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970MP - Still Coming?

Man, with all the Powerbook woes going around here lately, I got into thinking that my 1.67 15incher was puny compared to the x86 offerings. Then I went to Best Buy for a new ink cartridge and this absolutely GINORMINOUS Toshiba catches my eye. It's got half a billion buttons, is about an inch and a half thick, and is ugly as sin. I take in a deep breath, brace myself for the impact when I see how this thing's cpu will trounce my baby's, and lo and behold: 1.8 ghz. I just started laughing. There's no way that .13 extra ghz is gonna make Winbloze better than my in-the-mail Tiger right now. Oh, and it was also more expensive. So I hereby ban this board from ever complaining about Powerbooks again.

Now if there was only a way to plug this thing into an xbox 2 and leech its power for rendering...
 
Hector said:
you bought a dual 2GHz opteron just for folding :eek: any chance of giveing it to me? , i'll pay for the electricity bill and i'll let it fold 24/7, honest.
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No, I bought it for some open source projects I want to pursue, but the code revisions I want to start from aren't out, yet, so I was just trying to put it to good use. Given I barely noticed the electric bill increase when I cranked up the G5 last September, I was flabbergasted when I saw the bill with the Opteron running full blast.
 
Whoah there people...

Hey, why does this have to turn into a bashing war??? I have been a Mac user my entire life! This is going to be a temporary purchase until Apple brings out something sweet in their PowerBooks. Once that happens, I will drop that Dell in a heartbeat! Plus, by then, Tiger will have a few updates under its belt (hopefully with hardware Core Image enabled by default), and I will be happily back to my beloved Apple. Geez...

Anyways, let me just go configure a 17" edu PB with close specs and accessories... Hmmm... Oh wait... With slightly LESS, it STILL comes out to $3,689.95, WITHOUT tax OR shipping included... A shorter warranty too. And crappier specs at that. And no I don't want to mess with aftermarket RAM. SO, in short, the current PB's are NOT worth the money. As much as I love Mac OS X and Apple, I cannot justify spending that much on old obsolete hardware! Don't worry everyone, I can't wait for new ones to come out, be it dual-core G4's or some variant of the 970GX, I WANT IT!!!

Also, owning my own PC will just give me more ammo for my side of the Apple argument! I'll let everyone know my experiences with this behemoth, and how much I want Mac OS X back, and let everyone poke fun at me and point fingers then. But please do not rip on me because I made this choice now. It will be better for me on the long run! All I ask is for some support and faith :) Thanks again! -JB

(Edit: Also, in regards to the flames about 64-bit, just check out the 64-bit patch for Far Cry. Not only is it about 7% faster than the 32-bit version, it is more detailed and has better view distance and more options. Little things like that are going to become more and more frequent, and would be nice to be compatible with.)
 
ShnikeJSB said:
Hey, why does this have to turn into a bashing war??? I have been a Mac user my entire life! This is going to be a temporary purchase until Apple brings out something sweet in their PowerBooks. Once that happens, I will drop that Dell in a heartbeat! Plus, by then, Tiger will have a few updates under its belt (hopefully with hardware Core Image enabled by default), and I will be happily back to my beloved Apple. Geez...
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I can't say I haven't thought about it recently, so I can't totally blame you. I was checking out the alienware athlons the other day, and they look pretty fast and good. Every time I render anything with Swift 3D on my PC (Athlon 2000+) and it is faster than my G5, I remember how truly slow my 1.6 is.

I just can't go back to Windows. I remember I had to use it at work for a while and Dreamweaver would go down at least three times a day, and there were just some things I couldn't do. I had a particularly big site, and every time it would refresh its cache it would die. This was on a Dell Dual Xeon workstation which was at the time (last year) their flagship computer. I guess Apple knows how bad Windows sucks so they can get away with not really putting money into the hardware and maximizing their profit margin. We've got about another 17 months until Longhorn comes out, so I guess Apple isn't feeling any real pressure.

