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These are all OSX benchmarks. Did anybody consider that in OSX there is no Nvidia Boost feature available. 967 vs 900 Mhz seems to explain about the performance difference.
The main difference of the 700M series is the boost feature, which should push the 750M up to 15% beyond base clock, if heat is not an issue and the power supply plays along. It seems those boost clocks are simply not active in OSX.
In Windows they might not be either with bootcamp drivers but at least with modded drivers they should be.
That means it should top out around 1112 Mhz not 967.
But in OSX 967 seems to be the limit and there is simply no GPU Boost 2.0.

Yes it is just a 650M but it should still be a bit better than what the op shows. Anybody with modded drivers can push his 650M probably to almost the same levels but stock vs stock the 750M should be 15-20% faster not 4-7%.

Some Windows benchmark comparisons between the two would be interesting. You can install new drivers straight from Nvidia (this took a little inf adjustment last time I tried it, not sure if that's still true) and see what the chip is capable of using their unmodified drivers.

You may also be able to make some adjustments with Kepler "over-clocking" tools (EVGA Precision, MSI Afterburner). The GPU should still self-throttle for thermal protection, so these tools won't actually harm the chip.

How do we know it will be a major improvement (Broadwell)?

It's not known, but there's speculation based on Intel's demonstrated Broadwell power savings: They showed a Broadwell chip using only 70% of the power of a Haswell chip at exactly the same processing speed while at 100% load. They're talking about it in these terms because the current focus is all about mobility, not speed.

The first thing you might ask when you see this is, "what if I don't care about that 30% reduction in power consumption?" The answer is that you could produce a faster chip at the same TDP (how much faster is currently unknown). For example, with a flat 30% power reduction (which is what they showed) a 65W TDP chip becomes a 45W chip (which is 15" rMBP territory). Intel's 4770R is the 65W TDP equivalent of the 4770K, and that chip could run in the rMBP if you built it with Broadwell's process.

How much faster is a 4770R than the chips in this year's rMBP? I couldn't find any benchmarks actually, since it's a very odd low TDP desktop chip, but if anyone can find a comparison we might have a good idea of how much performance gain we could be looking at.

Alternatively you could stick with the already impressive performance of the 2.6 15" rMBP (3338 Geekbench 3 single core) but get 30% more battery life across the board (even at 100% load on all 4 cores). Combine that with IGZO and people without regular access to outlets might find this very exciting.
 
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How do we know it will be a major improvement (Broadwell)?

We don't. Not at all. Based on early reports and build specs, the Broadwell CPU will bring up to a 30% boost in efficiency--which is expected to mainly play a part in reducing power consumption at heavier loads, meaning that we might finally see real battery life improvements for tasks beyond light internet use and word processing.

But I don't especially care about that, personally.

Knowing that nVidia will be introducing brand new graphics (rather than a rebranded, overclocked chip a la the 750M), the potential for IGZO displays, and the standard lower-priced storage and memory, etc...

There is no guarantee any of this will bring game-changing improvements to the next MBP on par with what we saw with the leap to Sandy Bridge. But let's be honest here--a 30% boost in ANYTHING would leave the Haswell refresh in the dust by default. (Okay, minor hat-tip to the new SSDs, which are great, though the advantage is hardly noticeable in daily use.)

This all amounts to little more than typical fanboy whining, I know, what's becoming increasingly apparent to me is that the only real bragging rights the Haswell models have over Ivy Bridge is a $200 price drop.

Yes, I appreciate the price drop. But that doesn't make me feel better about dropping $2K+ on a machine that only negligibly better than the 1.5-year-old model it replaced.
 
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We don't. Not at all. Based on early reports and build specs, the Broadwell CPU will bring up to a 30% boost in efficiency--which is expected to mainly play a part in reducing power consumption at heavier loads, meaning that we might finally see real battery life improvements for tasks beyond light internet use and word processing.

But I don't especially care about that, personally.

Knowing that nVidia will be introducing brand new graphics (rather than a rebranded, overclocked chip a la the 750M), the potential for IGZO displays, and the standard lower-priced storage and memory, etc...

There is no guarantee any of this will bring game-changing improvements to the next MBP on par with what we saw with the leap to Sandy Bridge. But let's be honest here--a 30% boost in ANYTHING would leave the Haswell refresh in the dust by default. (Okay, minor hat-tip to the new SSDs, which are great, though the advantage is hardly noticeable in daily use.)

This all amounts to little more than typical fanboy whining, I know, what's becoming increasingly apparent to me is that the only real bragging rights the Haswell models have over Ivy Bridge is a $200 price drop.

Yes, I appreciate the price drop. But that doesn't make me feel better about dropping $2K+ on a machine that only negligibly better than the 1.5-year-old model it replaced.

Hey, this might make you feel justified in your skepticism of the whole Broadwell performance thing: I just found some Geekbench scores for the 4770S, the 65W desktop chip I was talking about. It has like 2% on the 2.6 chip from this year's rMBP.

