I can’t wait until they try to argue that the M4 works best with 4gb ram.
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8GB RAM on M3 MacBook Pro 'Analogous to 16GB' on PCs, Claims Apple
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Apple knows what it is doing. 3rd party resellers will have sales and discounts on the standard SKUs but Apple knows that if you want a 16 GB model you will need to come to them to buy BTO and they don't reduce the prices.
MacOS had it for ages cause it's UNIX-based.
This should be tossed in here. 
It won’t change much, but it should be interesting reading for some that haven’t seen it before.
It won’t change much, but it should be interesting reading for some that haven’t seen it before.
I see no issue with this. The biggest mistake Apple makes is sticking with the ‘Pro’ name. Because it give certain pro’s the idea the machines are only for them. Unless you are rendering 4k video and creating dozens of photos a day, you are not allowed to buy a pro. Go to the Air line!
A pro could be anyone. Maybe they want or need the extra ports, or like the design better, or what ever.
Want 16gb or ram, buy it. Want 8gb of ram, buy it.
Every time these discussions come up I get so amazed by the elitist attitudes that come out of some people.
A pro could be anyone. Maybe they want or need the extra ports, or like the design better, or what ever.
Want 16gb or ram, buy it. Want 8gb of ram, buy it.
Every time these discussions come up I get so amazed by the elitist attitudes that come out of some people.
Yeah, but it is as bad as it sounds. If you're using your Mac for more than Email and maybe plug it into a 4K monitor every now and then, you are going to notice RAM-related issues regularly. The Mac is dead for minutes to swap in pages, and no ML helps.
Apple needs to turn off its reality distortion field and just offer 16 GB for the base model.
When the M1's first came out, every reviewer was raving about how 8GB was like 16GB, with tests such as opening 50 apps at the same time with no slowdown. That was only three years ago. What was WOW three years ago is now considered an insult. Just an observation, but I'm sure you all remember what everyone was saying not so long ago, which was exactly what this Apple executive was saying. Does the normal user need 16, or only techies like us who visit these forums who are likely not the average or base machine type user? Think marketing person or program manager. They are pro users, too.
I checked some Windows machines. I found a rather interesting thing. Microsoft's own Surface Laptop has a base model of 8/256, costing $200 to upgrade to 16GB. Dell is a little cheaper, but not by much (closer to $150). It looks like most of their base machines are 16/256. HP's base machines that I found were all 8/256. It seems a lot of computer makers have very similar base specs as Apple does. Maybe these companies know something we don't as consumers, such as what the average user needs?
I checked some Windows machines. I found a rather interesting thing. Microsoft's own Surface Laptop has a base model of 8/256, costing $200 to upgrade to 16GB. Dell is a little cheaper, but not by much (closer to $150). It looks like most of their base machines are 16/256. HP's base machines that I found were all 8/256. It seems a lot of computer makers have very similar base specs as Apple does. Maybe these companies know something we don't as consumers, such as what the average user needs?
The out of memory error I got in Photos on my M1 Air says otherwise.
Right. I bet those 48mp photos and 4K video taken in Apple‘s own iPhone 15 Pro are exempt from any size limitations. Fairy dust, I guess.
Yes, of course, it may be more efficient, but in practice, you're charging for 8 gigabytes on Macs as if it were 16 gigabytes on PCs. Furthermore, it's proven that efficiency is largely due to heavy SSD usage, which wears out faster. However, thanks Tim for the clear and satisfying explanation, I finally understood! And how silly of me to think that greed had something to do with it!
The base model M3 14” MBP isn’t for pro users. It’s for people who’d otherwise buy a MBA but are willing to trade off a bit of extra weight and thickness for a better display and speakers, and lots of ports.
And… 8gb is 8gb.
And… 8gb is 8gb.
todays iphone comes with 8GB. This shows how small 8GB RAM is in 2023.
Sometimes Apple would be best advised not to have people fight fires by digging deeper holes. Yes 8Gb of unified memory performs well, but it isn't 16Gb and in this day and age it should be 16Gb base on iMacs and MacBook range.
Whilst unified memory performs well, if you look back at base memory in the past, in my opinion a base 8Gb is too low, unified or not.
When genuine concerns are raised about 8Gb it doesn't help Apple to have someone digging deeper holes, and where the cost to 16Gb base would be negligible for them.
What it does do is give ammunition to Apple haters, suggesting Apple will do anything to save money and extract more from consumers.
A base of 16Gb would halt the criticism and do wonders for PR, unlike buffoons that dig deeper holes. Raise the base price by a few dollars if you have to, but move to 16Gb. Its then a selling point over competitors, rather than a millstone.
Whilst unified memory performs well, if you look back at base memory in the past, in my opinion a base 8Gb is too low, unified or not.
When genuine concerns are raised about 8Gb it doesn't help Apple to have someone digging deeper holes, and where the cost to 16Gb base would be negligible for them.
What it does do is give ammunition to Apple haters, suggesting Apple will do anything to save money and extract more from consumers.
A base of 16Gb would halt the criticism and do wonders for PR, unlike buffoons that dig deeper holes. Raise the base price by a few dollars if you have to, but move to 16Gb. Its then a selling point over competitors, rather than a millstone.
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And 256GB SSD of storage is analogous of 2TB SSD on a PC?
This is a nonsense claim that has been parroted by apologists since the M1 is introduced. There is no data to back it up.
It's true that the M1 with 8GB is a better CPU than any Intel laptop CPU with 16GB, but that's despite the lack of RAM not because of some efficiency magic inside the RAM.
There are much more honest answers they could have given, e.g.: The RAM is much faster and lower latency, which is more important than the amount. Or: All MacBooks ship with very fast SSDs so we know the RAM size isn't a bottleneck for most users.
I'd still disagree, but at least it's not made up.
It's true that the M1 with 8GB is a better CPU than any Intel laptop CPU with 16GB, but that's despite the lack of RAM not because of some efficiency magic inside the RAM.
There are much more honest answers they could have given, e.g.: The RAM is much faster and lower latency, which is more important than the amount. Or: All MacBooks ship with very fast SSDs so we know the RAM size isn't a bottleneck for most users.
I'd still disagree, but at least it's not made up.
To my surprise I've noticed Windows uses less RAM for at least office productivity.
Plus there's always even more lightweight custom Windows distributions you can install or you can just cut out the crap out of Windows. And you can use different versions of apps, e.g. older faster Office.
yea, but those old hdds could be replaced with ssds. Here you are stuck with what you get.
My main point is just about every computer maker uses the same base specs with expensive upgrades, yet no one else gets heat for it. Also, if everybody uses the same base spec, what does that tell you about what the average user needs? If no one can get by with 8/256, no one would sell that configuration.
Apple be like “no it really is that big, it’s just cold”
This is all the proof you need that 8GB of RAM will always be the starting point.
Stop comparing the baseline consumer-oriented Windows offerings to devices Apple chooses to label as “Pro”. If you are not a professional, you can configure a Windows based solution with more RAM and storage for hundreds of dollars less, and you will likely still have some level of upgradability if you later find you need it.
The problem is the cost, and the expensive upgrade. It should come with 16 GB of RAM, but if it doesn't, don't charge $200 for what costs the company $20-25.
For me 8GB is enough for M2. Runs BeamNG and rocket league at about 120FPS on 1080p without battery saver, and 30FPS for BeamNG and 60 FPS for rocket league on low power mode. Blender renders do crash sometimes because of not enough GPU memory, but otherwise still fast with cycles and eevee rendering engines. Of course, people’s needs are different, but 8GB is suitable for me with 256GB disk storage.
Everyone gets heat for this. Apple is not alone.