5 GB iPod Mini In Production?

[JoePike]

Wow, talk about time zones... You're 10 days early.

Hum, care to send me the winning lottery numbers for this friday?

Yeah, once I saw that little cube-shaped box wrapped under the tree, my wife couldn't restrain me for very long. Plus, my present to her was too big to wrap and she already saw it, so she had to cave in and let me open my present too.

Also, Powerball numbers for this week are: 04, 12, 28, 35, 41, and powerball 18. My cut is 25%.

Man, wouldn't it be crazy if that actually won? I better get to a gas station after work.

-Joe

 

[outerspaceapple]

I think the big story is going to be the release of AAC plus. Sure, the mini will have a bigger HD, but with AAC plus, you'll be able to fit 4,000 songs on it instead of 1,000. That's a BIG story!

Now there is a good point. My current library consists of about 2000 songs, and the only reason i haven't traded my 20GB 3rd gen in for an iPod mini is that I wouldn't be able to fit all my songs in it. Now if i could fit all of 'em in there, i'd buy one in a heartbeat!

One thing you didn't take into account, though; the iPod mini will be upgraded to 5GB, which would be equivalent to 1250 mp3's (at whatever bitrate they advertise now), but this would translate into 5000 songs, not just 4000!


awesome, awesome news. I'm buying one.


~~Eddy~~

 

[Frobozz]

Remember, just because you maybe able to afford an iPod mini there are people who cannot or cannot not justify the price. However a Flash iPod would be affordable and they'd be happy with it.

Agreed. However, if you walk down the streets of Manhattan, you see a throng of white headphones. It unbelievable how many people have one in NYC. Basically, if you see some poor sap with a CD player you feel bad for them. It is seriously an urban phenominon... they're only slightly less common than taxis!

 

[ASP272]

I've always said that I would love to have an iPod mini or one of the new Flash iPods, mostly because I couldn't afford the iPod. But my loving wife surprised me, or should I say the Fed Ex guy surprised me (and her), when he delivered my brand new 20gb iPod yesterday while I was home. I took one look at the small cubed box and the MacMall sticker on the box and screamed, it's an iPod! She was busted. So I got my birthday present early (Dec. 26th is the day). Now that I have a 20gb I don't know what I'd do with anything smaller (especially since my iTunes library is over 30gb). It's awesome, and the 20gb is still pretty small. I really can't run with it, but it'll come in handy while pumping some iron.

I laugh at the 5gb iPod mini. It should be at least 6 to overcome the competition, not just catch up (as I stated in the last rumor about this).

 

[snahabed]

Agreed. However, if you walk down the streets of Manhattan, you see a throng of white headphones. It unbelievable how many people have one in NYC. Basically, if you see some poor sap with a CD player you feel bad for them. It is seriously an urban phenominon... they're only slightly less common than taxis!

Haha I totally think that when I see a CD player!

That said, I am a stealth iPodder, as I use black Sony earbuds (I can't stand Apple's earbud offerings). If only Sony sold the white version in the U.S....

I have seen exactly ONE Zen Micro, and it was this cheesy guy with plucked eyebrows. An ugly terd of a player for... an ugly terd of a player

 

[stealthboy]

A lot of these posts are funny. I can see a headline in many years like "Apple introduces 500 GB ipod" and all the responses here will be along the lines of "man, I'm not buying it until it's 510 GB. Apple it ripping us of", etc, etc,....

How about just buy or not buy what they produce? Must you always find that one thing to complain about? Is that extra one or two GB of music going to really increase your quality of life so much that you should complain?

4GB not enough? 5 GB not enough? Fine, buy a normal iPod with 40GB. or 60. Still not enough? Then don't buy an iPod, or learn to manage your music better using iTunes and lists.

 

[jared_kipe]

I highly doubt that any revision apple could do to the mini will bring anywhere near the demand the last one brought.

 

[bankshot]

With the numbers I've read, AAC plus should be able to deliver the same audio quality at 48kbps as AAC at 128kbps.

