A Few Questions Regarding Blackra1n 3GS

Discussion in 'Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks' started by DaisyLove, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. DaisyLove macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    #1
    Hey guys, I'm getting ready to buy my very first iPhone (3GS) and I just had a couple questions regarding jailbreaking it.
    I know that it will be a tethered jailbreak and that is fine with me but I've heard that some people have issues and problems after jailbreaking using Blackra1n.
    Can someone go over some of the problems in a little more detail so that I know what I'll be getting into?
    Can the problems that arise from jailbreaking with Blackra1n be resolved with a restore or anything?
    Is there anything else to use to jailbreak the iPhone 3GS other than Blackra1n?

    Thanks for you help! :)
     
  2. dhlizard macrumors G4

    dhlizard

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    #2
    :cool:
     
  3. NathanA macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    AFAIK, not being a blackra1n/sn0w user (being lucky enough to have a July 3GS that I can use PwnageTool on) but having done a fair amount of reading on the subject, the problems with WiFi and such are NOT blackra1n's fault, but only happen as a (indirect) result of using blackSN0W, which is the program you use to unlock the phone for use with other SIMs/cellular carriers AFTER you jailbreak. There are two programs at work here: blackRA1N jailbreaks the phone, and blackSN0W unlocks it. The jailbreak itself done by blackra1n doesn't cause you to have WiFi problems.

    Furthermore, all evidence at this point seems to show that blacksn0w itself is not actually directly to blame for the WiFi issues, either. It looks to be a bug in Apple's code (as of 3.1 and carrying into 3.1.2) that blacksn0w happens to exacerbate. It is more rare, but there are some people who have encountered the issue without ever jailbreaking and unlocking their phones (there's a reaaaally long discussion thread on discussions.apple.com about this). Using blacksn0w doesn't cause it; it just makes it more likely to happen. And in neither case is it "permanent." Triggering the bug doesn't make the hardware internals for the WiFi melt down. Usually, if you reboot a few times, or reset your network settings (sometimes more than once), it will finally correct itself for a little while again. If you uninstall blacksn0w (which you can do without unjailbreaking/restoring, if you aren't dependent on it for using your SIM card), you will probably stop having the problem.

    Finally, the lack of push notifications is also not a problem unique to blackra1n OR blacksn0w. It is not any more likely to occur if you jailbreak with blackra1n than if you jailbreak using another method (redsn0w, PwnageTool, etc.). The issue is that push notifications at this point will not work reliably if you "hacktivate" your phone, which is the term used by people to describe bypassing mandatory iTunes activation using a SIM card valid for the carrier that your iPhone is locked to. If you have an active contract with the carrier you purchased your iPhone from, and you activate the phone properly through iTunes, you will have no problems with push notifications even if you jailbreak. Push notification issues are jailbreak+"hacktivation" issues in the OS code, not yellowsn0w/ultrasn0w/blacksn0w unlocking issues with the baseband code.

    So, to recap:

    1. There are two programs at issue here: blackRA1N and blackSN0W
    2. blackRA1N does the jailbreak.
    3. blackSN0W does the unlock.
    4. Jailbreaking by itself does not cause WiFi + other issues mentioned previously.
    5. blackSN0W happens to trigger an existing bug in 3.1 and 3.1.2 randomly that you may run into even if you never jailbreak or unluck.
    6. If you aren't planning to unlock, you don't have to install blackSN0W anyway, and so probably won't run into the WiFi bug.
    7. Push notification issue is not due to jailbreaking, but rather "hacktivating" a jailbroken phone instead of "activating" it through iTunes.
    8. You won't run into push notification issue with blackra1n jailbreak if you activate normally through iTunes with your original SIM.

    (the last point, of course, can only happen if you have an active contract with the carrier that gave you that original SIM.)

    Hope this helps!

    -- Nathan
     
  4. dhlizard macrumors G4

    dhlizard

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    #4
    Great detail and accurate, but the bottom line is:

    A percentage of Blackra1n/Blacksn0w users have the Wifi, carrier, GPS and push issues. The OP asked about potential issues.

    There are generally far fewer issues when DevTeam tools are used so hopefully Redsn0w will be updated quickly.
     
