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well what about like... the difference between 1080 and 720 with fast motion.

is it true that motion is choppier on 1080p?


i am looking to buy a 32 or 37" and with such a huge price difference on the 1080p models with out that much difference in appearance (especially from 5-8 feet away) i'm not sure if it's worth it.

at best buy my eyes couldn't discern the differences
 
1080p isn't 'supposedly' better, it is better (unless you're talking about the same data rates for each). Why would you buy a Rolex when a McDonald's Happy Meal watch tells the time just as good?

P-Worm

Isnt there not much of a noticeable difference until you start going beyond 42" screens?

Don't mind me tho, im one of those "Ive never had a problem with standard DVD so I dont give a damn about Bluray" nuts.
 
http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/

have a good read...

we have a 52" 1080p LCD and a PS3 (blu-ray player) and i'll say switching to Rock-Band 2 (a PS3 game displayed at 720p) from a blu-ray movie (1080p) there is a HUGE difference.
You don't think part the vast quality difference has to do w/Rock Band GFX vs a BR movie has anything to do w/that do you? RB and GH aren't exactly visual juggernauts in terms of eye candy.;)


michael.lauden,
How smooth the motion is is dependent on the frame rate (24p, 60p, 60i, etc.,.) not the frame size (1080 or 720).


Lethal
 
Isnt there not much of a noticeable difference until you start going beyond 42" screens?

Don't mind me tho, im one of those "Ive never had a problem with standard DVD so I dont give a damn about Bluray" nuts.

yeah i said the same things about VHS until i saw back to back with DVD's.
 
yeah i said the same things about VHS until i saw back to back with DVD's.

The leap from VHS to DVD is far greater than that of DVD to BD (thats the abbreviation right?). I have also seen the comparison many times on several different sets (even my projector in my basement). Its a whopping "meh" in my book.

Besides the advantages of DVD over VHS were vastly greater than DVD to BD, which are essentially the same medium with more storage capacity.
 
So what is the big deal between 480i/P and 720P?

The resolution difference between 720P and 1080i/P is just as significant as it is between 480P and 720P, actually a little more. With the jump to 720P from 480P difference is 240 lines, between 1080i/P and 720P you're gaining 320 lines of resolution.

You're confusing scanlines with lines of resolution. These are not the same thing and the latter is typically only used when dealing with analogue TV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lines_of_resolution).

Technically, a 720p picture has 3x the detail of a DVD since it is 1280x720 versus 720x480. Roughly 1 million pixels in 720p versus 300,000 for the standard def DVD.

Moving up to 1080i/p doubles the resolution again giving you 6x the detail of a DVD and twice the detail of a 720p picture.

1080i has exactly the same level of detail as 1080p and 1080i/60 can be converted back into 1080p/24 perfectly with the appropriate de-interlacing if the original source was 1080p/24. If the source was interlaced then there can be temporal differences between fields which make de-interlacing a similar challenge to the old analogue TV days.

Personally I find it fairly easy to tell the difference between 720P and 1080i/p sources at reasonable watching distances on my 46" Sony XBR4.

As others have pointed out, the 720p/60 broadcast format will result in a smoother image, more ideal for sports and fast action, but for everything else 24P or 30P is more than fine, and I honestly turn off "smooth motion" 120Hz processing on every TV that has it.

Since your monitor is likely 1080p it is bound to look sharper with 1080 material than 720 which doesn't map perfectly. If a 1440p display was available it would be interesting to see how 1080p which wouldn't map perfectly and 720p which would looked.

The quality of scaling has a massive impact on the picture quality. Oddly enough, I recently ripped an HD DVD and compared the original 1080p picture with the 720p down conversion I did for my ATV and the difference in detail when you zoomed right in was surprisingly minimal. Much less difference than the SD down conversion I also made.
 
You're confusing scanlines with lines of resolution. These are not the same thing and the latter is typically only used when dealing with analogue TV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lines_of_resolution).

Technically, a 720p picture has 3x the detail of a DVD since it is 1280x720 versus 720x480. Roughly 1 million pixels in 720p versus 300,000 for the standard def DVD.
Pixels, and pixel count are somewhat irrelivant, as they are the product of a square. 3x the pixel count =/= 3 times the sharpness.

Moving up to 1080i/p doubles the resolution again giving you 6x the detail of a DVD and twice the detail of a 720p picture.
Again, no it does not, twice the pixels does not suddenly double the ammount of resolution available for describing a diagonal line at a given aspect ratio.

