A constructive thread? What we love(d) about Apple, why we love(d)

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by macuserlongtime, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. macuserlongtime, Nov 3, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016

    macuserlongtime macrumors newbie

    Sep 9, 2011
    I bought a G4. That was an excellent machine.. I bought every update. And then OSX happened, and I really appreciated that - (I couldn't get my head around extension conflicts). The MacBook went 'aluminium' had a few of those - as well as the cute white ibook (I didn't go for the early colored ibooks). When the G5 came out, I went through 4 of them, 2 at the same time.

    Some time parallel with this, the iphone came out. I bought the first one, returned it. Bought the third, returned it. Bought the 4s and kept it for a year. Bought an iPad and the next and still have it.

    All along the way - I've bought iPhones, iPads, MacMinis, Macbooks, Macbook Airs for my family as well as advising my close friends what would suit their needs.

    I have never adopted a position of 'pro' or 'against' - because some of these products (most iPhones) I haven't appreciated much, and some of them, the G4 towers, I've really loved - but I know that it all, mostly, comes down to personal need and preference.

    From a 'customer service' point of view - my early experiences with Apple were terrible - you had to go to the strangest shops (out of town - maybe for value or maybe because they weren't available?) to buy them, with the most terrible customer service, an image and impression of being a company that did not care about the customer, and felt like the customer was doing them a service to buy their product. (2016 - are we here again?)

    Over the years, the customer service orientation of the company changed very significantly. Now in the UK, I can buy a product in an Apple Store and return it for a full refund within 14 days for no reason whatsoever. This policy, as far as I am aware, does not exist for any other company operating in the UK. That is very impressive and has led to many purchases - I have been able to go to an AppleStore, try out a product, enjoy it and be able to keep it - and at the same time, do the same for some products, and return them. I don't know of any company in the UK at the moment (apart from Amazon?) that offers a similar service.

    I have also had experience of their recent customer service from the point of view of a warranty - a few years ago I bought an Air 11. The motherboard kept frying itself - as irritating as that was - it happend 3 times - each time, Apple replaced the motherboard. Eventually they replaced the whole computer. I was even able, at the end of all of that to upgrade it to a Macbook Pro (paying the slight difference) and that is why I've been using a MBP ever since. You could argue that the original machine should have been flawless - I have taken the view that their service was exceptional throughout.

    That level of service is something that I have not experienced from any consumer company in any field. And is probably why I feel such an attachment to Apple. I feel like they will 'take care of me'. That they go 'above and beyond' - even if I don't like some of their gadgets - they are still an excellent company to spend my money with.

    Did I ever feel they 'listened to me'? I don't think that question ever came up until recently, with the 'thinner, lighter' obsession. It always seemed a 'given' that every new generation would be an improvement in all areas, and that these incremental improvements would occur regularly.

    Soooo.... - if Apple have such great products and great customer service ? What's the problem?
    The problem is that I, and many people, are wanting to buy the next Pro Macbook - a machine that offers the equivalent of the Windows/Linux world - in terms of what matters to us and our livelihood - Ram/ battery hours/ GPU / expandability etc etc - and not - the things that seem to matter to 'you' at Apple HQ - where it seems that the only customers that matter to you are the 'general public' - who, as you have been trying to convince the world for the past few years, would do just as well to buy an iPad ( or a Chromebook!!)

    I have read recently that the reason updates to the MACMINI, MAC PRO, MACBOOK PRO, MACBOOK lines have been delayed are because of delays to Intel's schedule. That may or may not be so - I didn't use to have to be a tech industry insider expert to figure out why I couldn't get an up to date Mac equivalent to the cheap pc or chromebook gadget I just ordered from Amazon for $250 .

    It seems only recently that we, as consumers, have to figure out 'whose fault it is' - is it Intel's fault for not getting their act together, is it 'our fault', as consumers, for expecting consistent ongoing improvements to a product line over time? Maybe it was 'Moore's Law's' fault? But, I don't remember caring about whether my computer's processor was better or faster, if I bought a new one in a year or two, but I did care if the computer could 'do more' - whatever the combination of its internals.

    I guess all of this is leading to where we are now - what Apple has become? What are they trying to do with their computers?

    Does Apple want to provide the world's thinnest and lightest computer?
    Does Apple want to make the most money possible from what it is offering its customer?
    Does Apple want to sell as many computers as possible?

