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wdlove

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 20, 2002
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Death toll reaches 96 in a fire at RI nightclub; 187 hurt. Injured sent to RI & MA hospitals, 35 are listed in critical condition from severe burns & smoke inhalation. A criminal probe is opened, information so far points to the band. At prior nightclubs they used pyrotechnics without the permission of the club.
A camerman caught moments when the Great White's fireworks ignited the fire.

The Station Nightclub had completed an inspection last December. They made the requested repairs and so were in compliance with fire regulations.

The pyrotechnics show lacked state and local permits.

As the hope waned, the familes were looking for answers.

The elation of the concert turned to horror in just seconds. The building was completely engulfed in flames after 5 minutes.

It's the 4th deadliest fire in US history!

My prayers go out to the victims and their families.:(

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/22/national/22WARW.html?th
 
On our way back to NJ the other day my parents heard this over repeatedly on the radio. The commentary was pretty high on the speakers, so I basically memorized what happened, as well as a few individual's opinions.

(not registered for NYTimes.com)

#1: Some people would begin to accuse the cameraman for watching the flame spread throughout the old building and blocking the way out for many people. The cameraman was being bumped and shoved because he was in the way for that many people.

#2: The pyrotechnitions are at fault for the incident. (A) You MUST have a license to work with pyro, and you MUST be capable of handling the pyro. (B) There was a lot of "finger pointing" about who started what about the incident. Some blamed the group. Others blamed the entire club, etc. (C) One of the DJ radiowoman was discussing what concert bands do when they say doors open at some time, but open 30 minutes later. During that 30 minutes, all of the gismos and gadgets are being tested for the performance. If anything fails, it is dealt with BEFORE civilians enter the building. (D) The pyros were not tested or were not properly tested, thus, it is the pyrotechnitions' fault for failing to test instruments and preventing this accident.

#3 Basically what it comes down to is people wishing to satisfy others while satisfying themselves (money for charisma). Yet people forget the basics. Check your instruments and anything liable for plausible damage or destruction, then worry about your earnings. Now because these guys failed to do so, I see little positive fanfare in their future.
 
Originally posted by King Cobra
#2: The pyrotechnitions are at fault for the incident. (A) You MUST have a license to work with pyro, and you MUST be capable of handling the pyro. (B) There was a lot of "finger pointing" about who started what about the incident. Some blamed the group. Others blamed the entire club, etc. (C) One of the DJ radiowoman was discussing what concert bands do when they say doors open at some time, but open 30 minutes later. During that 30 minutes, all of the gismos and gadgets are being tested for the performance. If anything fails, it is dealt with BEFORE civilians enter the building. (D) The pyros were not tested or were not properly tested, thus, it is the pyrotechnitions' fault for failing to test instruments and preventing this accident.
According to the nightclub, in a statement released today i think, they said that they were not informed of the fact that the group wanted to use pyro.
It is most likely the fault of the group, which I believe has used pyro before without consent from the nightclubs.
 
they both probably will be sued. someone will file a lawsuit on both of them. just wait, it will happen.

iJon
 
"compliance with fire regulations" or not, my opinion is, pyrotechnics in a roofed place should be banned.

i do not know this group Great White. i guess they are a small local(?) group. that means they might not have the means to acquire a real professional pyrotechnician.

a tragic thing. my condolences. stay safe people.
 
The first main question is:

Are the band members alive?

The responsability falls:

1. Band members.

2. The Night Club Owner.

He hire the talent and let the people in. If the Owner of the club is not responsable neither the rest of the other Night Clubs owners taht in the future may do something similar.

Night Clubs in the US have to really be regulated because such tragedies are more usual in the US just because most of the clubs are smaller in very crawded cities. At list compared to the clubs in my city that can have the oportunity to have a very open air place just because we do not have winter.
 
Re: The first main question is:

Originally posted by mymemory
Are the band members alive?

The responsability falls:

1. Band members.

2. The Night Club Owner.

He hire the talent and let the people in. If the Owner of the club is not responsable neither the rest of the other Night Clubs owners taht in the future may do something similar.

