That's no more concrete than the FUD that we've been spreading here as well. As suspected, we know no more today than we did yesterday.
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6 Months Since Aperture (& iPhotos) Death
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That's no more concrete than the FUD that we've been spreading here as well. As suspected, we know no more today than we did yesterday.
Imaging Resource had this to say:
Noted by Apple rumor site 9to5 Mac, Apple made changes to its website last week, taking down the preview pages and all mentions of its vague release date. But despite the removal of said information, Apple CEO Tim Cook made mention of the Photos app for OSX during Tuesdays quarterly earnings call, saying it was still on track to be completed by the end of April.
I'd rather have a stable and robust app which works but is released later compared to apps which are released early but lack polish.
MCAsan
macrumors 601
The Bad Guy
macrumors 65816
Jason Snell nails it:
http://sixcolors.com/post/2015/02/product-distortion-field/
This is kind of what I was getting at with a previous post. Apple is becoming very one sided, that would be iPhone sided. Due to the huge amount of revenue that the iPhone is pulling in, just about every decision is going be made with the iPhone in mind (just look at those graphs).
On one hand I really want DAM integration so I am going to wait around to see what Photos looks like. But on the other hand, if it doesn't look very promising initially I may jump to LR quickly, because I doubt Photos will get much love for another year once its released. Again, when you look at those graphs, how can they afford to?
http://sixcolors.com/post/2015/02/product-distortion-field/
This is kind of what I was getting at with a previous post. Apple is becoming very one sided, that would be iPhone sided. Due to the huge amount of revenue that the iPhone is pulling in, just about every decision is going be made with the iPhone in mind (just look at those graphs).
On one hand I really want DAM integration so I am going to wait around to see what Photos looks like. But on the other hand, if it doesn't look very promising initially I may jump to LR quickly, because I doubt Photos will get much love for another year once its released. Again, when you look at those graphs, how can they afford to?
Agreed. In fact, I'm getting very impatient. It would be nice to at least see some sort of hint of what to expect out of Photos. That's not how
rolls though...At least everyday that we wait we get one day closer to LR6.
Because the have $120 Billion in their piggy bank and investing it in software development for long term goals seems like a lovely way to spend some of that money. That graph is the best reason Apple IMHO is really failing itself right now. Cool looking buildings won't get them customers in the future... yes a stable OS is key now an always, but future cool doesn't come cheap, and cool-seeking customers will forget about Apple at some point and move on to the next thing.
I completely agree with you. They should be building better software, but their recent track record isn't proving that out (between how buggy iOS 7/8 and Yosemite are and how they killed both of their photo apps before they had a replacement, and finally how they released their pro NLE before it was fully baked).
I really do hope Photos is great, I just wish they could use some of that $120 Billion the bank that they have to get it done sooner. I mean that's a perfect example. They have all this money, why can't they hire more developers so that Photos ships with Yosemite?
My point in "not being able to afford to" is that they have a spreadsheet guy running the company right now. Numbers alone will likely dictate where they put resources. I am concerned about where their focus is going because the numbers are going to lead them to be solely focused on the consumer, but ultimately their original core group of users may be left behind.
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I do not think that is at all a fair assessment.
Aperture still works. One could argue that it works better than ever now since the number of supported cameras has grown. They announced an end to development, but that did not kill it off your computer. You can even still buy it if you are so inclined. You are supposed to be able to import your libraries, so Aperture is not dead. It might even work with OS X 10.11 and later. It does have a retirement date scheduled.
If they had announced Photos with no warning, people would complain about the lack of notice and "I just bought Aperture 2 days ago." It makes no kind of sense to have people working on an 'end of life' project while another group works on 'the next big thing.' Any developer they hired to continue work on Aperture would be better utilized by putting them on the new Photos team.
Never mind the recruitment pitch: "Yeah, come work on a dead end project for a quarter. Great pay, limited benefits, and lots of customers claiming you retroactively destroyed their childhood." You could probably hire like that in 2009, but things are different now.
What they could and should have done is release Photos to replace iPhoto and keep Aperture hanging around for another year. They could then slowly build Photos to the point where most of the functionality was there and at that point announce an EOL for Aperture.
Yes Aperture does work, I am still using it. I love it. But the fact they are selling it still is not a good thing. It's absolutely irresponsible for them to still be selling it. It has no future past Yosemite. That scenario you are talking about of someone buys Aperture and it's dead two days later could still happen because they have said 3.6 was the last update. I don't know about you, but having things around that don't have a future make me uneasy. Keeping my computer on Yosemite for the rest of time is not an option for me, I need to stay current so other software functions properly and so that I get security updates.
