A General Observation: Mac problems vs Windows

[komatsu]

In the film 1988 "Childs Play" there was an evil doll call Chucky who kept coming back to life even after being killed...

Mac problems seem like that sometimes. A quick read of any Mac troubleshooting forum and there are stories of a problem that went away for a couple of days and then came back.

As a Windows technician primarily, bar the odd recuring Blue Screen of Death - a "fixed problem" usually stayed fixed.

Not so with Macs. Sometimes they will give the appearance of being "fixed" but then start playing up again maybe 4-5 days after. This is one aspect of Mac troubleshooting which I have not been able to figure out.

Can anybody explain this one?

 

[Intell]

The Mac equivalent of a BSoD, a kernel panic, is usually resolved once as is with Windows' BSoD.

 

[komatsu]

I have to disagree.

Windows BSOD's can give even the most thorough and experienced Windows technician / administrator a surprise by coming back.

 

[Jack Parker]

Here's my honest experience.

I switched to Mac from PC on 1/01/2008 and haven't looked back. The problems and errors I had for years with Microsoft were never ending. I had to replace my PC, on average, every two years. Add to that expense, the continual expenses of antivirus and malware software subscriptions and the toll the stress took on me. I came to the conclusion that I would never buy another PC. I'd rather go without a computer altogether. From my experience, the "fixes" on PCs never stayed fixed. And the problems were almost daily.

Since I bought my mid-2007 iMac, I've not had a single problem with it. Not one. It still looks and runs like new. (How many PCs would I have had to replace in all these years is scary to consider.) The extended warranty is half the price and I didn't need it. No antivirus or malware software necessary. No computer cleaning programs, either.

Since I switched to Mac, I've always said, "Buying a new PC is like buying a car... and having to push it everywhere you go. Buying a Mac is like getting a chauffeur with the car."

 

[Intell]

Most non-kernel panic problems when fixed by an educated technician stay fixed or at the very least don't present themselves to the end user. Of course a reoccurring BSoD is more likely to return whereas a properly fixed kernel panic is not.

 

[Xeridionix]

Kernel panics on either platform can be caused either by faulty hardware or software (drivers and the like). Since Windows needs to support so much more hardware compared to OS X, you're likely to see less software related panics on a Mac... not to mention the sheer amount of old and outdated drivers still kicking around for Windows that can still be installed on newer versions even though you're likely to run into crashes and bug checks/BSOD's more often then.

Both platforms are inherently stable, OS X is solid as a rock and the Windows NT kernel at the heart of every version of Windows since 2000 is solid as well. It's the third party drivers that throw a monkey wrench in things -- I mean look at Windows Vista. It was a stepping stone to a more reliable Windows (the whole system was broken up into components and this has evolved over the years), but horrible driver support out of the gate gave it a pretty bad reputation (for example, NVIDIA's kernel mode drivers for the new graphics subsystem in Windows Vista used to crash left right and centre if you so much as looked at the screen the wrong way...)

 

[komatsu]

(for example, NVIDIA's kernel mode drivers for the new graphics subsystem in Windows Vista used to crash left right and centre if you so much as looked at the screen the wrong way...)

I've been there with Vista drivers! ...from my experience the sheer horribleness of Vista was a tipping point pushing Mac from being a niche product to a mainstream one. People who needed a new computer system at the time were saying "I need a new computer but a friend told me to stay away from Vista" followed by "I heat those Macs are meant to be good..." They indeed went out an bought a Mac and never looked back.

 

[satcomer]

The problem with PCs was long ago race to bottom for cheap PCs loading those PCs up with so much "bloatware" most common people would hate new computers after a couple of months.

I don't hate Microsoft but reserve my right to critique PC manufactures and their horrible PCs bloatware! IMHO The race to bottom has killed the PC business. However Microsoft does deserve criticism for their new server yearly fees! This alone has cause most small business to look at Linux servers to just save money!

 

[komatsu]

However Microsoft does deserve criticism for their new server yearly fees! This alone has cause most small business to look at Linux servers to just save money!

And its not just small business who are migrating from Microsoft.

In Europe, local government is migrating to Ubuntu for desktop computing.

http://www.unixmen.com/turin-first-italian-open-source-city/

 

[Ulenspiegel]

In the film 1988 "Childs Play" there was an evil doll call Chucky who kept coming back to life even after being killed...

Mac problems seem like that sometimes. A quick read of any Mac troubleshooting forum and there are stories of a problem that went away for a couple of days and then came back.

As a Windows technician primarily, bar the odd recuring Blue Screen of Death - a "fixed problem" usually stayed fixed.

Not so with Macs. Sometimes they will give the appearance of being "fixed" but then start playing up again maybe 4-5 days after. This is one aspect of Mac troubleshooting which I have not been able to figure out.

Can anybody explain this one?

Can you be more specific what kind of "fixed, but reappearing problems" do you mean in case of OS X?