1080i has exactly the same level of detail as 1080p and 1080i/60 can be converted back into 1080p/24 perfectly with the appropriate de-interlacing if the original source was 1080p/24.
No, it cannot. It can be deinterlaced, and it has to be in order to be displayed on a modern digital display, but information is always lost when dropping frames, especially when the final rate is not an even product of the original rate.

Since your monitor is likely 1080p it is bound to look sharper with 1080 material than 720 which doesn't map perfectly. If a 1440p display was available it would be interesting to see how 1080p which wouldn't map perfectly and 720p which would looked.
Are you suggesting that on an equivilant size display with a native resolution of 1280x720 (which almost no 720P display is), it would be equally as sharp as a 1080P display of the same size sitting next to it?

The quality of scaling has a massive impact on the picture quality. Oddly enough, I recently ripped an HD DVD and compared the original 1080p picture with the 720p down conversion I did for my ATV and the difference in detail when you zoomed right in was surprisingly minimal. Much less difference than the SD down conversion I also made.
I would question your vision, and playback equipment in that case.
 
Moving up to 1080i/p doubles the resolution again giving you 6x the detail of a DVD and twice the detail of a 720p picture.

No, 1080 gives you twice the frame size of 720... 1080i60 and 720p60 have the same data rate/bandwidth requirements. While 1080i has a larger frame size, 720p has twice the temporal resolution. That is why moving between 1080i and 720p is deemed a cross-conversion and not an up/down conversion.

djkirsten, 720p60 and 1080i60 are really interchangable in the broadcast world. if you sent a 720p60 master to a network that broadcasts 1080i, yeah they'd be mad, but 720p isn't considered inferior to 1080i. they'd just ask you to do the cross conversion.

for everyone else... if you think resolution is that big a deal, go watch Planet Earth again on BD. the majority of that footage was shot 720p on the Panasonic Varicam.
 
Pixels, and pixel count are somewhat irrelivant, as they are the product of a square. 3x the pixel count =/= 3 times the sharpness.

OK, lets put it this way, 1280x720 is able to show detail at 1.5x the vertical detail of DVD at 720x480 and 1.8x the horizontal detail. For sake of argument, lets say 720p is about 1.5x better than a really good DVD.

For 1080p, the improvement in resolution horizontally is 2.7x and 2.25x vertically so 1080p is about 2.5x better.

The horizontal difference between 720p and 1080p (1.5x) is less than the horizontal difference of 480p DVD to 720p (1.8x) and the vertical difference is about the same (1.5x increase from 480p -> 720p -> 1080p). Anyway, by those numbers, 1080p is still less of a step up from 720p than 720p is up from 480p. Not much in it, but still significant.

That does also ignore the fact that 720p encodes done with a more modern codec such as H.264 look technically better than a 480p MPEG2 typically.

For example, if I set my HD DVD player to output 480p, HD DVDs still look better than the same movie from a DVD, especially where colour is concerned.

There is much more to the quality of an image than absolute resolution. Level of compression used is also very important and a decent bit rate 720p can and often does look better than a 1080i image in the same bit rate.

No, it cannot. It can be deinterlaced, and it has to be in order to be displayed on a modern digital display, but information is always lost when dropping frames, especially when the final rate is not an even product of the original rate.

A 1080i/60 signal has not dropped any frames. It is using the same 3:2 pull-down that allowed 24 fps movies to be shown on old 60Hz NTSC displays. All 24 frames are there and they can be recovered perfectly with nothing lost.

Are you suggesting that on an equivilant size display with a native resolution of 1280x720 (which almost no 720P display is), it would be equally as sharp as a 1080P display of the same size sitting next to it?

Not at all but if you take an image which has exactly the native resolution as the picture displayed it will look sharper than having to scale an image that is non-native. Since 720p cannot be perfectly mapped onto a 1080p display it is going to look a little soft although scaler quality will have an impact on this. If a display with 1440 vertical pixels was used, then 720p may map better onto it than scaling 1080p onto it which wouldn't fit perfectly.

There is no need to attack me or my eyesight which just so you know, isn't the best in one eye since I nearly lost my sight last year through a very severely detached retina and had to go through multiple surgeries.

I'm just suggesting an experiment and a possible outcome.

I would question your vision, and playback equipment in that case.

:confused:

Really. No need for that at all.
 