    All of these things make sense, from a company's perspective, and may well be the best way for Apple to go. Soo - well done Apple, and all your execs, for making the best of your lot, at the expense of all your customers, and especially those customers who kept that ailing ship afloat, when you were probably not even aboard, and now you are at its peak, reap the benefits, and sail into the sunset, and congratulations for utterly ruining something that was once beautiful.

    Oh and one last thing... please, Apple, stop trying to fob this off on your loyal and longstanding customers, as being 'good for us'. Pleaaaase. Mr Schiller, Ive, etc let's role play a bit... can you imagine somebody buying a Mac Pro, or a new Mac Book Pro - who do you think this person is ? ??? Ummm?? They may not be earning 1 million an hour or whatever, but, if they are buying a Mac, they are plenty intelligent, smart and wealthy and successful - so I think it might be a good idea to stop insulting them - and telling them that red is green and green is red. Stop treating your customers like morons - that would be a good start. Even - just stop antagonizing your customers - that might be a gentle start?

    I know, Steve Jobs, did this for years. He consistently made unpopular, and disruptive, decisions, in the name of being, 'we know best'. And for years it worked. The difference was that the products that emerged were, for the most part, groundbreaking and excellent. That is not what is happening now.

    It is amazing to me to even be writing this - about a company that is the richest in the world, that has so alienated its core market, the people who kept it afloat for years, and they did so because it provided what they needed and wanted. Obviously, the Mac Pro, the Mac Mini, even the MacBook Pro are not going to provide the stuff that the stock market gets excited about. But Apple didn't used to exist on this basis. It used to exist on the basis of providing excellent products, and later, also excellent customer service. All this has gone out of the window.

    As a last point, I would like to a quote from Phil Schiller's recent interview. This is not the one about the headphone jack or the SD card. This is the one that I feel illustrates why I, and maybe other long time 'MacLovers' have become so disillusioned, sad, frustrated and downright angry.


    "I have never seen a great new Apple product that didn’t have its share of early criticism and debate — and that’s cool. We took a bold risk, and of course with every step forward there is also some change to deal with. Our customers are so passionate, which is amazing. "

    After everything I've written, and lived through, these past 25 years of supporting Apple, to have one of their top guys come out and say this - I'm amazed their PR let it through - because frankly Apple, the degree to which you are so out of touch with your long time customers, many of whom have spent many many tens of thousands, truly feels like a kick in the ****. Surely, you , Mr Schiller, are an intelligent human being - do you not expect your customers, who have spent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, to be the same? Please at least, do us the favor, to not treat us like morons.
  2. ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    Considering the scope of your post, I don't know why this is specifically in the Mac Pro forum. But to answer the question:
    • A powerful computer with an extremely nice case that caters to people who tinker/expand/upgrade. (cMP)
    • Thin, light, and powerful laptop that includes a trackpad which is actually useful. (MBP)
    • A small, efficient, and capable computer that doesn't overheat even though it's entirely enclosed in a firesafe with no ventilation. (Mac Mini)
    • A phone that made using the Internet tolerable. (iPhone)
    • A tablet that's very quick and efficient for what I use it for. (iPad)
  3. macuserlongtime thread starter macrumors newbie

    Sep 9, 2011

    Hi - I obviously feel very strongly about the 'MacWorld' which I feel is collapsing around us :) I put this post in this forum because it is mostly addressed to people like me who have loved Macs for a long long time - and I define that as around 20-25 years - not to exclude others - but to provide a 'shield' to the very many people on this forum who seem to be 'shilling' for Apple and defending and fighting for every decision they make
  4. Boyd01 macrumors 601


    Feb 21, 2012
    New Jersey Pine Barrens
    Sorry, didn't have time to read the story of your life. :)

    I bought one of the first 5000 Apple ][ computers back in 1978. Got a "Fat Mac" 512k in 1985. Have owned almost every flavor of Mac since then, got my first iPhone in 2007. For awhile I maintained an office full of Macs at a small business. Currently use an iPhone 6s Plus, two Mac Mini's and a MacBook Air.

    Am not terribly impressed with the recent direction of the Mac, but "it is what it is". I need to stick with it, if for no other reason than all my legacy software that would cost about $6000 to replace and just wouldn't be worth it.