I have to admit, I'm a little skeptical of this. I've been doing some reading too, and my impression has been that 80kbps HE-AAC may be similar quality to 128kbps AAC, and maybe down to 64kbps. Even then I have to wonder. The thing is, most things I've read about it are written to say that HE-AAC "improves the sound quality of low bitrate music" over standard AAC. Not that it comes up to 128kbps quality at low bitrates, but that it just sounds "better" than AAC at those same low bitrates. Interpret however you will.

I've been meaning to do some listening tests for myself, but haven't had time.

But if they upgrade the HD to 5GB, that means 3000 songs instead of 1000. A nice "three times more storage space" is easy to use in marketing. It also upgrades all the current (and older?) iPods capacities by 2.5.

The question is, can the other iPods be updated with AACplus? I have doubts for the 1st and 2nd generation, but what about the 3rd? And most important, will Apple update the firmware of the older iPods (if the iPod can do it).

This will be interesting to see what happens. IF Apple adds HE-AAC support to QuickTime, will they add it to the iPods? On the one hand, it significantly increases the audience for the iPod Mini, as people with larger collections will be more likely to buy it. On the other hand, it could significantly decrease the audience for the larger sized iPods or iPod Photo. Who needs 60 GB when your 10,000 songs will fit on a 20 GB iPod for half the price (assuming you don't want/need the photo features)?

Of course, they did update all iPods to support AAC when the music store came out, so who knows.

Will they "updgrade" the iTMS songs to AACplus? Will they keep using the "old" AAC at 128kbps?

Highly doubtful. Unfortunately my understanding is that they don't have "full quality" versions of any of the music in the store. The record companies encoded the tracks as 128kbps AAC and sent them to Apple. To change this in any way will be a long way off, as it would mean getting every record company to re-encode every song. Huge, huge task.

It would have been nice if they'd structured the deal so that Apple would also get full quality digital copies of every song, so then Apple could re-encode to a better codec or bitrate if they wanted. Even if they had proposed this, I'm guessing the record companies would have balked, seeing it as a way for those pesky customers to get more quality than they deserved!

Edit: just realized that with AACplus, I wouldn't even NEED my 10GB iPod, I'd have more than enough space with a 5GB iPod mini! Dark Blue please

This is why I wish Apple would put out some official word one whether HE-AAC is coming, and whether all iPods will be updated to support it. I understand that announcing the 5 GB Mini now, before the holidays and before they're ready, would kill Christmas sales of 4 GB Minis. But if I knew that my wife's current 10 GB collection would eventually fit on a 4 GB Mini in a month or two, I'd buy her one today. An announcement confirming this future plan would actually increase sales now, as the pressure to buy before December 25 is still on.

As it is, I probably won't buy one, because nothing's guaranteed. Apple's loss, for now. Maybe if the 5 GB Minis ship with HE-AAC by early February, I'll get one as a surprise valentine...

 

[NEENAHBOY]

Everyone keep in mind that 5GB is just a RUMOR!!! I personally wouldn't be surprised if it hit 7 or 8GB, but of course they'd have to up the thickness a hair.

 

[Rod Rod]

IF Apple adds HE-AAC support to QuickTime, will they add it to the iPods? On the one hand, it significantly increases the audience for the iPod Mini, as people with larger collections will be more likely to buy it. On the other hand, it could significantly decrease the audience for the larger sized iPods or iPod Photo. Who needs 60 GB when your 10,000 songs will fit on a 20 GB iPod for half the price (assuming you don't want/need the photo features)?

IF that were to happen, the 60GB iPod would fit 30,000 songs, and therefore appeal to everyone who owned a previous generation top-of-the-line iPod.

That's a lot of people. Add to that everyone who's catching on to iPod now, and the proportion of them who just have to own the top model.

 

[macridah]

Good, cuz their won't be agree people waiting forever for an iPod mini, but I'm sure apple didn't want christmas shoppers to know because now they might wait a few days or weeks for the new mini's.

 

[Yvan256]

It wouldn't do both. Only one. 2.86GB of 10GB is 28ish%. So, AAC plus would allow for more songs, but the way you're saying, it wouldn't do it quite that much.