Just make sure you dump that machine when the Quad top 3 GHz comes out :)
 
now when everyone here is saying pc are we making the generalazation that it runs windows? i have a couple PC's that i love. they run QNX, SkyOS, BeOS, Syllable, Sollaris, and yes windows. the PC is not bad jsut different. MAC and PC have there strengths and weeknesses but to say one is better than the other is a hard sale. to say one OS is better than another is reletivly easy assuming the OS's is aimed at the same market (you could not compare QNX and windows in which is the better desktop OS....QNX is not intended for that....though thats how I use it for the most part....its soooooo fast.) to say OSX is better than windows can be proven. but i dont want to take sides :p
 
970MP??

Wow, I try and keep up with this thread as my life is really busy (I can't wait for a new G5), and I just read two pages of total Dell laptop bullsh*t. So, is the 970MP thread burnt out>??? Next time I read I'll check the middle of page 10. =(
 
FlyNolJ said:
Wow, I try and keep up with this thread as my life is really busy (I can't wait for a new G5), and I just read two pages of total Dell laptop bullsh*t. So, is the 970MP thread burnt out>??? Next time I read I'll check the middle of page 10. =(
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These threads seem to attract trolls.
 
FlyNolJ said:
So, is the 970MP thread burnt out>??? Next time I read I'll check the middle of page 10. =(
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In my mother language we say: "Do not talk about un-laid eggs".
This MP-egg is not even in the hen, so until 2006 we have more than enough time to speculate :)

Kaborka
 
Cold_Steel said:
Check this article out.


http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=11577


Matt
Click to expand...
I find it slightly funny and absurd that Steve Jobs would promise the G5 would hit 3 Ghz, only to be surpassed by the arch enemy in a surprising move. Granted, the XBox PPC is different from that of the G5, but it's all about PPC bragging rights at this point. Bill Gates must be having a hearty laugh right about now.
 
Lacero said:
I find it slightly funny and absurd that Steve Jobs would promise the G5 would hit 3 Ghz, only to be surpassed by the arch enemy in a surprising move. Granted, the XBox PPC is different from that of the G5, but it's all about PPC bragging rights at this point. Bill Gates must be having a hearty laugh right about now.
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Although Jobs 3GHZ blunder has been a marketing embarassment it wasnt the end of the world as we can see that not only IBM had difficulties upping the clock speed but so did Intel and AMD... Thats why they all moved to dual core designs...

And I dont agree with you that its all about PPC bragging rights because the processor XBOX 360 will be using is not a regular computer processor, its a custom chip designed with gaming in mind and nothing else (stripped down version) so in simple terms it was easier to clock it higher as the design of it wasn't as demanding...

And Bill Gates can laugh all he wants, he better pray that Apple won't develop OS X x86 version... Microsoft got big because of Windows 95, I give them credit for that because every computer needs an OS BUT except that they pretty much haven't been innovative and all the stuff they done was a ripped off copy of something or by using the Windows money they just purchased entire software houses...
 
blitzkrieg79 said:
And Bill Gates can laugh all he wants, he better pray that Apple won't develop OS X x86 version... Microsoft got big because of Windows 95, I give them credit for that because every computer needs an OS BUT except that they pretty much haven't been innovative and all the stuff they done was a ripped off copy of something or by using the Windows money they just purchased entire software houses...
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I know that the G5 is 64 bit, along with compatibility of X, just not at full use yet. This is the first that I have heard x86 mentioned, could you explain this concept?
 
wdlove said:
I know that the G5 is 64 bit, along with compatibility of X, just not at full use yet. This is the first that I have heard x86 mentioned, could you explain this concept?
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Oh sorry, I wasn't being clear I guess... What I meant was that Microsoft better pray that Apple won't become JUST a software company where they would concentrate on developing software (Mac OS X included) mainly for the x86 platform...

As I remember, Microsoft was a big company before the release of Windows 95 but they weren't HUGE as they are right now, and eversince the release of Windows 95 I get a feeling that Microsoft doesnt innovate anymore but copies and buys companies out...
 
no, your right

deputy_doofy said:
Funny, they mention that the problem was going to 65 nanometers. Um, as far as I know, everybody had trouble going to 90 nanometers. Did we get to the 65 nanometer mark (and I slept through it)?
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the article was probably written by a manager :)

they don't know what they're talking about.
 