Night Clubs in the US have to really be regulated because such tragedies are more usual in the US just because most of the clubs are smaller in very crawded cities. At list compared to the clubs in my city that can have the oportunity to have a very open air place just because we do not have winter.

Only one from the band is missing a guitarist.

Jeff Derderian, a local TV reporter and co-owner of The Station nightclub, broke down yesterday while reading a prepared statment. Jeff denied again that any use of pyrotechnics used by the band was unauthorized. "It is very difficult to express what I experienced at the club that evening, trying to get people out to safety." "Please know I tried as hard as I could. Many people didn't make it out and that is a horror that will haunt my family and I for the rest of our lives."

Carl Carcieri, governor of RI at a live news conference today at 12n announced an ecumentical service this evening at 6pm in West Warwick
 
Carl Carcieri, governor of RI at a news conference this afternoon announced another body found, total dead at 97. 42 of them have now been positively identified. Forensic scientist are working around the clock.

Families got to visit the site this afternoon via buses. No media or politicians aloud.
 
Originally posted by redAPPLE
i do not know this group Great White. i guess they are a small local(?) group.
they were big, back in the 80's. that is what my brother and sister told me who are like in there 30's. I'm only 17 so I have never heard of them as well.

iJon
 
Families visit scene of deadly nightclub fire

Rhode Island governor: 42 victims identified


Monday, February 24, 2003 Posted: 2:45 AM EST (0745 GMT)

WEST WARWICK, Rhode Island (CNN) -- About 200 family members visited the charred remains of the Rhode Island nightclub Sunday afternoon to mourn at the spot where 97 of their loved ones died.

Rhode Island Gov. Don Carcieri said after the visit that many of the relatives expressed thanks for the chance to visit the charred remains of The Station club, which burned to the ground Thursday night after pyrotechnics from the rock band Great White's stage show ignited soundproofing material behind the stage. The resulting flames quickly engulfed the building.

The relatives were taken to the site in buses, and reporters were barred from the area. Carcieri said the families thanked the media for respecting their privacy and various federal, state, local and private agencies for offering them help and support after the disaster

Officials put black fabric over chain-link fences around the club to shield family members from spectators and the media.

Carcieri announced that the official death toll had risen to 97 because a body had been found during a search of the building but excluded from the original total.

Carcieri said 42 victims had been identified. He said forensic teams were working around the clock and that he hoped all of the victims would be identified by Monday.

"My whole focus right now is to get the identifications completed as soon as possible so those families can find closure."

Great White guitarist reported among dead

One of the inferno's victims apparently was Great White guitarist Ty Longley. A statement on the band's Web site Sunday said Longley has been identified as one of the 97 who died.

Eighty people remain in hospitals, Carcieri said.

Carcieri announced that the state had introduced a moratorium on the use of pyrotechnics at clubs of similar size, which would be inspected by fire marshals in the near future.

Carcieri said an interfaith memorial service would be held at a church Monday at 5 p.m. EST, and a vigil at the West Warwick Civic Center is planned for 6 p.m.

Dispute over permission

The question of who authorized Great White to use the pyrotechnics is in dispute. The band said it had permission from the club's owner. The owner said he had no advance knowledge of the devices.

Speaking at a news conference Saturday evening, club owner Jeffrey Derderian said the disaster "will haunt my family and I for the rest of our lives."

He insisted that club management did not give permission for Great White to use pyrotechnics onstage, which started the fire.

Derderian sobbed as he described the devastation his family felt in the wake of this "horrific human tragedy."

"This tragedy has claimed the lives of our friends," Derderian said. "Even though I tried as hard as I could, many people didn't make it out, and that is a horror that will haunt my family and I for the rest of our lives."

Derderian said Great White, known for the hit song "Once Bitten, Twice Shy," never requested permission either from him or his partner and brother, Michael, to use pyrotechnics.

"No permission was ever requested by the band or any of its agents to use pyrotechnics at The Station, and no permission was ever given," he said.

But Ed McPherson, an attorney for the '80s heavy metal band, disputed that.

"There where very specific conversations between the tour manager and one of the club owners about the special effects being used," McPherson said.

"The club owner gave them permission to use it. The other club owner, who I understand is his brother, was actually there while they were setting it up.

