A online university or community college?

[63dot]

The public colleges here in CA have been charging tuition for as long as I know. Maybe it depends on the state you live in.

I know you did HR before. Can I ask what type of industry you screened for and how big your company was?

OK, OK, I gave away my age. You probably consider yourself a veteran, but you don't remember when California schools had no tuition. Mine did not, ha ha, way way back when I guess. We had fees (and extremely nominal) as they called it and when they went up decade after decade, at some point, less than a grand for school all expenses paid became 20 times that. I paid $750 dollars a year, total.

HR was done in a closed system, the U.S. government so screening was done by us govt. slugs.

I did see a lot wrong with government but I had no say, but then no one did and that was the problem. The way we saw things in an HR perspective was hs grad, jr. college grad, college grad, grad school master's, grad school doctorate and we hired based on those and experience, not age/color/sex, and certainly not name of school. Often school was not mentioned, and for reasons pertaining to title vii, the facts pertaining to sex, age, religious affiliation and other stuff was not legal to use in hiring purposes. We kept those records to ourselves for keeping records, but never gave away other information to hiring managers. They had to hire based on the person, not their school, color, sex, age, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation.

In the private sector, name of school probably means a lot more but not in the public sector as much. Many people went through the GS ranks with what was then called correspondence education, and now what is online education.

As much as I have against the backward way Uncle Sam ran things, they were forward thinking in utilizing technology and online schooling. In my department, DoD, many soldiers and contractors had no option and it was simply wrong to let some civilian who had the luxury of being in the states who went to a brick and mortar school stand in the line in front of some poor soul over in Iraq, or stationed elsewhere who may have received their degree piecemeal via the internet.

 

[Liquorpuki]

HR was done in a closed system, the U.S. government so screening was done by us govt. slugs.

I did see a lot wrong with government but I had no say, but then no one did and that was the problem. The way we saw things in an HR perspective was hs grad, jr. college grad, college grad, grad school master's, grad school doctorate and we hired based on those and experience, not age/color/sex, and certainly not name of school. Often school was not mentioned, and for reasons pertaining to title vii, the facts pertaining to sex, age, religious affiliation and other stuff was not legal to use in hiring purposes. We kept those records to ourselves for keeping records, but never gave away other information to hiring managers. They had to hire based on the person, not their school, color, sex, age, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation.

In the private sector, name of school probably means a lot more but not in the public sector as much. Many people went through the GS ranks with what was then called correspondence education, and now what is online education.

As much as I have against the backward way Uncle Sam ran things, they were forward thinking in utilizing technology and online schooling. In my department, DoD, many soldiers and contractors had no option and it was simply wrong to let some civilian who had the luxury of being in the states who went to a brick and mortar school stand in the line in front of some poor soul over in Iraq, or stationed elsewhere who may have received their degree piecemeal via the internet.

I work in the public sector so that makes sense. From experience public sector interviews tend to be more standardized and fair. I've brought my career portfolio to public sector interviews and interviewers told me not to open it up because it wasn't a requirement and no other applicant had one. In private sector interviews though, I've had interviewers thumb through it for a half hour and use it in their hiring decision.

80% of jobs are private sector though and I've seen how school brand recognition here makes a difference. My girlfriend graduated from an Ivy League recently, has no relevant work experience, and gets call backs for interviews regularly. Meanwhile coming out of Devry I was turned down regularly on the basis of being from a second-tier school.

 

[63dot]

I work in the public sector so that makes sense. From experience public sector interviews tend to be more standardized and fair. I've brought my career portfolio to public sector interviews and interviewers told me not to open it up because it wasn't a requirement and no other applicant had one. In private sector interviews though, I've had interviewers thumb through it for a half hour and use it in their hiring decision.

80% of jobs are private sector though and I've seen how school brand recognition here makes a difference. My girlfriend graduated from an Ivy League recently, has no relevant work experience, and gets call backs for interviews regularly. Meanwhile coming out of Devry I was turned down regularly on the basis of being from a second-tier school.

As for the foot in the door, the Ivy League, or strong college helps. A year to eighteen months into your field, it's how you do that will determine the rest of your career.

