I agree with op that firewire is not a need but I can see how video editors would want to have the fast transers that go with firewire. If you were editing video though you could just get the pro with the hardware more suited for video editing.
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a 13 inch notebook doesn't need firewire
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Oh I wholeheartedly agree. FW is infinitely better.
Not disagreeing about the benefits of FW.
I was just saying that most consumer camcorders now seem to be supporting USB2.0 and not just the cheap ones... some very pricey High Def ones are supporting it.
We all know that "the best" doesn't always translate to most proliferative unfortunately.
I don't even use FireWire for camera's, I use it because it's a LOT faster than USB for external hard drives. Also, Target Disk Mode is great...
sushi
Moderator emeritus
Completely agree with you there.
Target Disk Mode is very handy. 🙂
I've done some simple tests with external HDs that have both FW400 and USB2.0. There is simply no comparison in speeds. FW sustains transfer speeds over time. That makes a big difference when coping a few hundred GB of data. This is especially true if time is money.
chaosbunny
macrumors 68020
Cool, let's all throw away our perfectly functional consumer fw cameras we bought 2 years ago and get new ones...
Seriously, I don't understand all the people saying "you don't need firewire anyway" and "you don't need a matte screen anyway" etc. What's wrong with options? I tell you something, I don't need more than 1 hour battery, because the agencies I work for with my laptop have power outlets. What if apple cuts down costs on batteries, would be no problem for me. But I wouldn't go "well there are power outlets everywhere anyway, who needs more than 1 hour battery life?"... There are different people with different needs out there, and especially since apple has basically not more than 4 laptop models (mb, mba, 15" mbp, 17" mbp) they should better make them so that as many people as possible are happy with them, and not limit their functions more and more.
It does.
People that think macbook pros are the only laptops professionals use are idiots.
The macbook is smaller in size, so for things like portable audio editing and recording where a 2ghz-2.4ghz cpu is more than fine, it makes no sense to spend more money on a mac book pro when it’s not needed, and now because of apples decision a large majority of high end audio interfaces are unavailable to be used.
I just love it when apple take away choice, and you people defend it by essentially saying 'spend more for a pro'.
People that think macbook pros are the only laptops professionals use are idiots.
The macbook is smaller in size, so for things like portable audio editing and recording where a 2ghz-2.4ghz cpu is more than fine, it makes no sense to spend more money on a mac book pro when it’s not needed, and now because of apples decision a large majority of high end audio interfaces are unavailable to be used.
I just love it when apple take away choice, and you people defend it by essentially saying 'spend more for a pro'.
sushi
Moderator emeritus
LedCop
macrumors regular
I myself am a bit disappointed that firewire has been dropped in the new MacBooks but I can sorta see Apple's motives behind it.
Video cameras:
A quick look through a video camera catalogue will show that nearly all will support USB2 so Apple doesn't see video camera connectivity as a problem. Yes, some of us have old firewire DV cameras but I guess Apple thinks our next camera upgrade will make it a moot point as time goes on.
Target disk mode:
If IT professionals rely heavily on it for troubleshooting macs, it can easily be done with a portable external usb drive. Just connect it to the problematic mac, boot from it, and the Mac's internal hard disk will show up as a secondary drive. Disconnect the usb drive when done and connect to more Macs.
Firewire audio:
Every person who uses firewire audio and demands nothing less because of latency, fidelity, etc, for their mission-critical super important recording is probably what Apple deems a pro user and therefore has the means to get a MacBook Pro. If you already think that it is the case that not enough people use firewire video cameras for firewire to be greatly missed, then imagine the number of average users who have firewire audio to be even smaller.
Anyway, just my take on how Apple sees things. I'm not saying it's great that Apple chose to make lots of old firewire video cameras obsolete or for them to force the pro audio users to the MacBook Pro, but the situation is not going to get worse for them. The number of USB2 video cameras will rise and firewire only video cameras decrease, cheap portable hard disks provide an alternative to target disk mode and there just aren't that many pro audio users out there who will complain of being unable to use it on a general consumer MacBook; most will begrudgingly get a MacBook Pro and ultimately enjoy their purchase.
Video cameras:
A quick look through a video camera catalogue will show that nearly all will support USB2 so Apple doesn't see video camera connectivity as a problem. Yes, some of us have old firewire DV cameras but I guess Apple thinks our next camera upgrade will make it a moot point as time goes on.
Target disk mode:
If IT professionals rely heavily on it for troubleshooting macs, it can easily be done with a portable external usb drive. Just connect it to the problematic mac, boot from it, and the Mac's internal hard disk will show up as a secondary drive. Disconnect the usb drive when done and connect to more Macs.
Firewire audio:
Every person who uses firewire audio and demands nothing less because of latency, fidelity, etc, for their mission-critical super important recording is probably what Apple deems a pro user and therefore has the means to get a MacBook Pro. If you already think that it is the case that not enough people use firewire video cameras for firewire to be greatly missed, then imagine the number of average users who have firewire audio to be even smaller.