Of course the chips used in the rMBP (even the lower tier ones) are going to be very good quality as they're sold as the premium mobile line, so they may do way better on on voltages, but that's not what I expected at all. Also possible that 4770S isn't even hitting its TDP unless it's over clocked (which it can't be since it's not unlocked). Just more uncertainty I guess.

If I had to place a bet now I'd say we'll see the usual 10% performance boost coupled with a more modest 15% power savings.
 
If I had to place a bet now I'd say we'll see the usual 10% performance boost coupled with a more modest 15% power savings.

Thanks as always for your diligent research, Walrus.

It could well be that we're in the midst of a longer-than-expected lull in CPU speed improvements with, as you said, an increasingly clear emphasis being placed on portability and battery life.

That ultimately would make me feel a bit better about spending premium bucks on a Haswell machine. I'm much less worried about having to work near an AC outlet than I am about being stuck with a drastically under-powered laptop in 2-3 years. I prefer to keep and use my laptops as long as possible.

Admittedly, I feel kind of ridiculous "hoping" that Broadwell winds up being just as incremental an upgrade merely to make me feel better about buying a Haswell... although I suspect I'm not the only guy who has thoughts along these lines. I know if I'd bought an Ivy Bridge machine in February, I'd be jumping for joy right now knowing that my machine could fully keep up with these new generation CPUs and GPUs!
 
650 vs Isis?

I've been reading these threads trying to figure out what 15 rmbp to order for my son. I'm almost starting to believe that the feb 2013 15 in with 650 nvidia chip might perform better for games than the new base haswell machine? I can essentially get the refurbished feb 2013 15 in with apple care for the same price as the base haswell 15 in. I understand that the older machine has less battery life and slightly slower flash, but otherwise it would be better for something like league of legends?

I would really appreciate your guidance here.
 
I've been reading these threads trying to figure out what 15 rmbp to order for my son. I'm almost starting to believe that the feb 2013 15 in with 650 nvidia chip might perform better for games than the new base haswell machine? I can essentially get the refurbished feb 2013 15 in with apple care for the same price as the base haswell 15 in. I understand that the older machine has less battery life and slightly slower flash, but otherwise it would be better for something like league of legends?

I would really appreciate your guidance here.

Here are some Iris Pro gaming benchmarks for you:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1662978/

In short, the older base model MBP does have a better graphics card for gaming, but not by a huge margin. The Iris Pro in the newest base model is maybe a bit more capable than a lot of us expected.

But in terms of gaming value for money, the refurb definitely wins out.
 
Here are some Iris Pro gaming benchmarks for you:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1662978/

In short, the older base model MBP does have a better graphics card for gaming, but not by a huge margin. The Iris Pro in the newest base model is maybe a bit more capable than a lot of us expected.

But in terms of gaming value for money, the refurb definitely wins out.

The Iris Pro is very good at low though medium settings on most things, but at higher settings it can't keep up with the 650M. See this very good review from AnandTech (there's a lot more pages too).
 
These are all OSX benchmarks. Did anybody consider that in OSX there is no Nvidia Boost feature available. 967 vs 900 Mhz seems to explain about the performance difference.
The main difference of the 700M series is the boost feature, which should push the 750M up to 15% beyond base clock, if heat is not an issue and the power supply plays along. It seems those boost clocks are simply not active in OSX.
In Windows they might not be either with bootcamp drivers but at least with modded drivers they should be.
That means it should top out around 1112 Mhz not 967.
But in OSX 967 seems to be the limit and there is simply no GPU Boost 2.0.

Yes it is just a 650M but it should still be a bit better than what the op shows. Anybody with modded drivers can push his 650M probably to almost the same levels but stock vs stock the 750M should be 15-20% faster not 4-7%.

Somebody should post some Windows benchmarks to see if it is a cooling issue or just an OSX driver issue.

OP can you confirm your clocks under load?

At 967mhz you are pretty much even with a 660m (which runs at 950 under load).
 
There are some windows benchmark results for 3dmark http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced (search for 4850HQ CPU)
They almost exactly match my results for 650M (+5% for 750m, CPU boost is more substantial) - tested just yesterday with latest nvidia drivers:(
I guess no windows performance boost for now guys
 
If you got a rMBP with a 650m, better wait for Maxwell which should be out 2014 Q1. The performance increase is going to be huge.
 
Thanks

Thanks guys. Based on the anandtech article it seems like the feb 13 15 rmbp with the 650 card will better suit my needs. I appreciate the help!
 
If you got a rMBP with a 650m, better wait for Maxwell which should be out 2014 Q1. The performance increase is going to be huge.

Maxwell's desktop GPUs may be out in Q1 (in limited quantities like the 680 launch), but you won't see the parts for a MBP that soon. Maxwell will likely appear in an Apple laptop for the first time at the Broadwell refresh in mid-late 2014.

I still agree with the advice, just want to clarify that no one's getting a Maxwell-equipped rMBP in Q1.
 
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