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Apple, HP... etc.

J

Jouhne

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 6, 2009
64
5
Midrange Z600 pricing: $3,900

• HP Z600 650W 85% Efficient Chassis
• Two Xeon E5520 2.26 8 MB/1066 QC
• NVIDIA Quadro FX1800 (768 MB GDDR3 - 192-bit - Memory Bandwidth 38.4 GB/sec)*
• 6 GB (6×1 GB) DDR3-1333 ECC RAM
• 160 GB SATA 7200 rpm
• 500 GB SATA 7200 rpm (Data volume)
• 16x DVD+/-RW SuperMulti SATA
• Microsoft Windows Vista Business 64-bit
• 1394a card

vs

Apple Mac Pro 2,26: $ 3,499

• Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
• 6GB (6x1GB) DDR3-1066 ECC RAM
• 640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
• ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB (512 MB GDDR5 - 256-bit - Memory Bandwidth 115.2 GB/s)
• One 18x SuperDrive
• FireWire 800
• ... Mac OS X :p

from here

*The Quadro FX 1800 should sell for about $600. This card has 768 MB GDDR3 memory, 64 shader processors, 192-bit memory bus, and 38.4GB/s memory bandwidth. The maximum power consumption is about 59 watts. It is based on the G94 core (a.k.a. the GeForce 9600).
 
for comparison here is dell's T610 server, roughly spec'd to apple's 2.26

dual 2.26Ghz E5520
6GB Memory (6x1GB), 1333MHz Single Ranked UDIMMs
Microsoft® SBS '08, Premium Edition, Image Only, Primary Server
500GB 7.2K RPM SATA 3.5" Hot Plug Hard Drive
High Output Power Supply, Non-Redundant, 870W
Dual Two-Port Embedded Broadcom® NetXtreme II 5709 Gigabit Ethernet NIC
DVD+/-RW ROM, SATA, Internal (can't believe this is a 30$ option!)
Keyboard and Optical Mouse, USB, Black, Englis
total: 3226...
so you save $73 over apple to get a crappy os, non-redundant ps, and cheapest components they sell...
I'll keep my mac pro thank you:D

forgot to mention, the dell doesn't include video card options, probably uses on board video... confirmed: Integrated Matrox G200 , 8MB shared video memory

maybe they'll update the workstations soon to get a closer comparison
 
DR_K13 said:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/31/1744204&art_pos=10
Click to expand...

while that article is about laptops... I'm sure that yes, the same is true of the workstations. We are simply looking at what the initial PC competition is compared to what apple put out earlier this month. There was much complaining about the price increases adn many felt that the new mac pros were going to be in the order of $600+ more expensive than the competition. So far the competition seems to be priced roughly the same
 
The prices are reasonable.

With the PC, it has a better graphics card, more HDD space, faster ram, more memory expansion slots, and a more efficient PSU at full loads.

No reason to argue with price. They are both priced inline with each other.

Since the Quadro X1800 costs about $600 USD, and the 4870 at about $200 USD. If you do the calculations, the PC is actually slightly cheaper because of the above listed points.
 
galstaph said:
while that article is about laptops... I'm sure that yes, the same is true of the workstations. We are simply looking at what the initial PC competition is compared to what apple put out earlier this month. There was much complaining about the price increases adn many felt that the new mac pros were going to be in the order of $600+ more expensive than the competition. So far the competition seems to be priced roughly the same
Click to expand...

I think nearly all the price comparisons were to cheap Core i7 systems, previous Mac Pros or the retail price of components.

The DP system prices were likely to be similar to Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, Fujitsu etc. The UP system is likely to be more as those companies aren't worried positioning it against other products like Apple are in regards to the iMac.
 
alanlindsay said:
The octo 2.26 was $1,750.
Click to expand...