    IMO, there has always been a problem with people confusing Apple with their Mommy. It's just a company… arguably the biggest company in the world. Sadly, things will never be the same as when Steve was there, but we can't change that.
  5. tomvos macrumors 6502


    Jul 7, 2005
    In the Nexus.
    To sum up my experience with Apple in one sentence: "Way more ups than downs."

    I started with an iBook G3 600 MHz as my first own Mac. Because I wanted Mac OS X - at that time is was OS X 10.1.5. And while it was quite slow, it still was the best Unix I had seen up to this time. This got me hooked to the Apple world.
    Before macOS it was Irix and Solaris at university, and dual boot Linux and Windows at home.

    Hardware wise, I tried many different machines and most fondly I remember the Cube, my MP5.1 and the current 12" MacBook. The Cube for it's sheer beauty and silence, the MP5.1 as it's a trustworthy workhorse and the 12" MB because it's silent.

    I had a few turds as well, the freezing PowerMac G5 1.8 Single (600 MHz FSB), one of those extreme loud G4 PowerMacs and the first gen MBA which was always overheating and than throttling down to one core and 800MHz.

    I'm a little bit concerned about the current trends at Apple, but I still think most of the talk is pure marketing. And you know what Dilbert said about Marketing: "Two drinks minimum." So I don't take their words too seriously and try not to miss a good opportunity to make jokes about Apple's marketing.

    The point is - underneath all this marketing blabber there are still quite decent machines sold by Apple. A lot of this "pro" stuff is more about marketing and upselling than actually being professional. Our computers have changed all the times. Why should this stop now?
  6. jeff7117 macrumors regular

    Jul 22, 2009
    Because almost all the time, "It just worked" right out of the box. No drivers or fiddling with extensions. No viruses and no spyware.
  7. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

    Feb 6, 2007
    heh, i'd feel equally odd saying 'i love apple' as i do 'i hate apple'.

    but maybe this is just a semantics thing but in all reality, i don't love anything about apple..
  8. spacebro macrumors 6502a

    Oct 1, 2015
    I jumped on board apple because I wanted to upgrade my atom netbook and didn't want a cdrom in it. There were no pcs besides atom powered pcs in 2012 without a cdrom and I was waiting for a powerful pc like that to come out. Apple came out with what I wanted in 2012 with the rmbp and I immediately bought one. You could get 16gb ram in a thin laptop in a time when pc laptops typically had 2gb or 4gb and netbooks had 1gb. Overnight macbook pros became the computer for power users. Who could have imagined 5 years later the ram limit would still be 16gb? Their game plan seems to be to reduce the mac line down to laptops and whittle those down until they are like the atom netbook. Even if apple refreshes the mac pro, at this point its too late. Apple has been so unreliable with updates- even negligent- that you have to question the future of the mac itself. The writing is on the wall, you will have to migrate to windows sooner or later and its tragic. I'll get my alienware, or lenovo, or whatever and hide it in a dock behind my monitor because it will be ugly. Life will go on, I'll get my work done using almost all of the same apps except on windows. We can look back with fondness at apple's power user era 2012-2016. Maybe a pc laptop company will adopt apple's 2012 mac design philosophy.
  9. Tech198, Nov 5, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016

    Tech198 macrumors G5

    Mar 21, 2011
    Australia, Perth
    The hidden message in that is "Almost all the time"

    not really the place for me, i don't, never do really just love or loved one company ever... I like my own options of choosing what to use and not favoring one over any other. Maybe issues around not liking the direction Apple is headed, or done with iOS 10 for instance.

    Usually have have my differences about what i hate, but then again if i hate it that badly, i don't use it, regardless of anything else. so in net,, it's kind of like, tossing it out the window and never looking back..

    At the end of the day, u may snug with them,hold them, stroke them, but to me all of them are just like anything else...technology... some have that kind of highest (dunno what the word is) with fascination.... i will ever understand that, because its just technology to me... regardless.

    I wouldn't treat Mac's any special way over say a Dell PC, just because well... for what reason ? Ys, they may be more expensive, yes, they may work better, u can say anything u like, but its how u treat them that's more important...