Well, you have to consider that I buy at most 4-5 CDs/albums a year, so it would last me quite a long time. I have 50+ CDs because I had to purchase all the ones that were on my list when I started buying CDs, but right now I couldn't even think of 10 CDs I'd like to buy.

 

[Yvan256]

Yeah, once I saw that little cube-shaped box wrapped under the tree, my wife couldn't restrain me for very long. Plus, my present to her was too big to wrap and she already saw it, so she had to cave in and let me open my present too.

Also, Powerball numbers for this week are: 04, 12, 28, 35, 41, and powerball 18. My cut is 25%.

Man, wouldn't it be crazy if that actually won? I better get to a gas station after work.

-Joe

Cool! If you win, don't forget to send me my 75% cut.

 

[Yvan256]

Agreed. However, if you walk down the streets of Manhattan, you see a throng of white headphones. It unbelievable how many people have one in NYC. Basically, if you see some poor sap with a CD player you feel bad for them. It is seriously an urban phenominon... they're only slightly less common than taxis!

Yeah, but your point of view is Manhattan... Not exactly your run-of-the-mill consumer. That'd be like saying "I can't believe people have a hard time buying BWM's... I see a LOT in Hollywood!"

 

[Yvan256]

Now there is a good point. My current library consists of about 2000 songs, and the only reason i haven't traded my 20GB 3rd gen in for an iPod mini is that I wouldn't be able to fit all my songs in it. Now if i could fit all of 'em in there, i'd buy one in a heartbeat!

One thing you didn't take into account, though; the iPod mini will be upgraded to 5GB, which would be equivalent to 1250 mp3's (at whatever bitrate they advertise now), but this would translate into 5000 songs, not just 4000!


awesome, awesome news. I'm buying one.


~~Eddy~~

I really don't know where you guys took your 32kbps specification for CD-audio quality with AACplus, but what I've read is 48kbps, which requires about 2.5 times less space, not four times less space.

Edit: someone mentionned from 64 to 80kbps, which puts the ratio even lower, from 1.6 to 2.0 times less space.

Still, an updated 5GB iPod mini would store 2000 songs in AACplus at 80kbps, which is exactly double of the 4GB with 128kbps AAC.

I don't know why, but that "2000 instead of 1000" figure kinda seems real to me (the numbers add up too perfectly for all of this not to be true).

 

[Yvan256]

Everyone keep in mind that 5GB is just a RUMOR!!! I personally wouldn't be surprised if it hit 7 or 8GB, but of course they'd have to up the thickness a hair.

5GB is a rumor yes, but someone already pointed out that there isn't anything bigger available right now anyway.

If they want to upgrade the capacity and still use a HD, they can't go higher than 5GB.

 

[bankshot]

IF that were to happen, the 60GB iPod would fit 30,000 songs, and therefore appeal to everyone who owned previous generation top-of-the-line iPod.

That's a lot of people. Add to that everyone who's catching on to iPod now, and the proportion of them who just have to own the top model.

I disagree. I think very few people have 30,000 songs in their library. At least legitimately acquired songs that they listen to on an even semi-regular basis. I have one friend whose dad probably has about 3,000 classical CDs, but he's obviously a rare case.

My library has a bit over 4400 songs, almost exclusively from about 400 CDs I own, plus a few iTMS purchases here and there. I can't think of anyone (besides the guy above, and my sister) who I know personally that has more songs than me. Most people I know have around 1000 songs if that. I think if you were to look at the number of people who have certain music library sizes, it probably falls off rapidly after a few thousand songs.

Let's just say hypothetically that only 1% of people have more than 20,000 songs (again, not counting the people who download anything and everything via illegal file sharing - that hardly counts because you don't have time to listen to it all anyway!). I bet I'm not far off and wouldn't be surprised if the number were actually lower. Let's also say that 10% of people have more than 10,000 songs. As it is, the 60 GB iPod Photo appeals to 10% of the market based on song capacity alone. If they double the song capacity with HE-AAC capability, suddenly the 60 GB appeals to a mere 1%. Apple loses sales on its highest end product.