Really? I think it is a bit more to match the Mac Pro specs as close as possible.
Show us your cart, don't forget to get a nice aluminum case, keyboard, and mouse ;)

I know it will cheaper, but you don't get the reliability of native OSX!
Kind of hard to put a price on a problem free OS... :D

I just took a stab at it:

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q - OEM
$24.99

SILVERSTONE TJ07S-W Silver Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$369.99

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$79.99

ENERMAX KB007U-S Silver USB Wired Standard Keyboard
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate
$65.99

ione Lynx-R22 4 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Laser Mouse with Gaming Mouse Pad
$17.99

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
$8.99

ASUS Z8PE-D12(ASMB4-IKVM) Dual LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SSI EEB 3.61 Server Motherboard
-$20.00 Instant
$499.99
$479.99

Crucial 3GB (3 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) ECC Unbuffered Triple Channel Kit Server Memory Model CT3KIT12872BA1339
$145.98
($72.99 each)

Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Server Processor Model BX80602E5520
$759.98
($379.99 each)

Athena Power AP-P4ATX95FEP 950W Single EPS-12V Server Power Supply
$188.99

That is $2,200.17 with shipping :)

+ Add the cost for a GT 120 or however much it would cost for a similar video card
Click to expand...
 
Ok, case has 850W supply but no keyboard mouse...so add $50 maybe?

Regarding the (main) OS question. If you use Apple software as part of your work then that's cool - the mac pro is for you. I for one do scientific computation so I've got a little more flexibility when it comes to which OS I want to use - C/Fortran compilers and MATLAB come in all OS flavors. I like Linux and it shares the same base as OSX so it is just as reliable and efficient.

Saying that I use a MBP and OSX is definitely my favorite out of the bunch. But I don't like it so much I'm willing to pay $1500 for it ( Mac Pro 8x2.26 vs Homebuilt 8x2.26 ) when I could use Linux for free.

I guess I think if you're using Apple pro apps then you're not going to worry too much about the cost anyways. Otherwise the premium is a big ask. The premium on the 2008MPs was much much smaller and it wasn't such a big deal.

Edit: I went for a cheaper MB than you but I have gfx. You need to include 2xHSF.
 

Attachments

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alanlindsay said:
Ok, case has 850W supply but no keyboard mouse...so add $50 maybe?
Click to expand...
It is a very nice case, but not as appeasing as a brushed aluminum case the Mac Pro rocks. (apples to Apples)
alanlindsay said:
Edit: I went for a cheaper MB than you but I have gfx. You need to include 2xHSF.
Click to expand...
The Tyan one has 1x PCI-E that mechanically supports 16-lane cards, while the Asus has 4x that is more similar to the Mac Pro.

Add another 3GB of Ram as well ;)
alanlindsay said:
Regarding the (main) OS question. If you use Apple software as part of your work then that's cool - the mac pro is for you. I for one do scientific computation so I've got a little more flexibility when it comes to which OS I want to use - C/Fortran compilers and MATLAB come in all OS flavors. I like Linux and it shares the same base as OSX so it is just as reliable and efficient.
Click to expand...
The price for the hardware is looking at $1000 less to build your own clone.
People have to understand that there is margin in Apple's price that goes to OS development. They have to profit on top of the cost for software and hardware.

Of course you can trim it down/cut corners and reduce the cost, but that isn't what Apple offers or does. People should post those topics in the hackitosh forum and not in a forum for Mac Pros.
 
Almost all the money in a Windows machine goes to Microsoft and Intel (unless there's a high-end GPU in which case ATI/Nvidia gets a healthy cut as well). HP, Dell, etc. make very little on these machines compared to those two.
 
Dell's prices are up.