    Apple is just a company.... I dunno why, never really found that same kind of presence with "I love Apple products more" type syndrome. It's why so many users go through iPhones with cracked screens all the time.. and i've never needed a new iphone or repair since i got my 6.
  10. dumastudetto macrumors 68030

    Aug 28, 2013
    I love this company.

    Why? Because I have high standards and I demand the very best products. So with Apple everything they make and do is the absolute best. The best smartphone, best tablets, best computers, best software, best smart TV device, best accessories, best services (iCloud, Apple Music, Warranties), best support. Apple is the best.

    There is no company like Apple on earth. I am proud to use all their products and I recommend them to anyone who will listen to me.
  11. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

    Feb 6, 2007
    here's my thing with macs..

    my first computer was a mac.. i've owned about 9 of them now.. a couple of things about available software had me considering bootcamping once but i didn't (as in, that's the closest i've ever come to using windows.. and the software concerns are no longer a problem as osx has picked up a few key players in CAD land this past decade)

    anyway.. nothing about the computers or using them ever made me think "maybe i should look elsewhere"... in my experience, they're very well built (considering there's glass and a bunch of micro crap-- i.e. not bulletproof but...) and completely dependable..
    and i can work quickly and accurately with no data loss.

    the few issues i've had with apple regarding hardware has been resolved quickly and fairly.

    so, i like apple products and continue to use them because i have no reasons not to.. they're fine by me.
  12. admob71 Suspended


    Feb 13, 2014
    Lol, oh timmy, you are fantastic. Best phone, Erm nope. IPads are good, better than a galaxy tab S? Debatable.. computers are good. Cloud services? Absolute garbage compared to ALL others... TV? This is a joke right... Apple music??? Lol.. software.. ?? Each ios release bricks devices. I'll give you support. So more minuses than plusses. Reason? I'm not blinkered and don't see them as a diety, just a tech firm selling stuff. You would too if you lost the emotional attachment.
  13. loby macrumors 6502a


    Jul 1, 2010
    My first mac was an apple IIe...My dad owned a Sign Company (Graphics) at the time in the early 1980's. I tried to talk my dad into just going 'all apple' at the time...but Windows was the better choice during those days for overall business and believe it or not, Windows in those days had the better overall graphic experience and software (or at least in my niche). He switched to Windows completely to my displeasure...so like a son following his dad's direction, I too left behind apple. So I was a "windows guy" for many many years, and not a mere user who started with Windows back in the 1.0 days...I left graphics and went into the complete technological world with its complexities and did some pioneering stuff with now nonexistent companies. Fun days.

    During the era of what I call the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" wars in mid 2000's, after a long tech career, I went back to my graphics roots and stated a graphics company with another guy. He was a Mac guy (good designer), I was a Windows guy. We argued much about what was better (just like the ads) ;) . After years of the headaches with Windows (I was even going to be a Windows Architect for those who remember that), I decided to get my first Mac officially to just see what the apple world was like now and what it could really do...which was a 2009 Mac mini...(still have and use)

    That little match box of a computer changed my whole technological experience and I left (literally dropped- as my mouth also did) the Windows universe for good. I just plugged in things expecting to take at least three hours to make it work, and guess what...I plugged in some hardware...one second later...it just worked. I remember to this day looking at that match box computer in amazement (literally). I could actually concentrate "out-of-the-box" on creative content, instead of hours and sometimes days with Windows first configuring it to get things working...

    My graphics company lasted just a few years and went to other things. My partner (still friend) who was a die-hard apple guy in those days is now a Windows guy. I on the other had, became an apple guy and will probably continue. I asked him why the switch, you would vomit if I mentioned Windows stuff back then? He said, that his work (design company) uses Windows stuff and had the equivalent software (Photoshop etc.) that he used when he was using Macs, but now the Windows world works fine for him. He said, "I cannot tell the difference really anymore and also...a Windows computer is 1/4 of the cost...."

    Times have changed...apple...this is true. Please listen to your loyal customers needs or they too will leave. The iPhone and watch band trend can only last so long...

    The overall apple experience is still good for me. I even bought "the old" in July 2016 the Mac Pro 2013 due to work needs (FCPX). Had to return the first due to issues....but...overall... I love it, though yes it still has "hiccups". I understand...new idea, takes time to hammer out the bugs. I get it. But at your now premium costs...we cannot "be patient" so you can "work out the bugs". That is why before we bought Apple Macs...it almost out-of the box just worked, and...lasted longer than any cheap PC.