What concerns Windows. I have been using it since the very beginning. Windows has never been a stable, reliable OS. This situation does not change. Just the other day I faced an evergreen BSOD on one of my PCs at home running Windows 7 Ultimate. It is rarely used, up to date (drivers etc.), malware/virus free. And still, the "good old friend" BSOD appeared. So much for Windows.

 

[komatsu]

to name just a few...

- File sharing glitches on LAN
- Internet connectivity glitches on LAN
- WiFi connectivity glitches

 

[Ulenspiegel]

to name just a few...

- File sharing glitches on LAN
- Internet connectivity glitches on LAN
- WiFi connectivity glitches

You use Yosemite, don't you?

 

[komatsu]

lol.

No. I've always noticed this about Mac.

If you fix a Windows internet connectivity problem. It usually stays fixed. But it is amazing when you see users on Mac forums say something along the lines of
"I fixed the Wifi problem on my iMac and it went away for 5 days but it came back yesterday" and this was before Yosemite ever arrived on the scene.

 

[MagicBoy]

LOL.

Not heard such an unsubstantiated pile of tripe in quite a while. Take your blinkers off and there's a whole lot more to notice.

 

[Jack Parker]

lol.

No. I've always noticed this about Mac.

If you fix a Windows internet connectivity problem. It usually stays fixed. But it is amazing when you see users on Mac forums say something along the lines of
"I fixed the Wifi problem on my iMac and it went away for 5 days but it came back yesterday" and this was before Yosemite ever arrived on the scene.

You do realize, don't you, that you aren't changing anyone's minds or swaying opinions. All you've done is show everyone that you joined the site to be a troll because you have nothing else going on in your life worth your time.

I sincerely pity you. What happened to you in your life to make you this way? I hope this isn't a permanent condition for you or it's a complete waste of a life.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I've been drinking the MS kool-aid lately (and getting increasingly disenfranchised with Apple, talk about a double whammy!), and really like what I see from MS. But OP, you're wrong.

OS X is not - and never has been - good at recovering from bugs. If you have a bug in OS X, either you live with it until Apple sees fit to fix it, or you live with it until Apple sees fit to fix it. There's no "configuration settings" like with Windows registry, where you can tweak this value or that to fix something.

Incidentally, the lack of being able to do anything about bugs and just having to wait for the Apple overlords to fix something is why I'm getting so fed up with Apple - The Wifi menu, for example, is black text on dark gray on my mac, and there's no way for me to fix it by tweaking a registry value... so I can't see my Wifi menu. But it's a "known bug", so I have to wait it out. That's just how Apple bugs are.

Long story short, if you think you fixed a bug in OS X somehow, you didn't. At best, all you did was mask the issue for a short time, say, until a reboot or the like.

 

[boast]

OS X is not - and never has been - good at recovering from bugs. If you have a bug in OS X, either you live with it until Apple sees fit to fix it, or you live with it until Apple sees fit to fix it. There's no "configuration settings" like with Windows registry, where you can tweak this value or that to fix something.

Other than Linux, that is the case with every OS.

OSX has plenty of configuration settings via the terminal: https://github.com/mathiasbynens/dotfiles/blob/master/.osx

 

[tdale]

I switched from windows to OS X a year ago. I like OS X but I see windows as more complete, and stable. Why are there wifi issues one Mac? It's old tech, it doesn't just work. Read the thread on apple quality, many apple users are fed up, windows gets a good rap, it does just work. The old virus, bsod, drivers blah blah is a crock, just apple user emotive ness.

Do I have visions of going back to windows, no, I am OS X for integration, not to get away from windows, but I see myself putting windows 10 on my Mac to get the best of both worlds.

Interesting stat would be windows stability ona gazillion hardware combos, vs apples on an extremely limited combo. Maybe Apple is better, but it's performance on few hardware combos isn't.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think all this thread highlights is that someone's skills are better with one operating system than the other.

Obviously the root cause analysis wasn't performed correctly if the fix magically returns as a fault.

With regards to networking challenges, especially in mixed corporate environments I've found that incomplete certificates on access points and the likes can be a real pain for *nix based systems whilst lovely secure windows just happily accepts them. I've had many a heated discussion with the network engineers and having to proof and demonstrate the crap they configure before they are willing to listen and update their systems inline with the standards specification.

Outside of that I've not really encountered those kind of networking issues.

 

[Ardmanz]

I switched from PC to MAC about a year ago.

I don't regret it at all, I love OSX but it is by far the buggier operating system.

There's not really any excuse for the known bugs which affect lots of people when you only have to design your OS to run with a handful of different hardware.

 

[Thunderboltedge]

I switched from PC to MAC about a year ago.

I don't regret it at all, I love OSX but it is by far the buggier operating system.

There's not really any excuse for the known bugs which affect lots of people when you only have to design your OS to run with a handful of different hardware.

Honestly this has to be taken into consideration.
Me too, I moved to Mac and I am quite surprised to see how many bugs there are around for users.
Probably, as always within topics and threads, you always find someone complaining compared to the one who is happy with it and It does not need to state it.