Dell Precision T3500, CMT, Standard Power Supply
Genuine Windows Vista® Business Bonus-Windows XP Professional downgrade
No Energy Star
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3520 2.66GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s
Mini-Tower Chassis Configuration
3GB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM, ECC (3 DIMMS)
3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service
256MB NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 295, DUAL MON, 2 DP
1 DisplayPort to DVI (Single Link) Adapter
C1 All SATA drives, No RAID for 1 Hard Drive
Integrated Intel chipset SATA 3.0Gb/s controller
80GB SATA 3.0Gb/s with NCQ and 8MB DataBurst Cache™
16X DVD+/-RW w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD™ and Roxio Creator™ Dell Ed

$1,510

w/ 500GB = $1,690
w/ 750GB = $1,790

Dell's hard drive prices on workstations are as bad as Apples and they don't offer a 640GB option. I figure people who would consider one on here anyway would buy their own drives and memory.
 
The Dual Processor T5500 and T7500 can't be compared exactly as they don't have a second processor option yet. It's on a riser card and I guess they don't have them ready. Dell's systems also start with 2x1GB of memory 1066MHz ECC UDIMM and an 80GB drive, which I have always felt should be considered a feature and not a flaw, but I know many disagreed when Apple did it too.

T5500 with 2GB of memory, 80GB drive, NVS 295 and one 2.26GHz processor is $2,000. You are probably looking at another $500-600 for an additional 2.26GHz and if you want memory and drives through them the would be similar to a 2.26Ghz Mac Pro for similar specs. The T7500 is about $200 more than the T5500. Nothing that wasn't expected really.

With a 2.66GHz processor you are looking at $2,850 and probably another $1,500 for an additional processor putting it up around Apple's pricing. Not really systems to consider as a Mac Pro replacement unless you want some of the options they offer like more processor choice, more memory slots (9 on the T5500, 12 on the T7500), workstation graphics, better warranty options.
 
Umbongo said:
Dell's prices are up.

Dell's hard drive prices on workstations are as bad as Apples...
Click to expand...

I haven't looked but if that's true then that makes me think this kind of behavior is due to their economical forecasting abilities and we're all in for the sh__ this year like all of the real news men left in America are saying. They say we're in for a depression worse than the 29 depression and to top it off prices are going to sky-rocket. In contrast during the 29 years prices dropped through the floor. I guess that's what's going make this one so much worse.

If true then this time next year (2011) many of us won't even be here then to discuss it. We'll have sold our machines or turned off the internet connection in favor of being able to eat. :eek:

Nikon and other electronics goods companies are also raising their prices. Nowhere near as bad as Apple (yet) but then Apple sets prices for a 1-year period when Nikon, Sony, and Canon are more dynamic - can raise or lower on a whim.
 
Here in Belgium

Dell Precision T3500 Quad 2,93 : 2896€ (21% tax inc.)

• Xeon W3540 2.93 GHz
• NVIDIA Quadro FX1800 (768 MB GDDR3 - 192-bit - Memory Bandwidth 38.4 GB/sec)
• 6 GB (6×1 GB) DDR3-1066 ECC RAM
• 1 TB SATA 7200 rpm
• 16x DVD+/-RW
• Creative SoundBlaster™ X-fi Titanium Sound card
• Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
(No FireWire, No Bluetooth, No Wifi)

vs

Apple Mac Pro Quad 2,93: 3199€ (21% tax inc.)

• Xeon W3540 2.93 GHz
• 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3-1066 ECC RAM
• 1 TB SATA 7200 rpm
• ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB (512 MB GDDR5 - 256-bit - Memory Bandwidth 115.2 GB/s)
• One 18x SuperDrive
• FireWire 800 - Bluetooth - Wifi
• ... Mac OS X

For 303€ more, I'm going with the Mac and FW800-Bluetooth-Wifi and OS X, thank you ;)

Edit : There is promo for the Dell until the end of April, so the normal price is 3040€ + Shipping : 42,35 €
So the real price is 3082,35 € (Dell) vs 3199€ (Mac).... 117€ more for the Mac Pro... is a no brainer :)
 
Tesselator said:
I haven't looked but if that's true then that makes me think this kind of behavior is due to their economical forecasting abilities and we're all in for the sh__ this year like all of the real news men left in America are saying. They say we're in for a depression worse than the 29 depression and to top it off prices are going to sky-rocket. In contrast during the 29 years prices dropped through the floor. I guess that's what's going make this one so much worse.
Click to expand...