    But..like the thread starter said, the direction you are going will make long time users have to switch, especially business users. I am very aware that there is "no money" in desktop computers anymore. The stats would prove that, but..it is still a need because people still work, but the competitive advantage is no longer achievable to make it worth your while...understand.

    Even if apple updates the complete Mac line with "cool" power user stuff, it will quiet some people for some time...but the uncertainties concerning business planning (projected budgeting), including the recent consistent lack of detail in quality assurance (and we are hearing this again now with the new MacBook Pro's issues), including the pursuit by you (apple) to lower production costs, while increasing profits, will cause many to doubt reliability and judge the high price as "not worth" the cost, trouble or even headaches any longer (sounds like a PC now...eh? ).

    The recent MacBook Pro, though 'nice'...but really...in a few years will be completely obsolete. No options to upgrade anything to push its longevity to justify the initial high purchase cost. Basic logic would say to buy a cheaper PC and replace it in 2 years since Windows has now equivalent software (and in some areas unfortunately 'better' software).

    Apple...you are making it harder for people to stay with you. The current MacBook Pro for example is 'good', but you have made it a disposable commodity that will be obsolete probably two years as your other products are morphing into. $3,000+ on a top-of-the-line disposable commodity 'pro' (just a laptop) to replace every two years now is just plain idiotic...

    But if you are listening to the marketeers (Yes, I use to get the same information...) The millennials will just spend regardless of the price. iPhones have proven this, But when millennials run out of money (or credit cards or apple pay) what will YOU have left...?

    The customer segment you are leaving behind will have already migrated to the Windows ecosystem and will not spend the high prices to convert back to your ecosystem. By that time, all of the current apple management will be retired and not have to worry about this. I guess that is your real goal. Good job, you did well.

    Short term, hight profits, but long term...what?

    I am not an apple 'basher' though some of my threads seem that way. I prefer your ecosystem over Windows and REALLY do not want to HAVE to switch or go back. I use both platforms because I HAVE TO NOW. My colleges are migrating slowly to Windows (AVID) and if I want to continue to work with them....what am I suppose to do? I don't want to have to invest in Windows gear. I personally do not like the Windows or Microsoft environment anymore...

    Please think it over for some of us who what to continue with you. Make the segment that may not make you the most profits stay...
  14. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    [MOD NOTE]
    Please stop with the bickering, a number of posts were removed, because they were derailing the thread.
  15. gazmat macrumors newbie


    Apr 5, 2008
    I bought my first Mac in 2002: a 17 inch iMac G4. It was love from the moment I unboxed it. Yes, it cost a fortune but it was so beautiful, substantial, over-engineered and, well, futuristic.

    We didn't have a DVD player at that time and all our TVs were monstrous CRT boxes. Suddenly, here in our lounge was a DVD recorder, a widescreen LCD flat monitor, an mp3 jukebox, a video editing suite etc. Once it was connected up to the fastest broadband service I could find I was set and life would never be the same again.

    I'd never owned an object that was so well-made, so magnificently designed and so useful. There followed an iPod, a DV video camera, a digital stills camera, music making gear. At last I had this one tool that could allow me to make the movies and music and images I'd always dreamed of creating. As the years went by I bought all the latest apple software and peripherals, then a black MacBook and an Airport Extreme and went wireless (which seemed magical at the time), then an original iPhone which was another life changer. But by now in the late 00s I realised I was never really going to be a film-maker, or make a hit record or become a pro photographer. Now the technology was more and more just being used to dick around on the internet and consume media.

    When I bought an iPad in 2012, I was a little underwhelmed. It was nice but not really all that useful and in the end, I sold it. The only Apple product I ever sold. And that was the beginning of the end of the affair. We still have a house full of Apple gear that works pretty flawlessly most of the time, but I'm no longer bothered about having the latest and greatest. I no longer watch the product launches with any sense of excitement or desire for the new gear.

    It's not really that Apple products have gotten worse but they are more and more simply refinements of technology that's been around for years now and my uses for the products has become more limited and mundane. The first 'hit' - switching on that iMac G4 brimming with so much amazing new (to me) technology and promise - can't ever be repeated, unfortunately.

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