You don't think part the vast quality difference has to do w/Rock Band GFX vs a BR movie has anything to do w/that do you? RB and GH aren't exactly visual juggernauts in terms of eye candy.;)


michael.lauden,
How smooth the motion is is dependent on the frame rate (24p, 60p, 60i, etc.,.) not the frame size (1080 or 720).


Lethal

The reason i used rock band as an example is because the graphics (still or moving) are designed to be played in 720p so when i sit there, 4 feet from the screen, playing the drums I can see that my 1080p TV is upconverting the image (some of the still graphics have obvious softness and lower-res jaggity edges). So yeah i know its not a prime example but i've definitely noticed it compared to watching WALL-E/The Dark Knight in blu-ray.
 
djkirsten, 720p60 and 1080i60 are really interchangable in the broadcast world. if you sent a 720p60 master to a network that broadcasts 1080i, yeah they'd be mad, but 720p isn't considered inferior to 1080i. they'd just ask you to do the cross conversion.

I agree, they wouldn't be pissed if i delivered a 1080i show in 720p, but if i delivered a 1080p show in 720p they'd have some words...

props to another youngin' in post production!
 
yeah 1080p24 is definitely the way to master 23.98 sources.

you can't really compare Rock Band to Dark Knight/WallE because you're judging the source and not necessarily the encode. you'd have to look at a 720 vs 1080 of the same final product.
 
yeah 1080p24 is definitely the way to master 23.98 sources.

you can't really compare Rock Band to Dark Knight/WallE because you're judging the source and not necessarily the encode. you'd have to look at a 720 vs 1080 of the same final product.

I've been playing with encoding my HD DVD collection onto my ATV and comparing the encodes against the original 1080p TS file. I've found that encoding with HandBrake with constant quality at 62% produces a file which is very close in quality to the original. You lose a little of the film grain but fine detail is close to identical. Slightly softer but from a normal viewing distance, indistinguishable. The video bit rate is about 5Mbps and I've also been able to convert the DD+ sound track to a 640Kbps DD track so this is about as good as the ATV can possibly do. Constant Quality at 59% produced a picture that looked a little over compressed at 2.75GB for a 1.5 hour movie whereas 62% pushed the file size up to 4GB but there is a noticeable increase in sharpness and lack of posterisation. I did try 70% for a laugh but it was barely compressing the file at all going from 15GB for 1080p to 8GB for 720p.

I did these encodes on my MacBook Pro using DVDfab HD decrypter (free for just extracting the disc data) under Windows Vista via Parallels, followed by tsmuxer on OS X, then vc1conv and eac3to (both Windows sadly) to make the streams compatible with HandBrake, remuxed them using tsmuxer and finally dropped into HandBrake for the final conversion. It is pretty time consuming but the end result is a really nice HD encode.

I've also managed to produce the hybrid HD/SD files for iTunes using the information on this site: http://www.thecheapgeek.org/2009/03/14/creating-dual-resolution-video-files-in-itunes/
 
well what about like... the difference between 1080 and 720 with fast motion.

is it true that motion is choppier on 1080p?


i am looking to buy a 32 or 37" and with such a huge price difference on the 1080p models with out that much difference in appearance (especially from 5-8 feet away) i'm not sure if it's worth it.

at best buy my eyes couldn't discern the differences


you are thinking 1080i with the fast motion issues... this does not happen with 1080p
 
you are thinking 1080i with the fast motion issues... this does not happen with 1080p
Like I said before, it comes down to frame rate. The lower the frame rate the less smooth the motion will be. 1080i60 produces smoother motion than 1080p24 because the image is getting 'updated' 60 times a second vs 24 times a second. In the case of interlacing the cost for having higher temporal resolution (higher frame rate) is reduced spacial resolution.



Lethal
 
you are thinking 1080i with the fast motion issues... this does not happen with 1080p
If you have a flat panel TV, then all content is displayed progressively. Flat panel sets buffer the first 540-line half-frame, interlaces that half-frame with the second 540-line half-frame, and then progressively displays complete 1080-line frames at 30 fps.
 
1080p 50/60
dream on suckers you aint gonna see that anytime soon unless you work in production for a nice big rich fat broadcaster. :rolleyes:

1080p 24
mmm yummy ex bluray or hdvd :p

1080i 50/60
nice if it's uncompressed and the pixels are genuinely square :cool:

720p 50/60
nice square pixels but a little bit of a compromise, generally looks great and is good for most TV TX purposes. :)

1080i compressed
through the standard digital transmission chain is kinda ok, but compressed to much ...... and yuck! :eek:

720p looks better than all the rest if lots of compression is applied:D
 
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