The point is that Apple could get a lot more people to buy the high end iPods if the lower end models don't get generous bumps in song capacity. Also, people are more apt to upgrade when their music collection outgrows their current iPod, than if it suddenly can hold more songs. This is certainly true no matter how you look at it.

The flip side, as I mentioned before, is that bumping up the song capacity in this way opens up the market for the lower end players to a lot more people. Maybe that's enough to compensate for eating up sales of higher capacity models. Which one is a better business strategy? I don't know, that's why I don't get paid to make decisions like that. I was just pointing out that it's an interesting choice for Apple, should they decide to go down that road.

 

[Rod Rod]

I disagree. I think very few people have 30,000 songs in their library. At least legitimately acquired songs that they listen to on an even semi-regular basis. I have one friend whose dad probably has about 3,000 classical CDs, but he's obviously a rare case.

[snip . . . lowball 1% estimate stuff]

The flip side, as I mentioned before, is that bumping up the song capacity in this way opens up the market for the lower end players to a lot more people. Maybe that's enough to compensate for eating up sales of higher capacity models. Which one is a better business strategy? I don't know, that's why I don't get paid to make decisions like that. I was just pointing out that it's an interesting choice for Apple, should they decide to go down that road.

When it comes to iPod we're not talking about need. It's all about want.

I only have about 1,677 songs. However I really want a 60GB iPod photo or 40GB regular iPod. Either one of those is way above my storage requirement.

Chevrolet sells Corvettes and Cavaliers. Should they stop improving the Cavalier (however incrementally)? Of course not. They improve all their products up and down the line.

A halo product adds prestige (and consequently mindshare) to the brand, and the existence of lower tiers of product does not diminish the halo product. The lower tiers create significantly more revenue and profit than the highest one.

iPod is already a very strong brand, but there is a huge market it's missing at the moment.

That answers your question about business strategy. The idea of having a multi-tiered product line offends all the iPod snobs who think a low-cost iPod will dilute the brand equity or otherwise diminish the higher end models. However, I highly doubt any McLaren F1 owner is aghast at hte BMW 1 series, or that any Corvette owner loathes the Aveo (for sharing branding in some fashion).

The lower models will not eat away at the sales of the higher models. Very few people shop for gold and buy silver. Besides, people are more likely to buy "up" than "down."

 

[ErnieFrance4]

My library has a bit over 4400 songs, almost exclusively from about 400 CDs I own, plus a few iTMS purchases here and there. I can't think of anyone (besides the guy above, and my sister) who I know personally that has more songs than me. Most people I know have around 1000 songs if that. I think if you were to look at the number of people who have certain music library sizes, it probably falls off rapidly after a few thousand songs.

Hello My name is Ernie and I have 6016 all legally aquired songs. Now you have met someone. Don't assume that everyone is like you.

 

[~Shard~]

Although 4-5 GB is not that significant of an update, I am hoping that Apple also introduces a few other things as well with the new minis, such as extended battery life, or *gasp* a color screen.

I think this does make sense though if they plan on releasing the iPod flash at the same time - that way there will be slightly more product differentiation between the two models.

 

[mrgreen4242]

I think a 5gb upgrade to the mini is inevitable... I think that the introduction of an improved format is also likely, altho not something that even doubles capacity, probably in the 80kbps range as suggested above, giving a 5gb ipod a 2000 song capacity (which is my opinion the 'sweet spot'... 1000 was just a tad low for a lot of people, but going up to the 5000 song/20gb model was overkill).

However, what will interest me most is if they release a new version of iTunes with it, to add ACCplus, and also add on the fly conversion akin to what MS Media Player has; this way you can rip your music to either a very high bit AAC file or a lossless format, etc, and then when you move music onto your iPod you can have it recompressed to either a smaller CD quality file, or an even small near CD quality, etc. (Alot of people use thier iPods while driving or using a treadmill, etc, whoch generate a lot of ambient noise, making CD quality music overkill, but having more music would be nice).

Also, the 'flashpod' would be interesting, if it was VERY small (I'm thinking half the size of a mini), has a screen AND keeps the scrollwheel design (don't ask me how to fit it all in, that's Apples job), retains the same software/features as the other iPods, comes in 512MB ($129) and 1GB ($179) version, and both have a SD expansion slot, letting you add 1GB more storage.

