9to5mac say the iPad does have flash!


wolfpackfan

macrumors 68000
Jun 10, 2007
1,546
16
Cary, NC
Well im no expert in web stuff but couldnt that just be an alt tag thingy? i.e. if you dont have flash heres a nice image instead?
Except the demos from the presentation didn't have the flash images. They had the little missing flash icon. The fellow on the Apple video might be using 4.0 which might have flash.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,752
311
http://www.9to5mac.com/apple-flash-ipad-3954934055

Looks like the iPad may have an unrevealed secret. Perhaps it will come with OS 4.0?
Well it's the only way that the whole "OMG best surfing xperience evvuuurr!" gloating would make sense. Hate or love Flash, it's a staple of web content and it's not going away anytime soon, any more than the MP3 format has, despite the fact that we've had superior formats for 10 years. If you think something with a comically large market share is going to pop like a balloon as soon as something better comes along, you might wanna check out this thing called Windows.

Flash support may be a bitter pill to swallow for Apple, but there's just no way around it and there won't be for many years to come.
 

Sketh

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2007
256
0
If you think something with a comically large market share is going to pop like a balloon as soon as something better comes along, you might wanna check out this thing called Windows.

Ahhh zing.

Feels good, doesn't it.


As for the Flash, I would assume, in time, they'll add it in. Everyone just needs to chill out, because if apple is going to implement flash, they're going to do it to their standard, and as it stands, Flash isn't always a great experience and I don't think Apple would want something that takes away from the "magicalness" of using the iPad.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,752
311
Ahhh zing.

Feels good, doesn't it.


As for the Flash, I would assume, in time, they'll add it in. Everyone just needs to chill out, because if apple is going to implement flash, they're going to do it to their standard, and as it stands, Flash isn't always a great experience and I don't think Apple would want something that takes away from the "magicalness" of using the iPad.
Well the iPad is still 60 days away, and Adobe are known for taking their sweet time, so we shouldn't draw any far reaching conclusions from the blue lego piece in Steve's demo.

The problem with Flash, and the likely reason why it never materialized on the iPhone, is that there's really no ceiling for CPU and memory hogging. Flash isn't just about 5 kB banners, you can build monstrous games, endless interactive tutorial videos and all sorts of stuff that's dozens of MB in size. And the ass-backwards rendering takes zero advantage of video acceleration hardware, the whole load is on the CPU which is why nothing can get the fans spinning like crazy or discharge a laptop battery like Flash can. If they want to keep the iPad from becoming the iFry they need to address this somehow.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,830
7,369
If that is true then WHY would Adobe have issued its pissy missive yesterday. Makes as much since as those claiming Apple was going to let Verizon in even as Verizon was airing ads that put the iPhone on the Island of Misfit Toys.
 

Sketh

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2007
256
0
With 10.1, hardware acceleration of flash is possible, although I've really only been impressed with it running on the Pre, in mobile form.

But in that lies a problem, I think Flash looks good on the Pre, which is much underpowered compared to the iPad.

Apple COULD do it, they just aren't satisfied with the turn out, so they'll take their time as will Adobe.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,752
311
If that is true then WHY would Adobe have issued its pissy missive yesterday.
You mean this?
Adobe said:
It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab — not to mention the millions of other sites on the web — I'll be out of luck.
Adobe and more than 50 of our partners in the Open Screen Project are working to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device, so that consumers have open access to their favorite interactive media, content, and applications across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use.
Yeah, well... what if Apple were to develop their own Flash-compatible plugin, like they did with systemwide PDF compatibility in OS X? Yeah, I realize that there are serious copyright issues there, but Apple barely seem to care anymore... the names iPhone and iPad were spoken for but they just went ahead and claimed them anyway and dealt with the legal issues later. The have the equivalent of the state budget of a midsized European country in the bank.
 

pmz

macrumors 68000
Nov 18, 2009
1,948
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NJ
Well the iPad is still 60 days away, and Adobe are known for taking their sweet time, so we shouldn't draw any far reaching conclusions from the blue lego piece in Steve's demo.

The problem with Flash, and the likely reason why it never materialized on the iPhone, is that there's really no ceiling for CPU and memory hogging. Flash isn't just about 5 kB banners, you can build monstrous games, endless interactive tutorial videos and all sorts of stuff that's dozens of MB in size. And the ass-backwards rendering takes zero advantage of video acceleration hardware, the whole load is on the CPU which is why nothing can get the fans spinning like crazy or discharge a laptop battery like Flash can. If they want to keep the iPad from becoming the iFry they need to address this somehow.
And the best way to address is to ditch it entirely. They did already. 3 years ago with the iPhone/iPod touch. 75 million and counting that don't care about Flash. The iPad will be no different.

