.

Not an ad - I've bought from them twice (2015 & 2019) and the price went from $179 per stick, to $35 per stick over that time. Second set had one go bad shortly after, airmailed it back, and they sent me a replacement.

Interesting, I haven't bought the RAM yet but nice to know. Did you get it on Amazon as I'm getting all of the parts (expect the cMP itself) on there.

 

[michaelz]

Why not ebay? I got most my cMP parts from ebay.

 

[Grumply]

I have the Red Dragon 5700XT in my 5,1 currently. It has a TDP of 225w, so you can actually run it safely from the two mini six-pin adapters if you use the EVGA power adapter, or split the load using a dual mini six-pin to 8-pin adapter, that's then fed into a 8-pin to dual 8-pin adapter.

The more overclocked 5700XTs need Pixlas, but they're also taller than the dual-slot width of the Red Dragon, so you lose access to one of your PCIe ports if you use those.

That makes the Red Dragon the pick of the bunch to my eye.

 

[mattspace]

Interesting, I haven't bought the RAM yet but nice to know. Did you get it on Amazon as I'm getting all of the parts (expect the cMP itself) on there.

No just bought it from DMS direct - I know there's generally rules here about not advertising or pimping individual companies too much, but I learned about them from another member here back when I started down the cMP hotrodding path years ago.

 

[theMarble]

I have the Red Dragon 5700XT in my 5,1 currently. It has a TDP of 225w, so you can actually run it safely from the two mini six-pin adapters if you use the EVGA power adapter, or split the load using a dual mini six-pin to 8-pin adapter, that's then fed into a 8-pin to dual 8-pin adapter.

The more overclocked 5700XTs need Pixlas, but they're also taller than the dual-slot width of the Red Dragon, so you lose access to one of your PCIe ports if you use those.

That makes the Red Dragon the pick of the bunch to my eye.

So if I use the EVGA PowerLink with the 8-pin and 6-pin connectors on it, then using the 2x 8-pin to 2x Mini 6-pin, I don't need the Pixlas mod? I'm doing very intensive work so is power consumption an issue?

 

[tsialex]

So if I use the EVGA PowerLink with the 8-pin and 6-pin connectors on it, then using the 2x 8-pin to 2x Mini 6-pin, I don't need the Pixlas mod? I'm doing very intensive work so is power consumption an issue?

This juggling with adapters don't change the fact that without Pixla's mod, at best, the backplane can safely provide 95W + 95W from the PCIe AUX Boost connectors A and B and most modern GPUs only use 30 to 45W from the PCIe slot.

Stretching, you can power a 235W GPU without a Pixla's mod - the power envelope of a VEGA 56 dual bios on the lowest power setting and some low power non-OC RX 5700 (non XT).

 

[theMarble]

This juggling with adapters don't change the fact that without Pixla's mod, at best, the backplane can safely provide 95W + 95W from the PCIe AUX Boost connectors A and B and most modern GPUs only use 30 to 45W from the PCIe slot.

Stretching, you can power a 235W GPU - the power envelope of a VEGA 56 dual bios on the lowest power setting and some RX 5700 (non XT).

So your saying the 5700XT Red Dragon should work fine. Just not cards like the VII and Vega 64.

 

[tsialex]

So your saying the 5700XT Red Dragon should work fine. Just not cards like the VII and Vega 64.

Nope, I'm saying that a Red Dragon 5700XT it's not safe at all.

Various reviews show that this card can use around 270W (Tom's Hardware show even more) and will damage the backplane in the long run. The PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT can use ~30W more than the reference VEGA 56, see below:

 

[theMarble]

Nope, I'm saying that a Red Dragon 5700XT it's not safe at all.

Various reviews show that this card can use around 270W (Tom's Hardware show even more) and will damage the backplane in the long run. The PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT can use ~30W more than the reference VEGA 56, see below:

But that is the Red Devil, not the Red Dragon. The Devil is an OC card with higher power consumption than the Dragon, plus the Red Dragon is working in Grumply's 5,1 above??? I'm doing the Pixlas Mod anyway just incase I upgrade to a higher powered card later on.

 

[tsialex]

But that is the Red Devil, not the Red Dragon. The Devil is an OC card with higher power consumption than the Dragon, plus the Red Dragon is working in your system??? I'm doing the Pixlas Mod anyway just incase I upgrade to a higher powered card later on.

Sorry by my mistake messing Dragon and Devil models, but won't change the fact that a reference 5700 XT card (227W) is at the point of the line for what is considered safe - it will work for some people and not for others.

Several people here use 5700 XT models with eVGA PowerLinks and don't have SMC power cut outs on the day-by-day, but it's a card that is over the power envelope of a Mac Pro and if you going to use the GPU full throttle, just do a Pixla's mod - backplanes are more difficult to source and costlier each day.