That's just my take on it, but I think it'd be pretty popular.

 

[BWhaler]

This upgrade is all about the battery life.

The form is too small for significantly new and major features. An extra gig is a nice to have for most people except those who have 4.2gigs of music.

But for everyone else, especially those who own a mini already, this update is going to be about battery life.

For me?

10 Hours: No Upgrade
12 Hours: 50/50 chance, and will probable upgrade later rather than sooner
15 Hours: Upgrading right away.

 

[Yvan256]

However, what will interest me most is if they release a new version of iTunes with it, to add ACCplus, and also add on the fly conversion akin to what MS Media Player has; this way you can rip your music to either a very high bit AAC file or a lossless format, etc, and then when you move music onto your iPod you can have it recompressed to either a smaller CD quality file, or an even small near CD quality, etc. (Alot of people use thier iPods while driving or using a treadmill, etc, whoch generate a lot of ambient noise, making CD quality music overkill, but having more music would be nice).

Indeed, I have already sent such a suggestion to Apple a few months ago. It appears I'm not the only one with such an idea, the competitors have it, and the introduction of AACplus would also be another push in offering that option. I know I'd use 128kbps on my PC but 64kbps HE-AAC for my iPod would even be overkill (I already can't hear much difference at AAC 48kbps for most of my songs while driving. And yes, I'm aware that AAC 48kbps is 32KHz).

It would also allow people with moderate music collections and big HDs to rip their CDs in Apple Lossless on their computer and still use regular AAC 128kbps for their iPods (yes, the first sync would take a few hours, but after that, it's only a matter of minutes to re-sync the few songs added since the last time).

Also, the 'flashpod' would be interesting, if it was VERY small (I'm thinking half the size of a mini), has a screen AND keeps the scrollwheel design (don't ask me how to fit it all in, that's Apples job), retains the same software/features as the other iPods, comes in 512MB ($129) and 1GB ($179) version, and both have a SD expansion slot, letting you add 1GB more storage.

That's just my take on it, but I think it'd be pretty popular.

Well, drop that SD and make it CF (or have both?), and you'd have a buyer for the 512MB version right here (well, not me, but someone I know).

Also, I think the iPod mini's current size would be fine for the iPod Flash... It also lowers the cost since they just crank up production of something that's already designed, tested, etc.

Worst case, the iPod mini Flash only comes in its own color so regular iPod mini owners can still "differenciate" themselves... But then again won't they also need new colors for the 5GB version?

Oh well, I just wish I could pay my 10GB iPod right now... I planned to pay before january 2005, but I lost my job 3 months ago.

Any buyer for a 3rd gen., 10GB iPod for 550$CAN? (stupid Future Shop extended 3 years warranty)

 

[mrgreen4242]

Well, drop that SD and make it CF (or have both?), and you'd have a buyer for the 512MB version right here (well, not me, but someone I know).

Also, I think the iPod mini's current size would be fine for the iPod Flash... It also lowers the cost since they just crank up production of something that's already designed, tested, etc.

Worst case, the iPod mini Flash only comes in its own color so regular iPod mini owners can still "differenciate" themselves... But then again won't they also need new colors for the 5GB version?

My choice of SD was for size, assuming that the flashPod is much smaller than the mini. If it were the same size having both SD and CF, and some built in memory, would work well... However, here is my beef with having it the same size... say they sell a 1gb for $179, and they put it in a standard mini case. Even if it had both a CF and SD port that could be used at the same time, it would cost you between $300-325 for 3gb of storage. That's an aweful value compared to the mini...

Now, if they put it in a form factor half the size of the mini and have an SD expansion slot, you're looking at about $250 for 2gb's (which is more more per GB, I know), but it's in a very small, potentially keychain sized, device, giving those who are looking for something that small a good value.

 

[RqThrottle]

I am buying one for my wife as soon as it is released no matter what specs, but I would like to see Apple including an FM radio on the new mini iPod. They are losing some sales to competitors that do offer one (Creative Zen micro) for those "weirdos" that still listen to the radio.