"And now they are saying that they didn't have any prior knowledge of it and had no idea that they were going to do this."

Operators of two other clubs where Great White played recently told CNN that the band had used pyrotechnics without permission. Other clubs where the band played said it did not use them.

Newspapers in Boston, Massachusetts, reported Sunday that several other bands said they had played at the West Warwick club and had gotten verbal permission to use pyrotechnics.

Band says pyrotechnics used 'all the time' at club

Members of a former rock group that played at The Station said Sunday they used pyrotechnics "all the time" at the club, and no one ever told them to stop.

"You're supposed to have a licensed pyrotechnician -- we knew that," said David "Kry" Vaccaro, lead singer of the band Lovin' Kry. "You're supposed to get a permit -- I guess the club is supposed to pull a permit when they're going to do pyro. But the law was never enforced, so nobody ever cared."

Even after the Derderians took ownership of the club a couple of years ago, Vaccaro said, club owners always knew full well his band would use pyrotechnic devices on stage. Employees at the door even asked the band eagerly whether they would impress them that night with a fiery show, putting their thumbs up, Vaccaro said.

"And that's kind of the way it is at all clubs, from here to California -- nothing was different," he said.

Vaccaro said his bandmates are not taking sides. They only want to inform the public that bands and clubs constantly break the law simply because regulations, like those dealing with pyrotechnics, are not enforced.

"Now all of a sudden it's a very strict law," he told CNN. "Well, they should have made it a strict law long before this happened."

State attorney general to investigate

Great White had just started playing when the fire broke out about 11 p.m. Thursday. West Warwick Fire Chief Charlie Hall said fire engulfed the wooden building in less than three minutes.

Rhode Island Attorney General Patrick Lynch said his office will investigate to determine where the responsibility lies.

"I, of course, am focused particularly to see whether or not criminal charges are appropriate," Lynch told "CNN Sunday Night." "I believe that the Derderians would ... appreciate the opportunity to help us all get to the bottom of this and answer some questions that are outstanding."

The band has been cooperative with authorities, Lynch said, but Jeffrey Derderian has only spoken with them once, just after the fire. Lynch said he hoped Derderian and his brother would answer more questions.

It was the second fatal incident at a U.S. club in recent days. Twenty-one people died Monday and more than 50 were injured in a nightclub stampede in Chicago, Illinois, that apparently began when a security guard used pepper spray to break up a fight. (Full story)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/24/deadly.nightclub.fire/index.html
 
At least somebody is finally coming to the bands defense, by saying and showing photographic proof that pyrotechnics had been used by other bands at this club in the past.

As usual, when something goes wrong, the "verbal permission" evaporates and people point at the written contract.

A lot of stuff went wrong, on all sides, it happens and laws usually get enforced after the fact.

But just watching the tape, where are the fire extinguishers -- even without pyro, the lights and equipment pose fire hazards. So you'd expect some dry chemical fire extinguishers to be handy near the stage. But alas they are a PIA and you trip over them for years until you need them.

Though I can see fire code updated for stage shows to include mandatory bottles near and on the stages in the future. And I can almost hear in the future, the in case of emergency the fire exits are located...
 
RI is observing a day of prayer.

Issues of liability an accountablity. According to legal specialists the band Great White and the owners of The Station rock club could face civil and possibly criminal liability. Negligence and no permission are at issue.

Both the band and the club probably will face millions of dollars in wrongfull death lawsuits also. Others could face lawsuits also, such as promoters and contractors.

"Even if the Dedarians prove that they weren't told about the fireworkds beforehand, lawyers said, they still face corporate liability for negligence." Boston Globe "Even if you didn't tell (the band) that it was OK, this activity happened on your watch," said David Herlihy, a Newton, MA attorney and musician who specializes in entertainmenty and music industry law. "It's not necesssary to prove that you knew."
 
Originally posted by wdlove
RI is observing a day of prayer.

This really is a sad moment and the families that have lost loved ones really do need our prayers. I am glad that the state set a day aside but is something we should pray for reguardless.

I really hope that other public businesses will take a hard look at thier fire prevention/fighting equipment/escapes and make an honest risk assessment. The fire in CT the other night just shows we need to look at this on an individual basis.
 
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