My field, IT, is especially merit based, and what you can do will make a difference a week into your job. All the Harvards of the world won't impress in San Jose area when you have non college grads Steve, Steve, Bill, Paul, Mike, Larry, and many others with big companies or secondary presences here and having established a do or die attitude here in anything high tech. If anything, IT is like a professional sport and you are only as good as your most recent work. That being said, college is not a bad thing in IT, but it may not help all that much.

My friend works for a fairly successful POS development company that actively recruits people who are great programmers. As a rule of thumb, they found people with CS degrees just can't cut the work. But true geeks, most of who don't have a degree (or if they do, they studied something other than CS) are really great programmers for the most part and are adept in relevant languages and not full of useless (in the working world with deadlines and customers) information and ivory tower stuff. If somebody did study CS and wants to get into the field, they have better get up to speed on what people do in the working world, and not just what you need to know to get good grades and graduate. A lot of that could be also said of IT network administrators who should learn under somebody who knows (through experience) and use that knowledge as opposed to college tests about CS and IT and certification exams.

 

[darkplanets]

I know the OP has already decided (awhile ago), but I'm going to reply in hopes that someone else who's reading this thread with the same question can come to a better informed decision.

I am heavily involved in the (life) sciences. Subsequently my advice lies solely in the purview of this general area. Accordingly, if you want to be taken seriously at all, do not ever take an online degree. Community college is a last resort, and should only be used for undergrad education (at a maximum)-- ideally use it as a springboard to transfer to a better school. Hands on experience is critical-- an online college cannot provide this. Neither can a community college (in most areas); the research done therein (if any at all) is usually so basic due to lack of equipment and funding constraints that it's usually not worth your time. I have seen many graduate students who come from community colleges (or small colleges) do absolutely horrible in graduate school due to a poor education and even less lab experience. If you're in the (life) sciences and decide to not pursue a graduate degree and want to only go to a community college... don't bother.

Just my two cents.

 

[acidfast7]

IT people notoriously don't care about educational background, they usually care about talent. However, with the recent economic downturn, they can pay the same amount of money and get talent and a proper educational background. Outside of IT, hiring managers are much less forgiving.

My honest opinion is that you should actually go the four-year university from the beginning as it will offer much more than a community college, especially in anything technical.

Furthermore, your goal of attending tertiary education is not completion of coursework, unless it leads to a proper certification (e.g. some engineering or nursing tracks), but rather is to develop a particular skillset that is beneficial to an employer.

This is not often accomplished in the classroom. It's usually accomplished in extracurricular activities, internships and job placement opportunities, which are much better at a four-year university.

However, to make the four-year-university worth the extra cost, one has to take advantage of it from day one, which most students don't do, because they think they're present to complete coursework and earn a degree.

In my field, biochemistry, working in a real lab (outside of coursework) from day one of uni, is so advantageous, that it's easily worth the extra 20-40k spent on education.

YMMV.

 

[strider42]

Hmm. I may be wrong about having to graduate from the community college and then transferring to the University of Utah. See I thought I would have to do two years full time to get my Associate degree at the community college and then after I graduate apply to the University of Utah. That's why I thought 6 years to get a Bachelor degree.

I'm still torn not sure what to do. I do like the prospect of job opportunities either from fellow students or professors. I can't work my warehouse job all my life.

Community college all the way unless the online program is actually from a well known, respected and reputable college. Communuity college plus a tranferring will be 4 years if you stay on track. All community colelge does si replace the first two years.

I finished community college in 1.5 years (worked my butt of to do that, but two years is very reasonable), transferred to cal and finished up my last two years there. Guess what goes on my resume: just that I got a degree from Cal. You don't have to get an associates degree (although the only difference for me was taking a couple of a gym classes, so i went ahead and did it anyway). if you go to an online college, all you can put on your resume is that university, which probalby has a nothing reputation or maybe worse (personally, if I saw a degree from univeristy of phoenix, it doesn't reflect well on that persons reputation because they are basically a diploma mill and everyone knows it)

Fun fact, i was even able to get some of my community colelge courses to transfer as upper division, so I was well ahead of the game when I transferred in.