More generally though just one more thought. Would Apple have been capable of releasing the iPhone if Tim Cook were CEO at the time? I highly doubt it. The risk they were taking by building something like that that could barely be built was huge, but Jobs had the vision and they got there.
I don't consider the watch to be even close to the same level product as the iPhone was. This is the next logical step. The iPhone literally came out of left field. I remember at the time everyone was clamoring for a wide screen iPod and an iPhone (think apple flip phone). No one, literally no one saw that it was going to be the same device, let alone bring an "internet communicator" along with it.
Again, Steve had the vision.
What will be next? Is Apple going to come up with it, at this point, probably not. The watch is completely a me too product, and one in my opinion that is really not necessary. I'm saddened to see them devote so many resources to something that is really just a toy for people with too much money to spend and free time to kill.
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How irresponsible Apple turns out to be by still selling Aperture will depend on how well the upgrade to Photos goes. Will there be a bunch of advanced edit plugins you get free if you own Aperture? How easy is the upgrade path?
You say Aperture has no future past Yosemite, but we do not know that 10.11 (or even 11) is going to break it. At some point, it will break, but the exact date is not known. That isn't quite the same as 'no future.'
From your arguments, Apple has no future. Why bother with their stuff? Heck, we know the sun is going to die one day, so life on earth must be ultimately pointless. Give up now or enjoy what you have while you have it: that choice is ultimately up to you.
Would Apple be capable of releasing the iPhone under Cook? I believe so, but I believe it was a more evolutionary product. The iPod line was getting video, and phones were becoming mp3 players. There were designs like the HTC Wizard that were 'in the ball park.' Also remember the original iPhone didn't have the 'App Store' that really turned the device into a 'must have.'
Jobs had a vision. Cook has a different vision because he is a different person. Does it take Apple in a direction that you or I no longer tolerate? Will Cook's eventual successor? Perhaps. But I am not going start jumping up and down screaming that the sky is falling and the end is nigh because Apple is transitioning from Aperture to some as yet unseen app that I expect will be free anyway.
Yosemite had bugs - as has every other OS since at least 1987. Why was it Windows 3.11 instead of 3? Bugs. DOS 6.22 instead of 6? Bugs. Some (shellshock) are worse than others (can't get voice to text to pronounce my name right). I recall people complained about IOS4-6 with equal fervor. Relax and have a little faith, but keep an eye on Lightroom/CaptureOne/Darktable/ whatever floats your boat. If Photos comes out beautiful, enjoy it. If not, you have options down to and including selling your immortal soul to Adobe (at which point you will not have a future either, so you may as well stick with Aperture anyway 😀 )
Aperture continuing to work by chance of not being broken and being an ongoing supported product are two entirely different things. They have said development on the product has stopped, it's dead. They shouldn't be selling it, period and you should be planning to move away from Aperture in some form (again unless you plan to continue to use Yosemite - there may be some point OS release or Apple RAW update that just happens to break Aperture). I'm still using it for now because the replacement isn't out, but it makes no sense to invest time in a product when its been killed. I'll make my final decision of what I'm going to do once Photos is released.
The iPhone's biggest innovation was the a capacitive touch screen. No one else had it and no one else was thinking about it, let alone a "gigantic" 3.5 inch wide screenish screen. Combine that with their "iPod" media technology and a real web browser and it was something that no one else was even close to at the time. The biggest competition was blackberry and Windows Mobile (the old one with the start button, stylus, and hardware keyboard). Yes they combined things in a way that looking back seems like the next logical step, but it was far from that at the time. No one other than Apple could have built that product (that's not an exaggeration - no one else had the iTunes store and I feel it played a huge role in its success - having a huge library of music and movies that people were already bought into).
Cook doesn't have a vision, he's a numbers guy. He has a supporting cast, but my fear is they don't really have vision either, they're just executing on what Jobs groomed them to do. We'll see though.
This is a technology company we're talking about, not a religion, so there's no need to have faith. Put up or shut. I love Apple stuff (I just boought an RiMac). There is no one that makes better overall product. I want them to continue to doing it though and not ride the iPhone train and in turn the company into the ground. Cook knows how to steer the existing ship and make sure it's fueled, maintained and how to give it small iterative upgrades on annual cycles, but so far he hasn't proven that he knows how to build a new type of vehicle (one no one has though of). And actually the more I think about our main conplaints here are that he isn't doing the best job in maintaining the ship that Jobs built. I think the answer to that though is to slow down a little bit and have a Snow Leopard release so everyone can catch heir breath. They really should adopt a tick tock model for OSs (at this point even for iOS - all the low hanging fruit have been dealt with), and then we wouldn't have key features, like photo management bumped for 9+ months.
