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Originally posted by Shadowfax
i never said you were pathetic, i said that your comment that the code you write works better on x86 than on the G4 was. i am sorry. i don't honestly know that much about what i am talkinf about, but i do know that the mac platform gets a lot of pisspoor performing games and other apps because of poor porting skills. but whatever. sorry.

Um, no, it has nothing to do with "porting skills".

The gcc compiler in general does a poor job of optimizing code for the G4 relative to, say, MSVC's compiler optimizing for the P4.

Personally, I've gone through many long performance-optimization sessions with high-level Apple engineers. We've been able to get sometimes 3-5% performance improvement through our Sampler/optimize rounds, which they said is fairly low because my code tends to follow the G4-programming guidelines as it is (ie, reduce cache misses above all else, compute static variables instead of pull them from memory, etc). in all, we've pulled about a 50% performance improvement out of our hats, which isn't bad.

We then copied the improved code over to the Windows compiler, ran through the same tests, and what do you think we found? In all cases (except one), a 3-5% improvement on the OS X side corresponded to a 5-8% improvement on Windows. The overall performance gain on Windows was over 100% (ie, twice as much work done in the same amount of time).

Before these improvements, the G4 and P3 were neck-and-neck for overall performance by clock cycle. Afterwards a 500MHz P3 runs faster than a 733MHz G4.

About my application: there are a lot of unavoidable cache misses as we work with a complex and inter-related data set. SIMD (Altivec or SSE, take your pick) cannot be used in any manner (at least, not that I could find, and not that our Apple friend could find either).

Yes, this is anectdotal, and, no, I'm not going to drop names. But take it from me, it's not "poor porting" that is the cause of the G4 performing piss-poor compared to Intel's line. It is the overall architecture of the chip.
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax
yeah, i guess i am just being argumentative. it is a pretty crappily written port, optimization or no. we definitely need hardware updates. motorola has royally screwed apple and its users on performance.

The point is, if the problem is memory leaks, it is highly unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) that this came about during the port. The leaks are more than likely present on the Windows port as well.

on the other hand, Windows is a bit more forgiving of memory leaks than OS X ... leaked memory gets shuffled away into VM fairly quickly so doesn't affect ongoing performance as much as it does on OSX ... I tend to find my memory leaks on OSX, not Windows :)
 
Re: Re: clarification

Originally posted by JLL
The MDD Power Macs were named P57 and P58.

Yup, all Apple projects have a name - such as Yosemite, Yikes or whatever, plus a "P" number. The latter is the 'official' name, the former is to make it easier to remember!

Mike.
 
Maybe they will receive beta CDs

Since Apple has already announced that they will be previewing OS X.3 at the WWDC then it may be that attendees will leave with their beta of the operating system. 970 towers could be announced and updated G4 Powermacs could be cleared from stock with heavy discounts.
 
Re: Maybe they will receive beta CDs

Originally posted by Sol
G4 Powermacs could be cleared from stock with heavy discounts.

I like that idea - give developers a really deep discount (much more than the current one). That might pacify a good chunk of the people until the 970s come along. Given the build-up in hype and anticipation leading up to WWDC, Apple will have a difficult time just avoiding disappointing the masses.
 
Re: Maybe they will receive beta CDs

Originally posted by Sol
Since Apple has already announced that they will be previewing OS X.3 at the WWDC then it may be that attendees will leave with their beta of the operating system.

That's not a "maybe".

That's a "pretty much assuredly".

Apple moved the WWDC date so that developers could "take home" a preview of Panther. I didn't take this to mean "take home a memory of a preview of Panther". And, it fits with last year's Jaguar preview, which was a developer take-home release.

I strongly doubt that developers will be walking away from the WWDC with nothing more than an expired admission badge and memories.
 
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