What it is interesting is that Apple build its OS for quite few models around (actually 3 on the market right now). So I would expect from such a less variety available to the customer a far better experience in terms of OS feedback and problems for users.

At the same time during a shift of a major OS to its new version, it is always normal to find out people getting troubles from the new OS.

 

[r0k]

I have found Yosemite to be the buggiest OSX I have used. On previous versions, I might have to reboot once or twice a year beyond reboots for software updates. On Yosemite, I find myself rebooting almost every other month. Horrible. To an OSX user it's just horrible. But compared to my almost daily rebooting of Windows 7, even Yosemite is heaven.

Then there's windows 7. On my work-issued PC, which is SSD based and a core i5 with 8 GB of RAM, I have come to believe the "Start Windows Normally?" prompt is the normal startup screen. In all fairness I can't blame Microsoft for this. They have greatly improved Windows since Vista and the problems I experience are (probably) largely due to crapware loaded by the company IT guys. Nevertheless, I must differ with the OP who talks about things "staying fixed" on Windows versus OSX. I have found that things stay fixed on my Linux boxes. Always. I have found that things stay fixed on OSX. Always. Back when I used Windows, I found that it would break early and often on my kids' machines. That was largely their fault. It worked fairly reliably on my machine because I didn't download crapware all the time but I remember several of my own "horror stories" involving multi-gigabyte driver downloads followed by "install it over and over and hope for the best" procedures that seemed to rely more on luck than anything else so the premise of this thread seems to be to turn the truth on its head.

I have found that sometimes I must wait for Apple to fix a bug but you know what? I'm not shy about submitting my crash reports to Apple Engineering when the OS offers to do so. I remember bug lists going all the way back to Tiger where bugs I submitted were fixed in the very next point release. No need to call some "certified solution provider". No need to sit on the phone for 45 minutes proving I didn't steal either my computer or my copy of the OS before I could get help. I simply had to click "send to Apple" whenever I had the opportunity. If you are ranting in threads like this about OSX bugs and you haven't been clicking "send to apple" then you might as well be complaining about Obama or about congress when you didn't bother to vote.

Then there is the "dumbing down" trend Apple has been following lately where capabilities are stripped out of everything from mail.app to iphoto to airport utility. Airport Utility got on my nerves so bad I wound up buying an Asus router because it was rated slightly higher than Airport Extreme over at smallnetbuilder. And there's the key. I try to buy what is best at the time I'm shopping whether it's from Microsoft, Apple, Lenovo, Asus or Samsung. I can honestly say that with the exception of my router, I've gotten all the rest of my best in breed gear (iPad, Mac mini, Macbook Pro, iPhone 6) from Apple.

If Apple gear doesn't work best for you then by all means buy something else but posting on an Apple forum alleging that OSX breaks often and breaks again when you fix it strains credibility.

 

[tdale]

I switched from PC to MAC about a year ago.

I don't regret it at all, I love OSX but it is by far the buggier operating system.

There's not really any excuse for the known bugs which affect lots of people when you only have to design your OS to run with a handful of different hardware.

My situation and comments mirror this.

If you compared the bug/issue ratio to the range of hardware components in use, OS X is actually quite poor compared to Windows.

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If Apple gear doesn't work best for you then by all means buy something else but posting on an Apple forum alleging that OSX breaks often and breaks again when you fix it strains credibility.

And whining that Windows breaks all the time is the same, thats bollocks.

 

[komatsu]

Interesting stat would be windows stability ona gazillion hardware combos, vs apples on an extremely limited combo. Maybe Apple is better, but it's performance on few hardware combos isn't.

I was just signing off for the day and I saw your comment and it made me think.

Yes, it is amazing how many people (admins included) don't appreciate this. Windows is amazing what is does dealing with many hardware combos.(...I never thought I would write that comment).

Yes, Apples are fantastic from a end-users point of view. I have users who would never go back to Windows. But, from a techs perspective, Windows really does allow you to get under the hood more.

(And don't worry I've seen crappy bugs in MS products over the years but they are IMHO often easier to troubleshoot via the registry)

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Incidentally, the lack of being able to do anything about bugs and just having to wait for the Apple overlords to fix something is why I'm getting so fed up with Apple

Join the club.

And this exact kind of issue is why I am taking a a turn against Apple. For some Apple problems, on the official Apple forums, there are for example 16 pages of rants from users who NEVER got to the bottom of an OS X problem - all of them waiting in hope for Apple to release a update that might resolve the issue!

As a tech, I like getting under-the-hood to the root cause of the problem but with Apple that is not always possible (even with Terminal commands)

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Reading this thread I feel like I am a weird outlier or something. According to this I should have lots of unresolved bugs and my machine by extension (pardon the pun) should be unusable. Yet somehow I use it day in and out without issue and the last time I restarted mine was when I updated the operating system.

Yet somehow it is bug ridden. Sure all software has bugs in them, I guess none seem to be that important that they affect me

But regards to not being able to get under the hood, sorry but that is just pure ignorance and lack of understanding how this unix based system works. Man you can do anything to it if you are so inclined.