On producing true innovations, I don't know if this problem is solvable, Steve Jobs was once in a generation. Honestly not sure what they do other than maybe expand R&D and throw lots of darts - one has to hit right? They just can't keep going along as they are though. I know everything is great now, but we've seen this movie before, many companies have died relying on past glory (almost including Apple in the 90's).
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maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I would too, but given Apple's track record, I'm not so sure we'll see a stable and robust application.
But Aperture works TODAY and will work TOMORROW. If it is a tool you are using, it still works. I have to deal with numerous 'legacy' systems at work. Use the tool that works for you. No, I would not pay money for Aperture today. I do not see that as a long term investment. If Apple comes out with some incentive (like the Photos Advanced plugins mentioned earlier), that might change it. However, I DID pay money for Aperture a while back and I do not regret it. It serves me well enough.
The LG Prada was the first phone with a Capacitive touch screen. It had a 3" screen, played music and videos, and no physical keyboard. It was released about a year before the iPhone 1. So not only were other people THINKING about it, someone else released a commercial product BEFORE Apple.
I would call that definitive proof that someone considered using a that technology in a phone outside of Apple. This, too, was evolutionary. Physical buttons are expensive to design and make, and they are ill suited to multiple applications. Multi-touch capability allows gestures like pinch to zoom, and so on.
That brings us to Apples MOST innovative thing with the iPhone: their buggy iOS system. The user interface to the iPhone was brilliant. It was intuitive and easy to use, even for the non-technically minded. Everything made sense. THIS is what separated Apple from everyone else.
As much as people want to rag on FCP X. The same is true there. Most NLEs are designed to emulate working with film from back in the day. Go ask a bunch of editors who've worked with film about how much they liked it. I've been to entire seminars where we couldn't find one. FCP X gets away from the film roots and takes advantage of the computer interface. Once you put aside some old paradigms, it is outstanding. As an aside, Apple wasn't the first one going in this direction either.
Apple's ability to deliver software that gets out of the way and lets me do what I want is what drew me away from Windows, and why I have some amount of faith that Photos will be just fine. Yes, I KNOW how to move pictures across platforms, but if I never had to because it happened for me, I would not have to spend time doing it.
Like if my lawn would magically mow itself. I know how to do it, but that doesn't mean I WANT to spend time doing it.
VirtualRain
macrumors 603
I think you give too much credit to Steve and too little to others over the last 15 years like Jony Ive. The iPhone was a result of working on a tablet, not a vision unto itself. From what I've read, the vision was to build a tablet first, and then at some point during the R&D for that they decided the technology they had might be usable for a phone.
Also, as much as I admire Steve, he was responsible for a lot of things I didn't like about Apple such as their near singular focus on one product at a time at the expense of other product lines, the secrecy, and acceptance of skumorphic designs.
Under Tim, there's been a lot of positive changes in these areas... Advance notice of Photos being one thing Steve's Apple never would have done. We'd still be rotting here wondering if Aperture had a future or not. Now at least we know.
OS X has also got a renewed life under Tim... It was largely neglected by Steve's Apple. And giving Jony control over software design has been a positive change.
However, I think software quality has suffered, they've lost the aura of "it just works". Hopefully Apple hears the cries and will take some time to stabilize the huge plethora of new features and capabilities they've rushed to market over the last 18 months... Like what they've done with Maps over the last two years, the whole ecosystem needs some maturing time.
Based on the screen shots, Photos looks to be very capable... For example, it has a "Levels" adjustment brick which is the first thing they would nuke if they were dumbing it down for soccer moms and selfie obsessed socialites. And Apple confirmed after the announcement that it will offer plugin support and NIK has blogged that they are looking into that. To be honest, that's all I care about... My needs evolved beyond global adjustments a long time ago. I only wish Apple had acquired NIK and not Google, but if NIK will still support Photos at some point before Aperture exhales for the last time, my migration path will be set.
aerok
macrumors 65816
Didn't you know?
Apple is first at making a smart phone
Apple is first at adding MMS to messaging
Apple is first at having copy/paste
Apple is first at adding a camera on phone
Apple is also first at landing on the phone
I'm actually enjoying the discussion between you and V3rlon, but I thought I'd comment on this.
It is nearly impossible to hire good engineers. It's slightly easier if you're Apple, but it's still tough. The demand for engineering talent, especially systems engineers like Apple needs, is just incredible these days. It's also not a problem that you can solve with money alone -- money helps close the deal, but usually it's other factors that get engineers looking for jobs in the first place.
