8-Core Mac Pros have arrived.

[shawnce]

New Quad Kentsfield Mini-Tower

On a side note I am still hoping for something like that as well... in $1,500+ range with 2 PCIe (one 16x other 8x) and two drive bays. If that would happen a good number of folks in the engineering group at the company I work at would switch to Macs (many would still run Windows on daily basis but it would allow more to do Mac development as needed... it becomes a smarter investment for many of our developers).

 

[ajneuman]

MacPro is still a bit cheaper!

Mac Pro was chaper than a equivalent Dell eight months ago. During that eight months, the price of Mac Pro has remained stable. What has happened to the price of Dell? Is it still more expensive (I honestly don't know)?

Here's the closest Dell I could compare to the MacPro

MacPro $8100

• Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
• 4GB (4 x 1GB)
• 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
• 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
• NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI)
• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
• Two 16x SuperDrives


Dell Precision 690 $8769

Components
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5355 2.66GHz, 2 X 4MB L2,1333
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5355 2.66GHz, 2 X 4MB L2,1333
4GB, DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC in Riser (4 DIMMS)
512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 4500, Dual DVI or Dual VGA or DVI + VGA
500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM Hard Drive with 16MB DataBurst Cache™
500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM Hard Drive with 16MB DataBurst Cache™
Dell 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FP Widescreen, adjustable stand, VGA/DVI
Dell 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007FP Widescreen, adjustable stand, VGA/DVI
16XDVD AND 16XDVD+/-RW, Roxio and Cyberlink PowerDVD™ Vista Busi

 

[bloodycape]

I bet the Dell would cost the same after a rebate or two.

 

[goosnarrggh]

Do you happen to know the retail price for a 3 Ghz Quad-Core Xeon? (assuming Apple isn't over-clocking)

I can tell you that the street price for a 2.66 GHz Woodcrest is between $689 and $719. (I cannot find the volume price immediately...)

The quantity 1000 price for Clovertown 3.0 GHz is slated to take over the position currently held by the 2.66 HGz Clovertown at $1172.

So if Apple omits the 2 Woodcrests, they'll be saving around $1378. Let's lowball that to around to $1000 in an appempt to account for volume discount.

Then Apple inserts 2 Clovertowns for $2344.

That's a total price differential of $1344. The 8-core 3.0 GHz Mac Pro will cost $1498 more than the 4-core 2.66 GHz model. [edit] Now that I think about it, that amounts to about 10% of marginal profit. Sounds acceptable I guess. [/edit]

 

[psycho bob]

Well the UK gets cinema display price drops!

30in = £1199
23in = £599
20in = £399

8 Core is coming to the UK just no prices up yet but we're getting there!

 

[yadmonkey]

Just a theory, but perhaps the reason they don't yet offer Bluray is that they might lose money on Applecare. I mean, the average life of a drive like this isn't likely to be all that good.

 

[wildmac]

The add-on cards seem fine but the base card should be better.

I'd rather have the option of picking what I want... The ATI is perfect for almost all uses.

And I certainly don't want that newfangled DirectX 10 GPU which very little supports yet.. (Just look at all the problems Vista gamers are having becuase of DirectX).

 

[statikcat]

I'd rather have the option of picking what I want... The ATI is perfect for almost all uses.

And I certainly don't want that newfangled DirectX 10 GPU which very little supports yet.. (Just look at all the problems Vista gamers are having becuase of DirectX).

Yes but point is the stock card is not good. Nothing wrong with options to pick good cards but they shouldnt be "add ons" to a computer of this level. A good card should come stock. Oh well I am sure this will change soon .. been waiting too long!

 

[shawnce]

I can tell you that the street price for a 2.66 GHz Woodcrest is between $689 and $719. (I cannot find the volume price immediately...)

The quantity 1000 price for Clovertown 3.0 GHz is slated to take over the position currently held by the 2.66 HGz Clovertown at $1172.

However that pricing isn't currently rumored to happen until July with the larger Quad/Dual core price realignment.

So we don't know what Apple is paying for these 3 GHz chips at this time... in otherwords at this time I don't think we can say much about how good or bad Apple's pricing are for these.

 

[wildmac]

Most people seem to want a better GPU for gaming, you never see people clamoring for other quadro cards which offer way better performance than any consumer card for most serious non-gaming applications. Sadly for them Apple don't seem to care about gamers, certainly not as far as the Pro is concerned.

