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970 for Mac != fact

64bit compatibility seems worthy of something more than a minor revision change (numbering scheme). In other words, 10.2.x -> 10.3.x shouldn't be for 64bit, IMO. Unless it is something that has been built in all along... *shrug*

64bit support in Panther doesn't mean anything as far as which processor family will be used. PPC 64bit is PPC 64bit. Altivec could just easily be for native 32bit support.

G4 currently "uses" up to a 167MHz bus. This can't maintain OS X now. Video / Audio editing require bandwidth with low latencies. Dual proc and Altivec aware code will only go so far, as is now being shown.

WWDC is a developer conference. It is not normally a place to announce new hardware. That is why 10.3 announcement makes sense to me, but 970 does not. Maybe we will get a "64bit future" type of announcement, but I would truly be shocked by a 970 announcement with shipment schedule.

Given recent shipments in comparison to announcements... does it really matter much when the thing is announced?

Year of the laptop, and the flagship machine at the beginning of the year still has not been moved to the new configuration??? :rolleyes:

G4's can get faster, with better (smaller) manufacturing process.

You're right. IBM does have a history of publicly announcing a project, spending a ton of time and resources on said project, just to scrap it and "develop something else instead".
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Ever heard of Lexmark. You know, the $5 billion business that IBM sold off because they did not see a future in printers. Developing the PC standard, only to let everyone else make more money at it then they did (instead focusing on traditional mainframe business).

Yeah, SJ is quite hated. That recently posted, measly 90+% CEO approval rating in Forbes and his 80+% approval rating by Apple's shareholders are clear indications of his inability to manage and produce.
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Inability to produce is shown in market share change (down), as well as number of units shipped (down). That, and proving for me that the press is happier with SJ than his own shareholders is interesting. Only recent significant rise in company value is from music store. http://quote.money.cnn.com/quote/quote?symbols=AAPL&gt=5yr Which everyone knows that the music industry will take over again, at some point. http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/12/news/companies/aol_bertelsmann.reut/

Maybe SJ should lighten up. We need a big "softie" puppeted figurehead to run Apple at this critical point when we are waging all out war on Microsoft.
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All out war? Who are you kidding?! The "war" was lost when Windows 95 came out. Linux poses more of a threat to Microsoft right now than Apple does. If you don't understand this, then think about where Microsoft is moving into (servers), and where Linux is best (servers).

As for Moto's decision to kill the G5, if it was in "retaliation" for killing the clone licensing in the mid-late 90's, then it will make it all that much sweeter to sue the crap out of them for breach of contract.

I'm glad that the clone licenses were cancelled anyways, as I saw that as a bad move on Apple's part that would have led us down the path of Windows computers for lack of quality control.
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Who killed that revenue stream for Apple again? Oh yeah, that's right... SJ did. Oops. Apple doesn't really want to make money for a living or anything. That is the only real reason to be in business, to make your shareholders money. If it was for noble purposes, they would be a charity.
 
Re: 970 for Mac != fact

Originally posted by yzedf
I may be silly reminding the rumor hungry horde ;)

But the 970 is nothing more than a wish / hope / dream right now. Nothing has been announced by IBM, or Apple, stating that the 970 is destined for the Macintosh.

Sorry to be a thrill kill...

How many of us "knew" that the G5 was coming, and that it would slay Intel / AMD ?
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Yes, but why would IBM have a version of Altivec on the chips when they don't use any programs that are enhanced for it? It is pretty much a fact it is coming. The when is up in the air, although I know Apple has had chips delivered to them because of contacts @ IBM. Feel free to be pessimistic and ignore facts, but Altivec is the surest sign publically released that its coming. Besides, if it doesn't, the Macs will die off within the next few years because Moto is not doing anything new.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
Okay okay. Everyone is taking this way way too personal. I am not and no one else here is attacking you personally. We are just trying to pull a few of the extremists back to reality. Just calm down it's a silly friggin rumor and by some of us saying that there is still that chance that it will not pan out you people are acting like we just pissed on your mothers heads or something.:rolleyes:
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my point was that you aren't pulling any one back to reality. Everyone is fully aware its not a for sure thing, but if you really believe its not going to happen, then I think you aren't paying attention. Frankly I think its rather self righteous to stand up and say "hey, you are all talking about things you don't know for sure are going to happen". I mean, duh! welcome to a rumor site. There is absolutley no purpose for such a thread in my opinion. thats all I was trying to get across.