You need to see a counselor at the community college and talk to them. It sounds like you need to know what the transfer requirements are to the four year schools you would be interested in. But seriously, online universities are mostly crap that future employers won't look on favorably compared to other applicants.

 

[VulchR]

Just adding to the chorus: I am a lecturer at a traditional 4-year university in Scotland. There is a reason why lectures, tutorials and lab practicals have been around in one form or another for hundreds of years: they work. Online universities can also be excellent (I have considerable respect for the lecturing quality of the UK's Open University), but the experience can be very uneven. If you get a poor online tutor it is very difficult to get better help, whereas on a traditional campus you'd just find another member of the faculty to answer your questions.

The UK government keeps trying to push 'technological solutions' to university teaching and learning, and while they have their place, face-to-face interaction is much better than distance learning. Indeed, living and working in academic community where there are social and educational interactions outside of lectures adds something you just can't get very easily with online forums or Skype.

Having said all of this, I am appalled that anybody would dismiss any degree when interviewing job applicants. That's just stupid corporate management, and acting on prejudice is hardly going to result in getting the best candidate for a given job. I take a lot of crap for working in the public sector these days, but when I see what goes on in the private sector I shudder with apprehension. No wonder the economy is tanking.

 

[ag3nt47]

I would definitely recommend a community college as opposed to online classes. I took some online classes while at ITT Tech, and found them to be incredibly useless. It was a log in at your own pace type of thing, and it was very different not knowing anyone that was in your "class", whereas being in a classroom, you may not know everyone in there, but you can at least share ideas and discuss things. I'm not sure how employers feel about "I got a degree online" in an interview, and while it does show that the student put forth the effort to start a complete a program in order to get a degree, I'm sure many hiring managers would argue that it's not the same. If I were you, I'd try the community college route first, and then find a school that you might want to pursue after completing community college, and maybe look into doing a hybrid type semester, with some classes in house and some online. When I took online classes, it was so hard not being able to go to someone's office and ask them a question immediately. I had to send emails to the "instructor" and it would sometimes be 2-3 days before he / she replied.

 

[MadMiller20]

Community College is a great option, but I am surprised to see the lack of support for online degrees. Yes, there are a lot of degree mills and phony programs out there but, an accredited online college can offer you as many opportunities as a physical college can. You can even get an online degree from schools that have campuses without ever going on campus. Here is some information about getting an online degree and what you need to know about it. The advantages to going to school online are many. You can work, study and learn at your own pace, and you can save money. I hope this helps a bit. Good luck with your decision!

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Community college; get up from behind the screen and explore as much of the tangible world as possible.

Community college systems are affordable, reputable, and provide social interaction that might prove valuable in the job market. You can always do online learning later in life, without much inconvenience.

 

[eric/]

Between the two, community college. Online degrees and for-profit schools are garbage.

 

[lwood1]

Community

 

[felixgun]

A friend of mine went to a local CC then transfered to the state university two years later... a majority of their classes transferred over and they graduated right at 4 years. They did it because it was cheaper to do the CC instead of the state university for the same exact classes. I'd definitely do this route if I were you.

 

[phas3]

As someone who has been to a community college (South Hills Business School), a regular college (Pennsylvania State University), and an online college (DeVry, but its not 100% online, they have physical campuses too). I'll give you the insight on each:

First, let me say the advice below is subject to change based on your degree requirements.

Second, make sure ANY school you choose is fully accredited.

Now, a community college (at least the one I went to) tends to feel like high school. They often offer 2 year degree programs and should be used more as a stepping stone rather than a final destination. A popular thing to do is get as many pre-requisites out of the way at a community college as you can (due to cost) and then transfer the credits to a bigger college. The classes you take in them usually will count towards math, english, art, and computer credits in a larger college. Do not expect anything directly degree related (such as in my case, computer programming) to transfer to your main colleges degree program.