Workstations have been this way since before the move to Core 2. Apple were just different for those first two and a half years. It's a niche market with plenty of spending power.
 
The Dell UK site has full options (all prices exclude VAT)

2.66GHz Mac Pro: 3x1GB, 640GB drive, 512MB GT 120 & Applecare = £1,821
2.66GHz T3500: 3x1GB, 750GB drive, 512MB Quadro FX 580 & 3 year warranty = £1,243
Difference of £578

2.93GHz Mac Pro: 3x1GB, 640GB drive, 512MB GT 120, Applecare = £2,169
2.93GHz T3500: 3x1GB, 750GB drive, 512MB Quadro FX 580 & 3 year warranty = £1,536
Difference of £633

2x2.26GHz Mac Pro: 6x1GB, 640GB drive, 512MB GT 120, Applecare = £2,343
2x2.26GHz T5500: 6x1GB, 750GB drive, 512MB Quadro FX 580 & 3 year warranty = £1,948
Difference of £395

2x2.66GHz Mac Pro: 6x1GB, 640GB drive, 512MB GT 120, Applecare: £3,316
2x2.66GHz T5500: 6x1GB, 750GB drive, 512MB Quadro FX 580 & 3 year warranty = £3,162
Difference of £154

2x2.93GHz Mac Pro: 6x1GB, 640GB drive, 512MB GT 120, Applecare: £4,151
2x2.93GHz T5500: 6x1GB, 750GB drive, 512MB Quadro FX 580 & 3 year warranty = £3,972
Difference of £179
 
Jouhne said:
Here in Belgium

Dell Precision T3500 Quad 2,93 : 2896€ (21% tax inc.)

• Xeon W3540 2.93 GHz
• NVIDIA Quadro FX1800 (768 MB GDDR3 - 192-bit - Memory Bandwidth 38.4 GB/sec)
• 6 GB (6×1 GB) DDR3-1066 ECC RAM
• 1 TB SATA 7200 rpm
• 16x DVD+/-RW
• Creative SoundBlaster™ X-fi Titanium Sound card
• Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
(No FireWire, No Bluetooth, No Wifi)

vs

Apple Mac Pro Quad 2,93: 3199€ (21% tax inc.)

• Xeon W3540 2.93 GHz
• 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3-1066 ECC RAM
• 1 TB SATA 7200 rpm
• ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB (512 MB GDDR5 - 256-bit - Memory Bandwidth 115.2 GB/s)
• One 18x SuperDrive
• FireWire 800 - Bluetooth - Wifi
• ... Mac OS X

For 303€ more, I'm going with the Mac and FW800-Bluetooth-Wifi and OS X, thank you ;)

Edit : There is promo for the Dell until the end of April, so the normal price is 3040€ + Shipping : 42,35 €
So the real price is 3082,35 € (Dell) vs 3199€ (Mac).... 117€ more for the Mac Pro... is a no brainer :)
Click to expand...

The dell has a 3x more expensive graphics card, and a much better DISCRETE sound card (No integrated crap). These things are much more important compared to little things such as wifi, firewire and bluetooth. Plus the Dell has 6 memory slots. The Mac Pro only has 4. You can thus upgrade the Dell's memory more.
 
Salavat23 said:
The dell has a 3x more expensive graphics card, and a much better DISCRETE sound card (No integrated crap).
Click to expand...

Most mac pro purchasers aren't buying them to play games. While a better graphics card is useful for some workstation users, a discrete sound card is probably not a very big deal to them.
 
cmaier said:
Most mac pro purchasers aren't buying them to play games. While a better graphics card is useful for some workstation users, a discrete sound card is probably not a very big deal to them.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense. A 4870 is more of a gaming oriented card then the Quadro X1800 is.

My point was that you can't compare those two systems with price if they use different hardware.
 
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