You mean that directX mess?.. You really want something 50% or more of the games don't support yet?.. Ask someone with Vista and a DirectX card about their framerates in WoW.

The ATI card is fine... the hardcore gamers already have a PC, AND use a bunch of other custom peripherals that aren't available for the Mac either.

 

[bankshot]

https://www.doubleed.com/secure.html

Look at the "Watts Up?" meter as well - lots of different readouts (type in your power cost per kwh, and it will display the accumulating cost of running).

It will also record readings into its memory, to be read out by USB.

Yeah, the Watts Up with USB looked pretty sweet when I was looking for power usage meters, but I just couldn't justify the price for what I wanted to do (save a few bucks on the electricity bill by identifying energy pigs). The $24 Kill-a-Watt is comparable to the $96 (non-USB) Watts Up, so do the math.

 

[wuzelwazel]

Not Exactly...

The way I understand it

2 x 3.0 Dual Core option is 2 chips in the machine, both chips having 2 cores = total 4 cores.

2 x 3.0 Quad Core option is 2 chips again, only each chip has 4 cores = total 8 cores

each chip runs at 3.0Ghz

...I think

Each core runs at 3.0GHz. Separate cores essentially separate chips... on the same chip (;

 

[wildmac]

Yes but point is the stock card is not good. Nothing wrong with options to pick good cards but they shouldnt be "add ons" to a computer of this level. A good card should come stock. Oh well I am sure this will change soon .. been waiting too long!

MANY of these machines are used for applications where the video card may not even be used. Why should an engineer have to pay for a gaming card?..

The BTO option is right there.

HOWEVER, it would be nice if they had some standard option sets, so you could buy a system with the ATI card or the video-editing card from the Apple store directly.

 

[shawnce]

Yes but point is the stock card is not good. Nothing wrong with options to pick good cards but they shouldnt be "add ons" to a computer of this level.

Why not as add-ons? The Mac Pro has far more uses then ones gated by the video adapter.

For example I use my work Mac Pro as a development system, compiling code, etc. I have no use for a better video adapter so why should I pay for it?

My home Mac Pro I use for development and gaming... I payed for a better video adapter for that system as a result of having the need. On that side of things I am hoping to get a chance at the Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX (or maybe GTS) in the near future (note I am happy to wait since the architecture and related driver are so new, let someone else feel the pain)...

 

[nuckinfutz]

Just a theory, but perhaps the reason they don't yet offer Bluray is that they might lose money on Applecare. I mean, the average life of a drive like this isn't likely to be all that good.

If Apple were to offer a Blu-ray drive they'd have to support it via some sort of software. I don't think we'll see a Blu-ray option until it is supported by Apple software. We'll see at NAB if Apple adds Blu-ray authoring support to their DVD Studio Pro application to match their support for HD DVD. I'm hoping both are well supported and BTO options for drives are included.

Why not as add-ons? The Mac Pro has far more uses then ones gated by the video adapter.

For example I use my work Mac Pro as a development system, compiling code, etc. I have no use for a better video adapter so why should I pay for it?

My home Mac Pro I use for development and gaming... I payed for a better video adapter for that system as a result of having the need. On that side of things I am hoping to get a chance at the Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX (or maybe GTS) in the near future...

This is an excellent point that seems missed by many. Apple creates "basic" configs because they know the people who need a Workstation class computer are going to buld their ideal computer. It doesn't make any sense to jack up the cost of the Mac Pro with Quadro cards and gobs of RAM making the base price appear to be $8000 scaring people away.

 

[pake]

It is the world’s first 3.0GHz, 8-core Intel Xeon-based Mac!!!!!!!!!!!
yes, i know you all know but it's the world’s first 3.0GHz, 8-core Intel Xeon-based Mac!!!!
Is it also the world’s first 3.0GHz, 8-core Intel Xeon-based Computer?

 

[princealfie]

If Apple were to offer a Blu-ray drive they'd have to support it via some sort of software. I don't think we'll see a Blu-ray option until it is supported by Apple software. We'll see at NAB if Apple adds Blu-ray authoring support to their DVD Studio Pro application to match their support for HD DVD. I'm hoping both are well supported and BTO options for drives are included.

Plus we may need to get a Mac-compatible HDCP graphics card option too!

 

[Eidorian]

A "digital multi meter" is a common instrument anyone who works on electronics would have. They make consummer level meters too where you simply plug in the device under test and it reads out the power use.