Sometimes community colleges will move at a slow pace since many "adult learners" are present and some may not have basic computer skills and such and could potentially slow class down. This happened to me where I went in our programming classes. I spent a year at the community college listed above only to find out the school lied about their accredidation (literally, in which I immediately dropped out and went on to join the military.)

Next comes regular college:

A regular college is good, but time consuming due to having to work your
work schedule around class schedule. Also, just like the community college your class may be held up due to slower students, it happened to me in a C++ class.

Regular college has its good and bad points. There is the social aspect of school but that is a double edged sword for some people. When I went there I was above my peers due to previous experience in the fields of study I was in and I felt like I was being dragged down by class. Group work was often frustrating and working full time, as well as going to school full time can take its toll. If you work full time, or have a busy schedule really think long and hard before you decide to attend a traditional college.

Some of the good things about a traditional college is being able to ask the professor things one on one instantly, without having to wait for a response. Traditional college, like community colleges will tend to hand hold you more when it comes to assignments and is a good choice for people who have a hard time with self-motivation and school work.

That being said if you have a full time job or a busy schedule think long and hard about a traditional college first. Not to mention most traditional colleges have online options, I know Penn State does, as do many others. Even Harvard. I spent two years at Penn State but left because I felt the degree program I was in was going to slow, and also because I took a job working overseas and obviously could not attend class. A few of my classes were not available using Penn States World Campus (their online classes) so I was unable to complete my degree at Penn State.

That brings me to my last point, online schools. Also, let me say that my online school is also a regular school, a strictly online school may be a bit different.

Online schools are a different animal, and most people do not understand how online school really works (as apparent in this thread). What I am about to say may not hold true for every school, but it holds true for many of them, not just mine (as I have co-workers who attend different online schools and have a class schedule similar to mine).

Online schools generally are NOT learn at your own pace. Sure, there is no set class time but often there are very strict deadlines to accomplish things. The school I go to has a deadline of wednesday for class participation and each week work, LOTS of work, is due.

Online schools are usually a ton more work then a regular campus. Not only do you have to do a great amount of research, but if you run into a problem with an assignment you may not be able to get an instant response. This forces you to budget time very wisely and use every available resource to get your work done, and there is generally a ton of work. I spend right now between 60 - 100 hours a week on school work. I've never spent less that 30 hours on school work. (The only reason I'm on mac rumors is because my lighting for my game level is baking so I can't do much until its done). Last semester I in one week between two classes I had to read 550 pages, write two papers, do two quizzes, a powerpoint presentation, and write a framework for a game engine using C++, OpenGL, and SDL. Thats a ton of work for one week.

Online schools require a ton of self motivation. Do not expect hand holding on an online school. You are generally given the material, the assignments, and told to get it done by a deadline. You will do a lot of work, you will be frustrated, you will have a ton of reading, and a ton of work to do each week. Its hard.

Your peers will most likely be idiots. Yep. Idiots. Its sad but true. Many people jump into online school and they shouldn't. Think of an online school as just being there to give you a piece of paper, and you are responsible for most of your own learning and practice. In my classes I am often the only person who knows what they are really doing and I end up doing almost all of the work. Unfortunately no matter how much I beg the professors to work solo, the answer is always a no. According to the experiences of my co-workers and friends who go online though I am the only one who is running into this issue so it may not affect you at all.

Online schools are not "easy to cheat on". If your online school is halfway descent most of your work will be project based. Sure there may be a test here and there but expect the answers to be engineered in such a way that google and open notes and open books will not help you. (If you don't know the material you will not find it before the test is up.)Not to mention most quiz questions tend to be essays. Also most work is project based to prevent cheating, and as any other school, cheaters are generally expelled. Also, expect the projects to be pretty big. (Right now I have to make a full level of a networked game in 8 weeks. Anyone in the programming forum can tell you thats an insane amount of work. )

Expect a ton of reading for an online school. Between two classes I usually have about 350 - 400 pages of reading per week, sometimes it goes well over that.

Like I said, its not just my school that operates like this, me and my co-workers all run into the exact same scenarios. Online school is hard and its a ton of work. Its not for everyone. The only reason I would recommend online school is if:

1. The school has campuses in addition to online and you can switch between the two anytime. Also most professors for online school teach at regular universities, make sure your school does that too.