And anyone who thinks the 970 could just going to be canceled because the G5 was isn't paying attention either. for the 970 to be canceled would be a huge problem for IBM. They've already announced products that will use it, they've shown it. Its in production, the G5 never made it that far. its a totally different scenario. The 970 exists, it will be coming out soon, and everyone in the industry thinks apple will make use of it. Its the strongest and most substantiated rumor I've ever seen.

Whatever. This thread is taking up way too much time.
 
hey macbandit apple isnt talking, ibm almost talked, and the 970 has the exact altivec engine. Yes there are rumors everywhere but the fishkill cpu plant was just built by ibm and is known to be producing the 970 as we speek. It will also be building the newest gpu's for nvidea. Just Happens Apple has a big need for all this stuff.
 
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
hey macbandit apple isnt talking, ibm almost talked, and the 970 has the exact altivec engine. Yes there are rumors everywhere but the fishkill cpu plant was just built by ibm and is known to be producing the 970 as we speek. It will also be building the newest gpu's for nvidea. Just Happens Apple has a big need for all this stuff.
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The GPU production probably has something to do with the fact that NVidia and MS are friends again. All new Media center PCs will have an NVidia GPUs.
 
>>All out war? Who are you kidding?! The "war" was lost when Windows 95 came out. Linux poses more of a threat to Microsoft right now than Apple does. If you don't understand this, then think about where Microsoft is moving into (servers), and where Linux is best (servers).<<

The war is ongoing. Apple and MS are always at war. MS is always going to take Apple seriously until it exists no more. MS knows that if Apple ever changed their business model and actually "finished" their innovations, they could make a charge at a flank.

MS knows what Apple offers that has actually lured some switchers, not a lot, but some. MS has no intention on letting a small leak grow into a huge one. They are going to war with Apple with Longhorn and any hardware developers that want to jump on board.
 
Originally posted by strider42
my point was that you aren't pulling any one back to reality. Everyone is fully aware its not a for sure thing, but if you really believe its not going to happen, then I think you aren't paying attention. Frankly I think its rather self righteous to stand up and say "hey, you are all talking about things you don't know for sure are going to happen". I mean, duh! welcome to a rumor site. There is absolutley no purpose for such a thread in my opinion. thats all I was trying to get across.

And anyone who thinks the 970 could just going to be canceled because the G5 was isn't paying attention either. for the 970 to be canceled would be a huge problem for IBM. They've already announced products that will use it, they've shown it. Its in production, the G5 never made it that far. its a totally different scenario. The 970 exists, it will be coming out soon, and everyone in the industry thinks apple will make use of it. Its the strongest and most substantiated rumor I've ever seen.

Whatever. This thread is taking up way too much time.
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I have never once said that it's not going to happen I've just said there is no conclusive evidence that it will. Yes, there are some people that come into these forums as total novices and also very gullible and believe every word of it. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't make everyone like you. Also I too find it highly unlikely they would ever cancel the 970. Although just because they are going to make it and just because it has an integer processing unit (they cannot call it Altivec so you can't say that it is or that they have) doesn't mean it is a guaranteed processor for Apple. While I agree it is highly likely and I have agreed all along it still doesn't make it a 100% sure thing.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
I have never once said that it's not going to happen I've just said there is no conclusive evidence that it will. Yes, there are some people that come into these forums as total novices and also very gullible and believe every word of it. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't make everyone like you. Also I too find it highly unlikely they would ever cancel the 970. Although just because they are going to make it and just because it has an integer processing unit (they cannot call it Altivec so you can't say that it is or that they have) doesn't mean it is a guaranteed processor for Apple. While I agree it is highly likely and I have agreed all along it still doesn't make it a 100% sure thing.
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Exactly.

IBM and Motorola both own rights to the technoloy, but Motorola owns the "Altivec" name. That is what the AIM project was (Apple-IBM-Motorola).
 
Originally posted by yzedf
Exactly.