But if all you own is a simple $10 volt meter you can put a low ohm resister in series with the device and measure the AC voltage across the resister and use Ohm's law to find the current.

If the answer is 200W then if power costs $0.25 per KWH then the MP costs $0.25 every five hours of use. or over $1.20 per day if left on 24x7 that's $36 per month in electric power. OK, $0.25 is a worst case rate. Half that is more common. So assume it's only $20 per month to run an 8 core MP. You can see why Apple is using notebook components in the consumer level machines.

$0.25 kWh! Ouch! We get between $0.07-0.09 around here.

https://www.doubleed.com/secure.html

Look at the "Watts Up?" meter as well - lots of different readouts (type in your power cost per kwh, and it will display the accumulating cost of running).

It will also record readings into its memory, to be read out by USB.

I think that was the one I was looking for.

In after AidenShaw.

 

[shawnce]

Plus we may need to get a Mac-compatible HDCP graphics card option too!

Humm that reminds me I should go poking around my Leopard developer seed to see if I can tell what is in the works... not that I will share that information with you folks

 

[CptnJustc]

Hmm, should adding a top-end processor really qualify as an upgrade in terms of the buyer's guide? I'm guessing that adding a +$1500 option at the top isn't enough for most people to take the Mac Pro from "Don't Buy" to "Buy Now! - product just updated".

 

[princealfie]

Humm that reminds me I should go poking around my Leopard developer seed to see if I can tell what is in the works... not that I will share that information with you folks

Perhaps we can mod that X1900 then?

 

[SPUY767]

You mean that directX mess?.. You really want something 50% or more of the games don't support yet?.. Ask someone with Vista and a DirectX card about their framerates in WoW.

The ATI card is fine... the hardcore gamers already have a PC, AND use a bunch of other custom peripherals that aren't available for the Mac either.

My MacPro is my gaming PC, it's not difficult to shoehorn a mondo powerful card like my 7950GX2 in there, and an 8800 or one of the new radeons would be fine. It only works under windows, but I only need it to play games, everything I do on the mac is fine with my 7300.

 

[shawnce]

Hmm, should adding a top-end processor really qualify as an upgrade in terms of the buyer's guide? I'm guessing that adding a +$1500 option at the top isn't enough for most people to take the Mac Pro from "Don't Buy" to "Buy Now! - product just updated".

I don't think it should either... this new BTO doesn't really change the timing of a revamp of the Mac Pro chip-set/etc.

In generally I think the Mac Pro is a different beast then PowerMacs and the rest of Mac product line in the way Apple will update and sell it. I believe the BTO items will change more often (then what we saw with the PowerMac) with the chip-set changes following fairly closely with major Intel updates.

In other words the buyers guide should likely track the chip-set trends.

 

[t^3]

It is the world’s first 3.0GHz, 8-core Intel Xeon-based Mac!!!!!!!!!!!
yes, i know you all know but it's the world’s first 3.0GHz, 8-core Intel Xeon-based Mac!!!!
Is it also the world’s first 3.0GHz, 8-core Intel Xeon-based Computer?

AFAIK, yes it is. The 3.0GHz Clovertown chip (quad-core Xeon, model X5365) isn't going to be announced until July, at which time it will cost $1172 (volume pricing). Looks like Apple has a 3 month exclusivity deal with Intel! Based on the articles below, I wouldn't count on price drops until at least WWDC or even July.

http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Readies+New+Xeons+and+Price+Cuts/article6493.htm

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38687

Edit: This was mentioned already a few pages back - sorry for the repeat. Also, no exclusive deal has been announced or even suggested, so we could see 8-core 3GHz systems from Dell anytime.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Plus we may need to get a Mac-compatible HDCP graphics card option too!

D'oh ...the most obvious reason was staring me right in the face.

Humm that reminds me I should go poking around my Leopard developer seed to see if I can tell what is in the works... not that I will share that information with you folks

<green with envy> Well you could always PM the info to some of us. I hereby offer you my own personal and public NDA that I shall now divulge information given by you to anyone else effective immediately

Hmm, should adding a top-end processor really qualify as an upgrade in terms of the buyer's guide? I'm guessing that adding a +$1500 option at the top isn't enough for most people to take the Mac Pro from "Don't Buy" to "Buy Now! - product just updated".

I imagine that people who need CPU power (renderfarms and scientific heavy calc stuff) would welcome the additional cores. Many people simply do not need 8-cores at this point. In a year there will probably be 8-core models at $2500-3000 making it more mainstream.