8800 GT vs. HD 3870

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Topper, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Topper macrumors 65816

    Topper

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    #1
    Some people on this forum think that maybe Apple waited for ATI to bring out the HD 3870 video card before launching the new Mac Pro.
    I've been wondering the same thing.
    THERE IS ONE HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS WAY OF THINKING...the assumption being that the next Mac Pro will have the HD 3870 as the bto consumer card.
    The HD 3870 is a crappy video card.
    The GeForce 8800 GT is a much better card.
    Numerous sites have pitted the 8800 GT against the HD 3870 and the 8800 GT is easily the winner.
    WHICH OF COURSE MEANS THAT THE NEXT MAC PRO WILL HAVE THE HD 3870 AS THE BTO CONSUMER VIDEO CARD.

    PC Perspective: “Chances are good that AMD was as surprised as we were by the G92 performance results, since NVIDIA basically killed off sales of their GTS and GTX models by pushing the speeds up so high. Rather than try to bump up the speeds in a rush to compete, AMD decided to leave the HD 3870 where it was and keep the pricing at a level that would make it competitive with the options from the other green team. The performance of the HD 3870 is good, just not great.”

    AnandTech: “Without a doubt, AMD is back in the graphics game. When the Radeon HD 2900 XT launched, we couldn't be more surprised at how poorly the product did. The lack of competition allowed NVIDIA to sit back and relax as the orders for more 8800-based product kept on flowing in. While the Radeon HD 3870 isn't faster than the GeForce 8800 GT, if AMD can hit its price point, it is a viable alternative if you're looking to save money.
    AMD is in a lot of trouble however if the 8800 GT pricing/availability problem does get worked out; the 8800 GT does offer better performance-per-watt and better performance in general.”

    Hot Hardware: If street prices for the Radeon 3870 and 3850 end up much higher, they will face some stiff competition from the GeForce 8800 GT, which outperforms the new Radeons in just about every game engine we tested. And don’t forget a less expensive 256MB GT is on the way as well. Fortunately for AMD, the GeForce 8800 GT is tough to find at the moment and it’s selling for much more than its MSRP.”

    TweakTown: “The Radeon HD 3870 is good but it’s not fantastic.”

    Hardware Canucks: “Without a doubt the HD3870 is a step in the right direction for the new ATI and it can serve as a great building block for future cards. Sure, it does not compete with the 8800GT in terms of absolute performance but its price is nearly impossible to beat.”

    Legion Hardware: “Well there you have it, another disappointing release from AMD/ATI. Although they have managed to undercut Nvidia by reducing the cost of the Radeon HD 3870 by around 12% when compared to the GeForce 8800 GT, we found that on average it was 19% slower. So then in terms of value the GeForce 8800 GT looks to preserve its position as the best value high-end graphics card ever released. The GeForce 8800 GT has proven to be a strong performer, as has the entire GeForce 8800 series ever since it was first introduced over a year ago now.”

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  2. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    #2
    *face palm*

    The 3870 costs less then the 8800 GT and has worse performance? :rolleyes: I'm looking at a 3850 since it's supposed to launch at ~$179 with some overclocking head room and it's single slot. ATi positioned the 38xx Series at LOWER price points then the 8800 GT.
     
  3. Topper thread starter macrumors 65816

    Topper

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    #3
    Maybe it's as PC Perspective says, “Chances are good that AMD was as surprised as we were by the G92 performance results."
    Maybe ATI had to do it to be competitive.

    You'll get over it.
     
  4. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    Indianapolis
    #4
    The 38xx Series competes well for being a budget performance card and using the 55 nm process. :p

    I don't see anything wrong with the card. Anything else?
     
  5. Topper thread starter macrumors 65816

    Topper

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    Jun 17, 2007
    #5
    Nope, carry on.
     
  6. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #6
    Well, I hope you'll enjoy trying to find an 8800GT when nVidia is trying to upsell customers to the GTS or GTX.

    ATi will be happy to find a lot of people wanting something better then the original 29xx/88xx cards to fill that space.

    I'll be there to get a 3850 when it hits the stores online. Let's not even consider CrossFire either. :p
     
  7. Jul macrumors newbie

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    Sep 27, 2006
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #7
    after reading several reviews (anandtech...) it would be pretty nice to see the 3870 to be the standard card. but realistically i would say that the 3850 is going to be in the next mac pro. As far as the 8800gt goes there are two problems in my opinion: there is a huge shortage making the card more expensive than nvidia advertised them to be (from 200-250 to 250-300), the cooler is too loud, nvidia should have made the card a two-slot card like the HD3870.
     
  8. macz1 macrumors 6502

    macz1

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    #8
    I think the 3870 is not a bad card. Although it's often left behind the 8800GT performance wise, it can beat the nvidia card in some DX10 benchmarks. But a very important thing is the low power consumption for its performance and hence the low noise it produces. There aren't many raisonably performing cards consuming less than 60 Watts...
     