Once you hire a new engineer, even a senior one, there is also a significant amount of engineering time that must be spent training them in your way of doing things. This means that new hires actually do negative work for their first few months on the job. That further limits how many people you can hire without upsetting schedules.
Final point on software quality. Yes, it's sucked lately and they need to sort that out. Adding the right engineers can help sometimes, but really what is needed is time for releases to settle. I'd definitely be onboard for a bi-yearly OS release cycle.
I conceed the Prada, I forgot about that and actually thought it was a resistive screen, but it is in fact a capacitive screen. That though is a perfect example of Job's vision. He made a cohesive product people actually wanted to buy and use - how many Pradas sold? (Also you can't say apple copied LG the iPhone was unveiled on Jan 9, 2007, pictures of the LG weren't out until Jan 18 (it was rumored late in 2006) so while they were technically the first to sell a capacitive screen, Apple was the first to announce one). At bare minimu he changed what *most* smartphones looked like and how they worked - Google stopped dead in their tracks and began to copy Apple.
I think were just going to have to agree to disagree on using dead software. Your comfortable with it, I'm not. If im going to invest time in something I want to know it's around and will work for the foreseeable future. Yes nothing is forever, but we know for a fact Apertue won't recieve another update. It may limp along for CA place or two but it will break at some point.
Besides that though, it already is starting to feel creaky. The iCloud sharing is bolted on and it can't access Photos in the cloud. I got Aperture 3 in 2010 a were still technically at Aperture 3. It's time for something else, I feel like I've got my money's worth.
I fully understand that Appe didn't invent the smartphone, but they did completely redefine it and in turn fully realized Job's vision of the tablet (they just couldn't build a tablet at the time, so they built what they could, which was a phone).
Others may see that Tim Cook has a vision, but I don't see it. Time will tell whether I'm right or not. I hope im not.
I think were just going to have to agree to disagree on using dead software. Your comfortable with it, I'm not. If im going to invest time in something I want to know it's around and will work for the foreseeable future. Yes nothing is forever, but we know for a fact Apertue won't recieve another update. It may limp along for CA place or two but it will break at some point.
Besides that though, it already is starting to feel creaky. The iCloud sharing is bolted on and it can't access Photos in the cloud. I got Aperture 3 in 2010 a were still technically at Aperture 3. It's time for something else, I feel like I've got my money's worth.
I fully understand that Appe didn't invent the smartphone, but they did completely redefine it and in turn fully realized Job's vision of the tablet (they just couldn't build a tablet at the time, so they built what they could, which was a phone).
Others may see that Tim Cook has a vision, but I don't see it. Time will tell whether I'm right or not. I hope im not.
Regarding not being able to hire enough engineers, I keep hearing this, but I don't buy it though. Other companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Adobe, and Amazon are able to walk and chew gum at the same time, why can't Apple?
They have more money than God, they should be able to figure it out. It will take time to build a strong engineering base, but they shouldn't be moving engineers off any project they take seriously to ship a new product. Again it shows where their priorities are (they had one guy developing the Remote and Podcast apps for a while - really?)
I've encountered several show stopping bugs in Yosemite (including Exhange Mail not working and not being able to change my Active Directory account password effectively locking me out because they changed the way .local domains are handled). These things shouldn't happen. This stuff worked perfectly in Mavericks. I'd understand if new features have some bugs, but long standing features shouldn't ever break.
They have more money than God, they should be able to figure it out. It will take time to build a strong engineering base, but they shouldn't be moving engineers off any project they take seriously to ship a new product. Again it shows where their priorities are (they had one guy developing the Remote and Podcast apps for a while - really?)
I've encountered several show stopping bugs in Yosemite (including Exhange Mail not working and not being able to change my Active Directory account password effectively locking me out because they changed the way .local domains are handled). These things shouldn't happen. This stuff worked perfectly in Mavericks. I'd understand if new features have some bugs, but long standing features shouldn't ever break.
Ugh, people seem to have a very short memory. Aperture started stagnating under Steve Jobs, he was also the one who thought mobile me was an idea and the one who stuck to smaller screen sizes for iPhones. Jobs was great for imagining and reimagining new products and new product categories, something that isn't needed here. Moreover, it's quite obvious to me that Apple has revitalized their OS X efforts after Jobs passed away. The redesign of iOS would not have happened this way if Jobs were still alive. We can argue whether their efforts were successful, but IMO they have done a lot to improve OS X over the last few years. Part of the problem is that OS X and iOS are moving too fast, so that the balance tips too far in the direction of new features rather than polish and stability.