IBM and Motorola both own rights to the technoloy, but Motorola owns the "Altivec" name. That is what the AIM project was (Apple-IBM-Motorola).
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This brings something else up that I have considerd. Now this was a year or more ago but Apple actually took a lot of the chip design in house from Motorola. If this was the case then there is no way we would no which route they are going since Apple is in no way open about there hardware development in the way that chip manufacturors are.

I'm just pointing this out as another possibility not as proof that the 970 isn't the most likely option. I'm getting tired of explaining that I am not trying to say that the 970 isn't the most likely I'm just trying to be the voice of reason saying that there is that chance though it's slim that it isn't the one and only option.
 
Am I wrong to think...

That IBM would not be developing and producing the PPC 970 if there wasn't an immediate customer for it!

The fact that they mention Apple in the 970 pdf, and the employment of Altivec could either mean that Apple is going to use it or that Apple may be interested, thus pushing their case to sell the product.

Do you really think that Apple is in a position to pass on this chip, unless they have something better to revive Powermac sales SOON!

I think that if it is not this PPC 970, it better be a more powerful alternative. Either way, it will be better that being stuck at 1.42 G4.

my 2 cents
 
Re: Am I wrong to think...

Originally posted by MacAficionado
That IBM would not be developing and producing the PPC 970 if there wasn't an immediate customer for it!

The fact that they mention Apple in the 970 pdf, and the employment of Altivec could either mean that Apple is going to use it or that Apple may be interested, thus pushing their case to sell the product.

Do you really think that Apple is in a position to pass on this chip, unless they have something better to revive Powermac sales SOON!

I think that if it is not this PPC 970, it better be a more powerful alternative. Either way, it will be better that being stuck at 1.42 G4.

my 2 cents
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No I am in now way saying that Apple will pass on this chip or is even in a position to I'm just saying there could be options that we can not see as industry outsiders. Also IBM could have buyers that haven't been thought of.
 
I am 90% Certian that the PPC 970 will eventually be the CPU in Apple's machines.

I am also still hoping that it will turn out to be the AMD Opteron. Call me a sucker for the under dog (Ya I root for the Cubs).

Here is some things I've picked up in the past year that keep my hopes alive.

-In the begining of RISC v. CISC, they couldn't be further apart in terms of processing philosophy. However in present day, they have both taken from each other to the point they are nearly indistinguisable from each other.

-Intel has built up from CISC processors, and continues to this day.

-AMD until the end of the K6 series, was a pure CISC processor. As of the Athlon, the core of their CPU is RISC, with an x86 emulater on the front end.

-AMD and IBM are now nearly married. AMD is still independently producing processors out of Dresden, Germany, and IBM is still producing out of Fishkill, among other I assume. However together they have one processor R&D team. AMD and IBM are co-producing the Opteron 90 nm SOI version.

-I read recently (I think it was http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9544) that it took 2 Days to port IBMs DB2 to the Opteron, and 1 programmer, 1 Week to port Unreal 2003 to do the same. This bodes well for porting Apple to the same processor (I think).

-I read (also at the .Inquire) that the power disipation of the Opteron and Athlon64 is very low. Low enough to not really need the fan on the CPU heatsink. For some reason they are keeping a tight lid on the exact info.

-The Underdog in me would just love to see Apple and AMD take on Microsoft and Intel.


Things I am not clear on(perhaps someone can elighten me).

-What distinguishes a PPC from x86, CISC, RISC?

-How easy or hard it would be to produce a propriatory AMD Opteron/Athlon64 chipset, and remove the x86 emulation for use in a Mac.



Now, like I said, I am still 90% sure the PPC 970 will be the next Apple CPU, but the Cub Fan in me is still hopefull for the AMD-Apple solution. Besides, Apple already uses an AMD solution here.
 
This is why Apple is targeted for failing to deliver all the time. Sure, they have some serious chip issues, but no matter what they do the rumors have everyone expecting more.

Dan
 
Originally posted by alset
This is why Apple is targeted for failing to deliver all the time. Sure, they have some serious chip issues, but no matter what they do the rumors have everyone expecting more.

Dan
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IMO it is for coming out with world beating product (G3 and G4 intro) and then sitting on their collective laurels for too long.

Maybe M$ plan for DRM and "trusted computing" will give a boost to Apple in the next few years?
 
Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
/agree with strider, 970 is not just a rumor its fact. The rumors as to when it comes out are the ones to watch, nobody knows when it will be released. I see no reason why apple would not go forward and step into the 21st century with a new chip insted of using a 4 year old one.
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Because at one point, I believe it was last year that Steve Jobs said that the G4 still had a lot of life left in it.

Personally I don't believe the 970 was meant for anthing more than IBM's own blade servers and Linux workstations but I could be wrong. It seems if Apple was planning such a change that they would embrace the opportunity to let everyone know as when they originally moved to the PowerPC architecture. However, a lot of people and the meda are expecting 970's. I just hope Steve has his bodyguards on the ready if he doesn't announce this soon.
 
sedarby i think you are wrong, and if steve and the gang dont announce something soon sales will hit rock bottom,be it a g5,a 970 a AMD or my grannys old sock- bottom line the G4 is and has been stagnate. Mine has been very good to me but 2yrs ago a 733 was base now its only 1gig. in the Intel world the increase was 3x. Apple is crying for a 970 and ibm is wanting to sell chips. Same goes for nvidea they want video chips for pc's and macs. My suggestion is for apple and nvidea to move next door to the IBM fishkill plant and then make screaming computers with videocards that blow away everyone else.( All in one Machine named apple that is)
 
My 2 cents:

Apple has been falling behind (speedwise, that is) to PC hardware ever since Motorola's G4 was stuck @ 500 Mhz (18 f***ing months!!!).
We, the rumor-readers and other Apple-enthousiasts, are fed-up with this fact, and see this PPC 970 as the light at the end of the tunnel.
Why?
1) It's a PPC
2) It has an SIMD unit (Altivec)
3) Apple was "mentioned" by IBM (not sure of this, but people have seen this on the pdf)
4) 64 bits (a first in consumer OS, gotta be Apple first)
5) It's fast!
6) WHAT THE CRAP ELSE CAN IT BE?

Most of us are against the Marklar project, forseeing Apple hardware sales drop, and no developers writing software for another x86 OS... and so on.
We also want to keep the PPC and want to COMPETE with x86, instead of joining 'em.
And above all:
Motorola have stated that there will be no "G5" for computers. There is no alternative.
 
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
My 2 cents:

Apple has been falling behind (speedwise, that is) to PC hardware ever since Motorola's G4 was stuck @ 500 Mhz (18 f***ing months!!!).
We, the rumor-readers and other Apple-enthousiasts, are fed-up with this fact, and see this PPC 970 as the light at the end of the tunnel.
Why?
1) It's a PPC
2) It has an SIMD unit (Altivec)
3) Apple was "mentioned" by IBM (not sure of this, but people have seen this on the pdf)
4) 64 bits (a first in consumer OS, gotta be Apple first)
5) It's fast!
6) WHAT THE CRAP ELSE CAN IT BE?

Most of us are against the Marklar project, forseeing Apple hardware sales drop, and no developers writing software for another x86 OS... and so on.
We also want to keep the PPC and want to COMPETE with x86, instead of joining 'em.
And above all:
Motorola have stated that there will be no "G5" for computers. There is no alternative.
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Well stated and I agree to all of that expect the very last line. How do you know that there are no alternatives? Do you work for Apple?
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well stated and I agree to all of that expect the very last line. How do you know that there are no alternatives? Do you work for Apple?
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I mean: no "obvious" alternatives. If there were "another" PPC out there, we would have heard about it by now, wouldn't we? x86 is not obvious.
The only "other" highly secret possiblity is an Apple-made cpu ????
 
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
I mean: no "obvious" alternatives. If there were "another" PPC out there, we would have heard about it by now, wouldn't we? x86 is not obvious.
The only "other" highly secret possiblity is an Apple-made cpu ????
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Well it wouldn't be Apple made but it could certainly be co-designed. Like I have said I agree that the 970 is the most likely candidate but I don't agree that it is a sure thing. With Apple anything is possible and it's all a bunch of rumours blowing in the wind.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well it wouldn't be Apple made but it could certainly be co-designed. Like I have said I agree that the 970 is the most likely candidate but I don't agree that it is a sure thing. With Apple anything is possible and it's all a bunch of rumours blowing in the wind.
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That's true.
That's why we love the rumor-sites. :D
 
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