We are seeing mockups here, not a super secret feature of 4.0
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,752
311
And the best way to address is to ditch it entirely. They did already. 3 years ago with the iPhone/iPod touch. 75 million and counting that don't care about Flash. The iPad will be no different.
Well, then there's 75 million content providers on the web who don't give a crap about the iPhone's 0.44% market share among web browsers.

I don't care about Flash on my iPhone either, because the browsing experience is so littered with compromises anyway, but I would feel totally different if I had an iPad with a full sized web page in front of me. I doubt that I'm alone.
 

VenusianSky

macrumors 65816
Aug 28, 2008
1,283
46
So if it does support Flash, are the "I am going to buy the iPad because it doesn't support Flash" people not going to buy one now?

Sometimes people say the dumbest things.
 

calderone

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2009
3,678
83
Seattle
So if it does support Flash, are the "I am going to buy the iPad because it doesn't support Flash" people not going to buy one now?

Sometimes people say the dumbest things.
I don't personally care about flash. I am not buying it because it doesn't have Flash. I really don't think I have heard anyone say that...

If it has flash, it has it. I hope there is a way to turn it off, maybe an implementation like click2flash.

If it has Flash, I will for sure get a second one for my fiancee, she loves some Farmville.
 

G4R2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2006
546
2
Not. Going. To. Happen.


Read this to know why.
I had to add the bold to your comments for emphasis.

I suppose that most users who complain about the absence of Flash don't realize how bad it is for the web and only care about the delivery of their content, not how it's delivered. JG's observation that Flash is the only proprietary "standard" on the web that is completely in control of Adobe's whims highlights why users should be grateful that Apple hasn't included this on the iPhone and held itself back.
 

steve-p

macrumors 68000
Oct 14, 2008
1,739
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Newbury, UK
highlights why users should be grateful that Apple hasn't included this on the iPhone and held itself back.
Yeah, I can see them being real grateful when they buy "the best way to experience the web" iPad if they aren't aware of this, and their favourite sites don't work. Good news for bargain hunters in the refurb store though.
 

G4R2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2006
546
2
Yeah, I can see them being real grateful when they buy "the best way to experience the web" iPad if they aren't aware of this, and their favourite sites don't work. Good news for bargain hunters in the refurb store though.
The best experience on the web is, in fact, without Flash.

Flash is proprietary, closed standard held exclusively by Adobe.

The only benefits to having Flash on any device are to Adobe, particularly when better performing alternatives exist.

Inclusion of Flash in a device actually slows the development of the device and ties the hands of the device's manufacturers. Gruber gives several good examples of this in his piece that I don't need to repeat here, including the reason why Safari now handles plug-ins the way it does. If Apple ever wanted to move to a different processor, go to 64 bits, or optimize in any way it would be at Adobe's mercy if Flash were incorporated in to Safari, no doubt at no small expense.

Apple, I suppose, could be more clear for those who don't understand technology and say that the iPad is the best web experience Apple can provide. By including Flash Apple could only say that the iPad will be the best experience that Adobe can provide if, when, and how it chooses to.

Bottom line is that the web will be better off when web users are weaned off of Flash and onto open standards.
 

colmaclean

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,644
181
Berlin
Even if Flash was introduced to iPhone OS, how would a lot of its features work?

For instance, a lot of Flash apps respond to mouse pointer position and this is distinct from an actual mouse click (e.g. in Youtube in fullscreen mode, moving the mouse brings up a control bar etc.).

How would you replicate this on a touch device? The ball's in Adobe's court for that one.
 

admanimal

macrumors 68040
Apr 22, 2005
3,530
2
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. The fact that the Apple promo video appears to render the whole NYT page means nothing. Guess what? This video of Safari on iPhone also appears to show it rendering an area of the page that is actually Flash:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/safari.html

but alas on my actual iPhone, that's not what it looks like.

It's a promo video. They could have shown Jonny Ive flying through space on a brushed aluminum and glass rocket if they wanted.
 

Scorpio12345

macrumors member
May 3, 2008
41
0
I don't care about Flash on my iPhone either, because the browsing experience is so littered with compromises anyway, but I would feel totally different if I had an iPad with a full sized web page in front of me. I doubt that I'm alone.
Exactly! I don't know why people don't seem to understand where people are coming from! Its acceptable not to have flash on a phone, but the game changes completely when you have a far bigger screen, especially when you are claiming that netbooks suck and that you offer a better web experience than your own macs!!
 

colmaclean

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,644
181
Berlin
It's a promo video. They could have shown Jonny Ive flying through space on a brushed aluminum and glass rocket if they wanted.
Indeed, they were probably surfing a static version of the NYT site hosted on an intranet deep within the bowels of Applecentral.