To say that Cook lacks a vision is patently false, his vision for Apple is very clear. Maybe you disagree about the direction Apple is headed, but I don't think Apple is missing vision, they're hiring the right people and worry about the correct issues in my opinion. I have yet to see a sign that Cook is trying to be the arbiter of good taste that Jobs was. He knows he is no Steve Jobs and leaves that to others. The problem is execution, not the vision.
The eternal complaint about Apple's »consumer focus«, I've heard that in 1997 for the first time. It's as misguided then as it was now. Are people who use an iPhone for work consumers? Or who primarily write work e-mails and texts for a living? The distinction between »consumers« and »professionals« has become completely meaningless because nearly everybody uses a computer to earn their living.
You no longer need the most powerful computer to lay out text or edit photos, every entry-level computer and even the iPad can do that, in real time. Computing has become ever more mainstream, and Apple, Microsoft and Google are currently reacting to people having more than one computing device. This is where they put their resources. Microsoft's attempt is to put Windows 10 everywhere, from the humble Raspberry Pi 2 to big servers. They believe that certain devices can have two personalities (e. g. tablet and regular PC once it is docked). Apple thinks that Continuity features plus the cloud are the answer, but that the OSes should be kept separate. Google wants you to put all of your data and apps in the cloud. It doesn't matter whether you pick up the phone on your Mac or your iPhone. Once you understand this, it's also clear that Apple has no intention of loosing track of the Mac, it needs OS X are part of the continuum of computing devices. And new device categories can be added to this continuum (e. g. Apple Watch or a redesigned Apple TV).
I don't think these companies are moving at a faster pace than Apple, and they have had significantly more failures in recent history than Apple. Microsoft had Windows 8, despised by most of the user base, and a phone operating system which still has negligible market share. They had a serious write off of Windows RT (which has also been canned). Google had Google+. Adobe's user base for the most part hates Adobe's new subscription model where many users say that they can pry their copy of CS6 or Lightroom 5 from their cold dead hands (just have a look around the forum here). Amazon built a premium phone that only few tens of thousands of people bought. Most of these companies still do very well financially (not as well as Apple), but to just say the grass is greener on the other side seems myopic.
I guess the only other thing I'll say is, is everyone actually really happy with the direction of Apple and what they're producing at the movement? We're getting in the weeds and arguing semantics back and forth, but really at the heart of the matter is I really like what the company does overall, but we're seeing quality issues and delays. I'm also seeing that their revenue is becoming extremely onesided. They could easily skate by without doing another thing for the next 10 years, purly riding on inertia. That's kind of a dangerous place to be.
Yes I want innovative products (as I've been alluding to with the release of the iPhone), but I also want the products that have been released to actually work and continue to be maintained. I know I'm asking a lot, but do we want them to get comfortable and become Microsoft 10 years from now? I'd rather we be vocal about small issues we see now than to pretend everything is hunky dorey and look back in 10 years saying we wished we could have done something.
So if you are happy about where they are fine, but I'm only coming from the standpoint of wanting them to make better products and continuing to innovate. At the moment my opinion is they're having some growing pains and I think some of it is due to the loss of Jobs (whether we want to admit it or not).
I'm extremely happy with the direction they're going, I'm unhappy with the way they're going about it. Apple's hardware is second to none, you just need to compare my 2010 15" MacBook Pro with my current 2014 13" Retina MacBook Pro. Apple makes the best ARM SoCs for phones and tablets. They have identified where they need to move, i. e. to a world where different devices integrate with one another. That privacy is important. That people expect to have access to their files from anywhere. I think that's highly innovative (even though I think this particular word is quite devoid of meaning). I don't need a new product category. I'm not so interested in the cloud. And I don't have an iPad yet either. And you write of delays, that's only true for non-OS software, OS X and iOS is revved on a yearly cadence.
Microscopically, we can always nitpick, but that is not the important part here. To me, Apple's problems are in the execution, in particular software quality, the lack of focus on the cloud and how they handle transitions.
Boy howdy, rather with you on that.
The riMac is an example of both the best and worst of Apple recently. Here is this bombshell desktop, when desktops are just starting to rebound, that puts any other desktop (or even external monitor) in the shade. At a great price. Amazing, and it surprised most everybody. And required some great engineering.
Meanwhile, they screw the Aperture pooch. Whaa? Maybe Photos is so amazingly different it was difficult to produce, although I doubt it. I suspect cloud integration is problematic, but maybe that's just because Apple's cloud products have been awful. I just don't get why they could be so good at hardware and blow with some of their software. And if so why not just buy up some software, or spin off a la Claris or Filemaker.