2. You already know what you are doing for the most part and plan on going to school for the piece of paper.

3. You are entering a field where you can show a portfolio of your work since some people who don't know a thing about online school think its this horrid thing and anyone coming out of it is uneducated. Sure its true some students aren't the brightest (just like any school), but there are many who are already professionals or are very driven and just need that degree and can't give up our jobs to go to a traditional school.

4. You are VERY self motivated and resourceful. If you need a professor to make you learn, online is not for you. I've been going online for 4 years, working a full time job in the IT field the whole time.

Out of all the schools, I prefer online school the most. Its hellish, it really is but I like to be able to do my classwork, and then augment my learning with a ton of self study. I also love to study quietly, in the middle of the night which I couldn't do at a regular campus.

Anyway, I hope that cleared up some stuff for you.





No offense but thats a terrible way to hire. You probably tossed a lot of great talent away because you judged someone based on where they went to school. I know many people who have degrees from so-called "great schools" but are just terrible work ethic and knowledge wise, and I also know some brilliant people who are great in the IT field who make 6 figures a year and have only a high school diploma (one only has a GED).

Just remember many people have no other choice but to go online because they have a full time career that they are juggling in addition to going to school. Thats a lot of work and it takes a lot of dedication to do something like that.

Thank you for writing this, I was going to describe my experience at UoP so far but you pretty much said it all. I do however am thinking about transferring to another brick and mortar school that is offering distance learning. Most people think online colleges are easy and hold no credibility on paper. Well if more people understood what you actually have to do in an online college they would see that the work we put in is twice as much as the people that attend regular college campuses.

Nowadays more and more of the brick and mortar colleges out there are creating their own distance learning degree programs.

 

[eric/]

Thank you for writing this, I was going to describe my experience at UoP so far but you pretty much said it all. I do however am thinking about transferring to another brick and mortar school that is offering distance learning. Most people think online colleges are easy and hold no credibility on paper. Well if more people understood what you actually have to do in an online college they would see that the work we put in is twice as much as the people that attend regular college campuses.

Nowadays more and more of the brick and mortar colleges out there are creating their own distance learning degree programs.

The work you put in is twice as much as regular college campuses? How do you figure that?

 

[moiseskline]

An online degree could work for you if you’re a self-learner and can prioritize well. It’s easy to slack off when studying online so I’d suggest you create a study schedule and stick to it. I plan on pursuing an online degree myself and I’m currently reviewing Independence University. Independence University is accredited by the Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges (ACCSC) recognized by the U.S. Department of Education so I feel confident about the quality of education provided by them.

 

[chrono1081]

The work you put in is twice as much as regular college campuses? How do you figure that?

Its hard to explain but it is about twice the work (I went to two brick and mortar schools before online school).

Part of it is the reading. I never had to read 400 pages per week between two classes, write a 35+ APA paper, create a full prototype level of a game with design document, pitch document, technical document and asset list, take two quizzes, post a minimum of three times in a forum, hold a group meeting discussing a class project, and create 4 fully finished 3D models for a game level all in one week between two classes at a brick and mortar school but that was the norm my last two years of online school. Every week had a ridiculous amount of work to do. (Too much in my opinion, it got in the way of learning and digesting the information).

 

[eric/]

Its hard to explain but it is about twice the work (I went to two brick and mortar schools before online school).

Part of it is the reading. I never had to read 400 pages per week between two classes, write a 35+ APA paper, create a full prototype level of a game with design document, pitch document, technical document and asset list, take two quizzes, post a minimum of three times in a forum, hold a group meeting discussing a class project, and create 4 fully finished 3D models for a game level all in one week between two classes at a brick and mortar school but that was the norm my last two years of online school. Every week had a ridiculous amount of work to do. (Too much in my opinion, it got in the way of learning and digesting the information).

And your anecdotal experience proves what exactly?

Because to be fair, people I know that have done online school have had the exact opposite experience. Far easier grading and a lot less work load.