Anyway, just my take on how Apple sees things. I'm not saying it's great that Apple chose to make lots of old firewire video cameras obsolete or for them to force the pro audio users to the MacBook Pro, but the situation is not going to get worse for them. The number of USB2 video cameras will rise and firewire only video cameras decrease, cheap portable hard disks provide an alternative to target disk mode and there just aren't that many pro audio users out there who will complain of being unable to use it on a general consumer MacBook; most will begrudgingly get a MacBook Pro and ultimately enjoy their purchase.
LedCop
macrumors regular
Yup. Voting with your wallet by not buying them might. But we know what the chances of the Mac faithful not caving in are. 🙄
MasterNile
macrumors 65816
All these threads about FW, and all these threads about glossy/glassy screens. It's not about if they need them, it's about if they want them. Mac users are crying out for options (and I don't mean options like paying $800 more for a MBP). Just because we like OS X we shouldn't have to buy a computer that either doesn't suit our needs or doesn't suit our budget. I wish there were some kind of stats (I know it's not really possible but...) of how many hackintosh computers were created over the years, I would wager that they have increased in the past couple of years and even more now. Either give us the ability to truly customize our computers to our needs or open OS X to a company that will.
- I have 2 FireWire TV tuners with hardware compression (current ones do it in software).
- I have a pro full frame still camera that uses FireWire (for control software, not transfering prictures), for which I didn't pay PRO price, as I got it used as an alternative to the very expensive current offerings.
- I have a cheap and perfectly good miniDV camcorder.
- I have a $100 FireWire/SCSI converter for my LTO tape drive (drive which I also got used, of course)
- I don't want to use USB for my external drives.
- And the only PRO thing in the MBP is the name and the price.
- I have a pro full frame still camera that uses FireWire (for control software, not transfering prictures), for which I didn't pay PRO price, as I got it used as an alternative to the very expensive current offerings.
- I have a cheap and perfectly good miniDV camcorder.
- I have a $100 FireWire/SCSI converter for my LTO tape drive (drive which I also got used, of course)
- I don't want to use USB for my external drives.
- And the only PRO thing in the MBP is the name and the price.
I think the big problem that Apple faced with the new Macbook and Macbook Pros was differentiation. In the past, the Macbooks were made with plastic and cheaper components, whereas the Macbook Pros had metal enclosures, better build quality and better components. Now the two of them are very similar in terms of build quality and finish.
The Macbook Pro gives you a bigger screen, better resolution and a better graphics card. But it is also heavier. I bet that a lot of the "pros" were looking lustfully at the new Macbook as a cheaper, lighter option. Contrary to popular belief, pros also like saving money. By removing FireWire from the Macbooks, Apple has drawn a clear dividing line between the two models. I think that it is a slightly cynical move: it will prop up sales of the Macbook Pro at the expense of sales of the Macbook. Personally, I would have liked to see a unified product line of Macbooks: a 13", 15" and 17" with a variety of BTO options. But Apple will have done their homework, and there must be a margin involved with keeping the Macbook and Macbook Pro distinct.
It sucks for me, personally. If the Macbook had FireWire I would have ordered one immediately because my last Macbook died a few weeks ago, but maybe I am not the target demographic? As it stands, I am typing this on a new Acer Aspire One.
The Macbook Pro gives you a bigger screen, better resolution and a better graphics card. But it is also heavier. I bet that a lot of the "pros" were looking lustfully at the new Macbook as a cheaper, lighter option. Contrary to popular belief, pros also like saving money. By removing FireWire from the Macbooks, Apple has drawn a clear dividing line between the two models. I think that it is a slightly cynical move: it will prop up sales of the Macbook Pro at the expense of sales of the Macbook. Personally, I would have liked to see a unified product line of Macbooks: a 13", 15" and 17" with a variety of BTO options. But Apple will have done their homework, and there must be a margin involved with keeping the Macbook and Macbook Pro distinct.
It sucks for me, personally. If the Macbook had FireWire I would have ordered one immediately because my last Macbook died a few weeks ago, but maybe I am not the target demographic? As it stands, I am typing this on a new Acer Aspire One.
I tend to agree, although I consider this the ultimate catering to the marketeers. I think it's a misnomer to call the "pro" "pro", because it's basically just a firewire-equipped lowest denominator macbook. Nothing else. Oh, yeah, that's right, it has a better graphics-setup. Wooptydoo, gamers can have their fun, but since when did they become "pros"? No, the Glassbook FW is even more a joke than the non-fw Glassbook.
LedCop
macrumors regular
I have to disagree. Remember the G4 Cube? That was one of Steve's babies and that got cut due to less than ideal sales.
And I believe the iPhone had the $200 price drop for the same reason.
TuffLuffJimmy
macrumors G3
It's not even stupid. It's mean and manipulative. They're just tugging at my wallet. I guess I'll wait until at least the next revision, hopefully Apple will listen to us and fix it.