 

[Grumply]

So if I use the EVGA PowerLink with the 8-pin and 6-pin connectors on it, then using the 2x 8-pin to 2x Mini 6-pin, I don't need the Pixlas mod? I'm doing very intensive work so is power consumption an issue?

I don't know what your workload is like, but I've had the Red Dragon 5700XT working very hard handling both the decompression and debayering of Redcode Raw footage in Davinci Resolve. And with the accessory power load spread between the two mini 6-pins, I've had no issues whatsoever.

The Red Dragon model does have a TDP of 225w though, and technically your maximum draw on the 5,1's internal power is 225w (75w from the PCIe slot, and 2x 75w from the two mini 6-pins). So you're at the rated limit. Pixlas gives you a greater safety net, so if you want that, then go for it.

But I can report that the Red Dragon has been working very reliably (under heavy loads) on my machine (with the load balanced across the two mini 6-pins).

 

[tsialex]

technically your maximum draw on the 5,1's internal power is 225w (75w from the PCIe slot, and 2x 75w from the two mini 6-pins). So you're at the rated limit. Pixlas gives you a greater safety net, so if you want that, then go for it.

No modern card uses 75W from the PCIe slot, the most recent GPU that used all the power from the PCIe slot was the reference model of RX 480 and we all know what happened back then. After the AMD debacle with RX 480, PC GPUs are designed to use the power supply, not the PCIe slot for power.

The most PCIe slot power hungry card today on the market uses around 40W.

 

[h9826790]

technically your maximum draw on the 5,1's internal power is 225w (75w from the PCIe slot, and 2x 75w from the two mini 6-pins). So you're at the rated limit.

This only true if the card has a single 8pin, or 2x 6pin.

Not applicable for the Red Dragon 5700XT

 

[Bklyn629]

Hello!

So I'm going to be replacing my current 2015 15" MBP with a 5,1 very soon as the MBP is really slow these days for my workflow.
I've decided on x2 X5690's, 64GB DDR3 1333MHz (Non-ECC), Syba IO-Crest SI-PEX40129 (NVMe Host), RocketU 1144D (USB3 Card), an OSXWifi WiFi+BT card, x2 ADATA SX8200 Pro NVMe SSD's, x1 860 EVO 1TB SATA SSD and x2 Seagate 6TB Exos SATA HDD's.

The only part I'm stuck on is the GPU. I've been looking at the Sapphire Pulse RX580 and the PowerColor Red Dragon 5700 XT. I'll be driving a single LG 38" 3840x1600 monitor. The 5700XT performs better but you've got to do the Pixlas Mod. How easy/hard is the Pixlas Mod to do for the first time?

Thanks!

I just recently did the pixels mod and it wasn't hard at all. I watched

I watched this tutorial and its very helpful in the step by step for the pixels mod. Im running a Red Devil RX 5700 XT and its great. I came up from the Sapphire RX580 and I noticed an immediate improvement in my FCPX render and export times.

 

[Apple-is-Cool]

I highly recommend the PowerColor Red Dragon RX5700XT + EVGA Powerlink to balance the power. Runs cooler than the two 5700XT reference cards I've tried and doesn't overheat at max load.

 

[Grumply]

This only true if the card has a single 8pin, or 2x 6pin.

Not applicable for the Red Dragon 5700XT

Do you mean the Powercolor’s stated TDP isn’t applicable? Or the power draw that the PCIe slot and mini 6-pins are rated for isn’t applicable?

 

[h9826790]

Do you mean the Powercolor’s stated TDP isn’t applicable? Or the power draw that the PCIe slot and mini 6-pins are rated for isn’t applicable?

"So you're at the rated limit" <- this is not applicable, because the card will NOT draw full 75W from the slot, and will draw more then 150W from the 6+8 pin.

The card has no idea that you connected it to a dual mini 6pin system.

It has 6+8 pin, and can draw up to 225W from the 6+8 only, but still within its rated limit.

Do you think any engineer will programmed the card to draw 75W from the slot (no buffer to the rated limit), and 75W from 6pin (no buffer to the rated limit), but only 75W from the 8pin (only 50% up to the rated limit)?

This may be "what you want", but definitely not "what the card will do".

If you believe the slot rated up to 75W, then the card will draw full 75W from there automatically. Then why not because the 8pin is rated up to 150W, therefore, the card will draw 150W from there?

In reality, if the card can draw up to 300W, but only need 225W, no one will programme it to draw 75W from the slot with zero buffer. As Tsialex mentioned, most modern cards will only draw ~40W from the slot. Which means, the 6+8 pin will draw more than 150W (or in this case, ~180W in total). Even you use something like PowerLink to share the loading, each mini 6pin still need to deliver ~90W. It's higher than the 75W "limit" (there is no official document really shows the mini 6pin is rated up to 75W. However, from memory, one of the user asked Apple, and this is the official reply).

This setup can work, not because the setup is within the rated limit. But because the mini 6pin can actually deliver up to ~120W before shutdown protection kicks in.