  5. DaisyLove thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    #5
    Thank you very much for your help dhlizard and NathanA. Those replies helped to clear up many things for me.
    Regarding "Unlocking" an iPhone however, I will be using it with an active contract from Bell so will I even need to unlock my iPhone?
     
  6. dhlizard macrumors G4

    dhlizard

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    #6
    Do you mean AT&T ?

    If you are using an official carrier, you do not need to unlock.
     
  7. pcs are junk macrumors 65816

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    Sep 28, 2009
    #7
    Bell is AT&T i believe. the programming language "C", was created in Bell Labs, which is what AT&T was i think. something like that, so if it wasnt for at&t, you probably would still have a black and white computer.
     
  8. thelatinist macrumors 603

    thelatinist

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    #8
    No, I think he means Bell. You know, an official carrier in your neighbor to the north?
     
  9. DaisyLove thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Jan 8, 2010
    #9
    Yes I mean Bell, since I live in Canada and Bell just recently started carrying iPhones :D
     
  10. NathanA macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    While true at a cursory glance, statements like this unfairly put blackRA1N in an unfavorable light. I'm trying to clear up the misconceptions. I generally favor and wait for Dev Team releases myself, but please: let's be honest and accurate, with each other and ourselves.

    Here's the actual bottom-line:

    1. You won't run into Wi-Fi issues unless you install blackSN0W, which can be installed on a blackRA1N'd phone OR a redsn0w'd phone. So the only people who will run into that problem are people on 05.11.07 baseband who want to unlock, regardless of jailbreak solution. Dev Team doesn't even have a 05.11.07 unlock solution, so if you NEED the unlock, your hand is kind of forced since there is no way to downgrade 3GS baseband.

    2. Same with the loss of carrier signal, although I haven't heard of anybody complaining of this. I wouldn't mind some pointers/sources on this.

    3. Finally, the percentage of people affected by push notification problems is exactly the same on both blackRA1N and Dev Team jailbreaks. Because the problem has to do with HACKTIVATION and NOT the jailbreak you choose to use. So implying that blackra1n has this issue and that waiting for redsn0w 0.9 will avoid the problem because it is a perfect Dev Team release is wholly inaccurate. Tons of people using Dev Team jailbreaks this very day also have this problem. The only way to truly avoid it is to activate the phone with iTunes and an official iPhone carrier's SIM in place.

    Maybe I am misinterpreting/misunderstanding you here, and maybe I am also making inaccurate statements myself. If so, I welcome public correction with open arms. :)

    -- Nathan
     
  11. dhlizard macrumors G4

    dhlizard

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    #11
    This was my exact response to OP's exact question

    I didn't assign any blame to any of these issues, just simply answered the question about potential issues. Giving the OP ideas to research to make a personal decision about JB.

    Then I recommended DevTeam tools.

    With regard to carrier issues, read the DevTeam blog as dozens if not more, are posting carrier/signal/dropped call issues. Again, I am not going to assign blame. You can read the threads if you choose.
     
  12. BergerFan macrumors 68020

    BergerFan

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    #12
    I thought I'd post in here, rather than start a new thread. Anyways, My question is this:
    Can I copy Blackra1n to my work PC (that isn't authorised and does not have iTunes on it) and run it, if I need to reboot my tethered 3GS when not in close proximity to my PC at home?
    On Wednesday, my 3GS 'died', after a generic and usually normal respring, totally randomly, and I was stuck, without an iPhone for a whole working day(that was torture, I can tell you). :eek: :D
     
  13. BittenApple macrumors 6502a

    BittenApple

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    #13
    Yes.
     
  14. makemineamac macrumors newbie

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    May 25, 2007
    #14
    Push

    The push issue as mentioned has been well-documented as a problem on both hackivated and legitimately activated phones with blackra1n.

    In addition to what's out there already, I can tell you first-hand that push does not consistently work on my 3GS or 3 of my friends blackra1ned 3Gs's. I(I have since had to go back to stock firmware)

    If you plan on using What's App or any of the great push Apps available out there and you're hacktivating there is a paid-for fix available - I think it's at pushfix.info.

    This fix did not work for me on my 3GS, perhaps because mine is on a legitimate carrier and did not require hackivation, but it totally resolved all push issues on a friends hacktivated 3G. I really hope the next devteam release will somehow address this issue as it is preventing from experiencing all I used to on my old 3G.
     