Remind me, do the Intel and AMD Dual Core offerings have SMT, or whatever they want to call it? If so, I would think that would make IBM look behind the times if their dual core offering for PowerMacs did not have it.
 
you mean SMP as in dual processors? or SMT as in semetric multiple threading as in one cpu splitting itself to appear as two to allow many threads using more of the cpu.

if the former only the pentium extreme edition has SMT if the latter then only the opteron has SMP.
 
DavidCar said:
Remind me, do the Intel and AMD Dual Core offerings have SMT, or whatever they want to call it? If so, I would think that would make IBM look behind the times if their dual core offering for PowerMacs did not have it.
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the dual core Intel chips DO support SMT. They appear to be Quad processor systems with SMT enabled. Intel's SMT implementation is a bit lack luster though. Intel's SMT actually makes the cpu run slower when the code is not multi-threaded. Many of the benchmark suites run faster with SMT off. In general use, Intel's SMT will net you a -10 to +15% difference in performance. IBM's SMT implementation in the Power5 is supposed to be much more robust. I've heard claims that Power5 SMT was yielding up to 35% increases in performance but that was during product design. I haven't seen benchmarks on production servers to consider that number speculative.

AMD does not currently implement SMT on any of their processors nor have I seen SMT on any of their road maps. AMD chips aren't particularly well suited to SMT anyway. SMT runs best on processors that have a fairly long instruction pipe and processors that are 'wide' in design. By wide, I mean they have a large number of execution units.. several integer units, several FP...

The most interesting news on SMT for Mac users recently has been that both the Cell processor in the Playstation3 and the PowerPC in the XBox360 support SMT. I'm already having dreams of dual dual-core Powermac towers with SMT. To the OS it would look like an 8 processor system. Geek-tastic.
 
ShnikeJSB said:
Hey, why does this have to turn into a bashing war??? I have been a Mac user my entire life! ...Anyways, let me just go configure a 17" edu PB with close specs and accessories... Hmmm... Oh wait... With slightly LESS, it STILL comes out to $3,689.95, WITHOUT tax OR shipping included... A shorter warranty too. And crappier specs at that. And no I don't want to mess with aftermarket RAM. SO, in short, the current PB's are NOT worth the money.
Click to expand...

I think it turned into a bashing war because you decided to start bashing Apple's machines in a thread on the possibility of a dual core PPC 970 variant.
Now back to your specific claims...
That's funny. I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you qualify for EDU pricing.. maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe your education institution is getting screwed by Apple.
When I log into the Apple store and select personal purchase, a standard config PowerBook 17" runs $2,399 right now. That's 512MB RAM, 100GB disk, Bluetooth, and a Radeon 9700M 128MB video subsystem. If you go to 1GB with 2 DIMMs from Apple it rockets up to $2534.00. (non-edu is $2,699.00 base) I'm not sure why you don't want to mess with aftermarket memory though, I got 1GB of Micron for about the same price and a child can upgrade memory in a powerbook. Should we look to the technical analytical skills of someone making Price arguments who won't deal with aftermarket memory? So far, I'm very very happy with my Powerbook and I'd recommend it to anyone.

Basically you can make valid arguments for a P-M laptop over a Powerbook but it's hard to take your arguments seriously when your numbers are crap.
In your case, Price is not one of those arguments. CPU performance is, but most people don't buy laptops to get the power of a desktop.. they get them because they can use them on their lap. A powerbook is in a different category than a Dell XPS Gen2 though (I believe that's what you have). Personaly I wouldn't mind one since my PCs are basically just WinTendos.. but I'd like my laptop to weigh less than 8.6lbs (minimum for an XPS Gen2).

Quick note to another poster.. the P-M is a very efficient processor. You can't compare MHz to MHz in a G4 to a P-M. A 2 GHz P-M is a faster processor than a 1.67GHz G4 and it's faster by a health margin. My only complaint of P-M performance is the noticeable lag between it's low-power throttled speed and it's full clock speed. When it's running efficiently, the machine balks at intensive tasks until the processor speeds up. I find it very annoying. If you run full speed all the time, the P-M heat disipation and power consumption numbers don't look very good at all. The higher clocked chips run in the upper 60s [w] and go up from there.
 