  9. art4med macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    #9
    OP premise follow-up

    The OP presumed Apple waiting for ATI to release GPU before new MP..... OK, so WHEN is the 3870HD out? :')
     
  10. Topper thread starter macrumors 65816

    Topper

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    #10
    Performance per dollar the HD 3850 is probably the best deal out there.
    In crossfire, both the 3850 and 3870 will perform nicely.

    I hope to enjoy a 8800 GT card.

    How rude!
     
  11. Topper thread starter macrumors 65816

    Topper

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    #11
    True, but we don't know if Apple already had stocked-up on the 8800 GT before the shortage.
    I'll pay the extra money just because of the 8800 GT's performance.

    Now
     
  12. Tallest Skil macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #12
    This morning. So new Mac Pros today, eh? :rolleyes: Better tanj well be... I want a Nehalem before August...
     
  13. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #13
    I'm glad we ended up on better terms. :D

    I haven't seen a HD 38xx series online yet. :(
     
  14. Pressure macrumors 68040

    Pressure

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    Denmark
    #14
    Give the graphic cards a rest.

    They are not directly competing as they have a different MSRP and cover a different market segment. The Radeon HD 3800 series is also using less power at idle and load, which results in it being quieter as well. Frankly I would pick the Radeon HD 3800 series because it's a beast in professional applications that make use of the graphic card.

    What should be important is that the next Mac Pro will feature a pair of Penryn based Xeons and the i5400 chipset.
     
  15. Topper thread starter macrumors 65816

    Topper

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    #15
    I haven't either but many places are showing 2 to 6 weeks shipping time.
    This PLACE is showing quite a few units coming in on the 21st.

    I also noticed the HD 3850 seems to be more expensive than I thought it should be.
    I found 9 vendors selling it at an average of $229. Low price - $208. High price - $267
     
  16. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #16
    You guys are so funny, This is Apple we are talking about and they hate the two major GPU makers plain and simple. They use those video cards because they have to. Here is my take on the next MacPro and its going to be using a ATI 2600 Pro. Only it will be the full size video card not the mobile crap. You wont see anything better in the base machine. Lets hope the 8800GT is a option but dont count on it.
     
  17. Wild-Bill macrumors 68030

    Wild-Bill

    Joined:
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    bleep
    #17
    Price gouging FTW. Isn't it supposed to come in at a $179.0 price point??

    Basically, think of the card you would most like to see Apple put in the MIA Mac Pro. Now forget it, because they won't do it. :p
     
  18. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    #18
    Just ordered my Diamond 3850 from NewEgg for $179! :D :D

    Note: Yes it needs two big smiles.
     
  19. Topper thread starter macrumors 65816

    Topper

    Joined:
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    #19
    Congratulations!
     
  20. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    #20
    Thanks, it's for a budget gaming rig that I'm working on.

    It looks like the 3850 is coming in the 256 MB variant with the 3870 at 512 MB. The 3850 is also the only one that's available as well. The 3870 and 8800GT are back ordered.

    My credit card has been charged as well. I hope that's a good sign.
     
  21. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #21
    I think the statement that the Radeon HD3870 is a "crappy" video card is an exaggeration at best...

    At any rate, people who use Logic or Photoshop don't care how many FPS their card can pull in Crysis, so I doubt that game performance will have any influence on the standard GPU in the Mac Pro revision.
     
  22. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #22
    for now.. i wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later down the road more developers jump on offloading more work to GPUs

    i've seen some HPC projects results where with the use of addational GPUs in a cluster performanceat certain algorithms were improved by a huge factor (10x and higher) because of the high amount of parallism in modern graphics cards

    the problem currently is that so far there is no common code base between manufactures (NVIDIA, ATI and even Microsoft have their own libraries afaik) so very few spend developing time on it since the solutions wouldn't be 100% portable

    that said it would be still very feasable for apple to think about designing a PCe booster card or something for their own pro apps using a FPGA since that can even offer more advantages since the FPGA could be configured a lot more different than a GPU which simply is a bunch of massive parallel FP units (for example on some traffic simulation speedup was 36x, working on some cray machine who had 1 additional 400mhz FPGA for each 2 2ghz opteron pair)

    the problem is that the developing gap is still there in those approaches (GPU: no clear standard, FPGA: developing chain/compilers not there, VHDL still too common)
     
  23. mastersoft macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    #23
    how about performance in 3D....3DSMAX (on windows ) ...MAYA ? is the ati 3870 better in viewport than the 8800GT ??
     
  24. Firefly2002 macrumors 65816

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    #24
    And the reason you dug up an 8ish month old thread is... because?
     
  25. Chilz0r macrumors regular

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    Jul 20, 2007
    #25
    +1. This guy knows what he is talking about.
     

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