  15. thelatinist macrumors 603

    thelatinist

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    #15
    No. This is not true. If you properly activate before you run blackra1n it will not affect push at all. Only hacktivated phones have this issue.
     
  16. rembot macrumors member

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    Jul 29, 2009
    Location:
    ottawa
    #16
    I have been reading a lot jailbreaking with blackrain or redsnow. I have used dev's team in the past to jailbreak my phone (my phone i jailbroken at 3.0.1 right now) I had no issues and wasnt planning on upgrading my iphone until a decent upgrade was available. but to play grand theft auto i need to update my phone.

    I heard redsnow 0.9 beta 3 has a few issues right now, it doesnt work for everyone. While blackrain has the tether issue. If i need to reboot my phone, i'll be in trouble since i dont have a laptop. So this could be an issue as well, but rebooting my phone happens once a month at most, so i could live with it. How easy is it to run blackrain at work? do you need itunes or an other program as well? What are the pros and cons betwen blackrain and redsnow.
    I dont need to unlock my phone, all i need is a jailbreak.

    thanks
     
  17. dhlizard macrumors G4

    dhlizard

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    #17
    There is a new Mac version of Redsn0w 0.9 with problems fixed and PC version has no reported problems.

    Use Redsn0w, you will be glad you did.
     
  18. rembot macrumors member

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    Jul 29, 2009
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    ottawa
    #18
    I used redsnow with my 3.0.1 iphone 3gs and it is great. So now, before i use redsnow 0.9, do i need to update my phone via itunes to 3.1.2 and then use redsnow? or just use redsnow and select "already pwend" option? I read the dev team blob page about redsnow 0.9 but they do not mention if we need to upgrade to 3.1.2 before using their tools. By upgrading to 3.1.2, will i lose anything? or will i get it back once my phone is jailbroken again?

    And im still debating wether to pick blackrain or redsnow, i'd like to hear what problems i may encounter before making a decision.
     
  19. dhlizard macrumors G4

    dhlizard

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    #19
    Here is a tutorial http://www.ihackintosh.com/2010/01/guide-to-jailbreak-iphone-2g-3g-3gs-os-3-1-2-with-redsn0w-0-9/

    Here is some info from MuscleNerd http://wikee.iphwn.org/howto:rs9beta

    The worst that could happen is that you would have to restore to Official Apple IPSW. It's jailbreaking, there are no guarantees.

    You do not have to restore to Apple IPSW first but you do need to have it downloaded on your computer so you can point Redsn0w at the IPSW.
     
  20. i228 macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    #20
    Hey guys I have a friend with a 3GS and trying to jailbreak it with redsn0w since he's had issues with blackra1n. All goes well and the serial starts with 88926 so I selected "No" when asking if it's a newer version. I put the phone in DFU mode and redsn0w does its thing. However the screen goes black but the phone is still on while redsn0w uploads the files. After it's finished the screen stays black for about 5 mins then the phone reboots and nothing has happened. I've jailbroken several times before using redsn0w and usually there's logos and a status bar. Anyone else having these issues?
     
  21. NathanA macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Sigh. So much misinformation, so little time.

    Alright, then I apologize for misinterpreting you. I think the way you stated it made it seem like you were pointing fingers a bit, like when you responded with...

    ...so you might want to be a little more clear next time that this isn't what you meant exactly. :)

    thelatinist speaks the truth. Heed his instruction.

    Wrong.

    blackra1n is not a tethered jailbreak unless you have a phone that requires it (one with the new bootrom). blackra1n is not a tethered jailbreak inherently. If you have one of those phones with the new bootrom, your ONLY OPTION is tethered, REGARDLESS of whether you use blackra1n or redsn0w (and PwnageTool is not even an option on those phones).

    blackra1n gives you MORE options (tethered for those phones that require it, untethered for those who can be), not LESS (tethered for every user, or only working with untether-able phones).