Hector said:
you mean SMP as in dual processors? or SMT as in semetric multiple processors as in more than one physical cpu's on a motherboard in multiple slots.

if the former only the pentium extreme edition has SMT if the latter then only the opteron has SMP.
Click to expand...


what you worte about SMT reads the same as SMP (dual processors)???

SMP = dual processors ( Xeons + Opterons)

SMT = (also known as Hyperthreading) is one cpu (for example the P4 HT) which has one physical core and one logical core.

Wasnt correcting you at all mate, just got confused with what you wrote. lol

Matt
 
yeah rereading what i said was fun i'll edit it, SMT is hyperthreading and is only enabled on the extreme edition dual core pentium.
 
ffakr said:
The most interesting news on SMT for Mac users recently has been that both the Cell processor in the Playstation3 and the PowerPC in the XBox360 support SMT. I'm already having dreams of dual dual-core Powermac towers with SMT. To the OS it would look like an 8 processor system. Geek-tastic.
Click to expand...

So what are the chances of a dual x dual x dual (8) with two 970MP? The argument against it is that the chip has the wrong genealogy, descending from the Power4 rather than a Power5. (Are we sure?) But changes in the OS noted in this thread refer to "logical" processors. Does anyone call a second core a "logical" processor rather than a real processor? A second core is a physical processor, even if it is on the same chip. So wouldn't "logical" necessarily imply SMT? If it is not in a 970MP, I would think it would be a long wait for another processor that does have SMT.

If your 8 processor dream comes true, I would be happy with a single chip 4 "processor" version.
 
rumors

DavidCar said:
So what are the chances of a dual x dual x dual (8) with two 970MP? The argument against it is that the chip has the wrong genealogy, descending from the Power4 rather than a Power5. (Are we sure?) But changes in the OS noted in this thread refer to "logical" processors. Does anyone call a second core a "logical" processor rather than a real processor? A second core is a physical processor, even if it is on the same chip. So wouldn't "logical" necessarily imply SMT? If it is not in a 970MP, I would think it would be a long wait for another processor that does have SMT.

If your 8 processor dream comes true, I would be happy with a single chip 4 "processor" version.
Click to expand...
A 4 processors working-station at the WWDC..;
still not clear if it will sport single or dualcore processors.
 
DavidCar said:
So what are the chances of a dual x dual x dual (8) with two 970MP? The argument against it is that the chip has the wrong genealogy, descending from the Power4 rather than a Power5. (Are we sure?) But changes in the OS noted in this thread refer to "logical" processors. Does anyone call a second core a "logical" processor rather than a real processor? A second core is a physical processor, even if it is on the same chip. So wouldn't "logical" necessarily imply SMT? If it is not in a 970MP, I would think it would be a long wait for another processor that does have SMT.

If your 8 processor dream comes true, I would be happy with a single chip 4 "processor" version.
Click to expand...
It seems like Apple included the logical terminology being used by IBM.

Right now that is the Power5-Lite/GR-UL which we really have not heard too much about -- beyond guessing it'll be similar to the Power4 conversion. 1 core with a Altivec compatible core tacked on.

People were hoping for the VMX2 core and a Integrated Memory Controller, but neither is definite in the rumors yet -- since all the rumors are still focused on the PPC970 variants.

The GR-UL is supposed to include some process changes that should make it run cooler than a PPC970GX -- especially if it includes the Power5's dynamic Power/Thermal management -- it may come close to a dual core PPC970 in performance (ballpark at least**)

Apple has quite a few choices... we should know which soon.

But a GR-UL would be an unexpected turn.

** Edit: Make that ballpark with more MHz in a single core unit -- of course if it came in as the dual core.... :cool:
 
In my humble opinion I think that we are gonna see a variant of the PPC970 with:

-Dual-Core (soon to be followed with dual dual-core Xstations)

-Integrated memory controller (a must have really - its one of the tings that gives the AMD 64s an advantage of Intel chips)

-A new cooling feature (this will then follow on into a 'G5' variant PowerBook in early to mid 2006)


Matt
 
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