    Since this poster is already JB'd at 3.0.x, there is no reason why we should be encouraging him to update to stock 3.1.2 and use redsn0w. The poster would be better served by using PwnageTool to create a custom 3.1.2 IPSW so that the 04.26.08 version of the baseband is preserved, in case he ever needs to unlock and wants to avoid the potential problems indirectly caused by blacksn0w. For those that don't have a choice, blacksn0w is a fine option, but for those who do, why encourage people to do something that they won't be able to back out of later?

    There's your problem. You don't put 3GS phones into DFU when jailbreaking, ever. Only original iPhones and 3G iPhones have a known DFU-level bug that can be exploited; that is what the "Pwnage" exploit targets. For the 3GS, the bug that is being exploited is a USB bug in iBoot, which is what is running when you are in normal Restore Mode.

    redsn0w instructed you how to get the phone into restore mode to proceed with the jailbreak of your 3GS, so why are you ignoring it and putting the phone into DFU mode instead? Just do what is printed on the screen for you to do.

    -- Nathan
     
  22. rembot macrumors member

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    ottawa
    #22
    Thank you nathan and dhlizard for the information.

    Personnaly i wont need to ever unlock my phone. So unlocking isnt an issue for me. So, i have a 3.0.1 iphone, jialbroken with redsnow. What would be easier AND most importantly, the reliable option to update my iphone and jailbreak it again?

    I wont need to tether my phone to jailbreak it, since i dont have a recent version of the 3gs.
     
  23. NathanA macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    #23
    Many factors to consider. Your own personal choice will have to be governed by the different variables that you are going to have to sift through. But here's the rundown:

    Easiest (as in, less effort) would indeed be to update to official Apple firmware and then to use either blackra1n or redsn0w. But like I said before, you lose your older baseband firmware.

    Why would that matter if you're not planning to unlock? Well, for one, it certainly wouldn't hurt the resale value of your phone if you decided to keep the old baseband around, that's for sure. (Your phone can still be unlocked if you upgrade the baseband using blacksn0w, but then you run the risk of WiFi and other problems.)

    blackra1n vs. redsn0w? Well, again, if we are using "easy" as the measuring stick, I think it would be hard to argue that other methods are easier than blackra1n currently. After all, it only gives you a single button to click on when you load it. :)

    redsn0w gives you more options than blackra1n, but the version that supports OS 3.1.2 is also still in beta/not officially released, and the Dev Team is still sorting out minor problems with it here and there and updating the beta gradually as that process moves along. I'm sure they will have all the kinks worked out soon enough.

    PwnageTool gives you an option that no other jailbreak method gives you: a way out of upgrading the baseband firmware, and electing to keep the old one. I would say that PwnageTool is not difficult to use, but in comparison with the other two methods, the level of difficulty is admittedly higher. First, you have to have a Mac, since there is (as of yet) no Windows version of PwnageTool. Second, it's not just a matter of clicking through a Wizard or hitting a button and having it do everything in one fell swoop. You have to have a copy of the firmware file handy, have enough free space to generate another (custom) one, let PwnageTool run the necessary exploit for your phone depending on the model and whether it has already been jailbroken before or not, and then you need to load the custom firmware into the phone using iTunes separately.

    So, ease-of-use-wise, I would say the order, from easiest to more difficult, goes like this:

    1) blackra1n
    2) redsn0w
    3) PwnageTool

    But benefits-and-flexibility-wise, the order goes in exactly the opposite direction, with PwnageTool on top. :) I personally use and recommend PwnageTool, but if you want to make things the absolute easiest on yourself as possible, and you have read and acknowledge the disclaimers about your baseband getting updated in the process, then use blackra1n. If you want something still somewhat easy but with a few more options and flexibility than blackra1n (but something which will still require you to go through a baseband update), use redsn0w 0.9beta3.

    I hope this has been helpful.

    -- Nathan
     
  24. pixelated macrumors 6502a

    pixelated

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    Oct 21, 2008
    #24
    fyi, internet tethering and a tethered JB are different things
     
  25. Bambi Lives macrumors newbie

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    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #25
    Hi guys, I plan to jailbreak my 3Gs 3.1.2 and am trying to read up on it as much as possible beforehand since it's new territory for me. One question I have is regarding baseband updating, the pros/cons and what the significance is when it comes to only jailbreaking, not unlocking my phone.
    This is probably a pretty basic question, forgive my ignorance..lol

    Thanks, Alyse
     

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