You seriously think there will be USB 2 printers???!!! OMFG, seriously -- what are you on?? How many FireWire printers are there on the market at the moment?????
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A sign of no USB 2.0 in new Power Macs?
- Thread starter TyleRomeo
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I wouldn't be too sure about that. This has yet to be seen. While I hope this happens, I wouldn't bet heavily on it.
Well if you're talking in terms of 4mb, then maybe that's part of the problem. Instead imagine PC venders sticking with USB2, and thus cameras using USB2. It's not to hard to imagine things turning out this way, and now imagine what you'd be doing while you're transferring the contents of a 5GB MicroDrive with a Mac that only has USB1.1 because Apple refused to accept a standard that the rest of the industry did. I'm using 256MB cards now and find it annoying how slow it is.
About as many as there are FireWire digital still cameras. Will be printers...There are already USB2 printers from Lexmark and HP (maybe others?) Sorry guys, USB2 is here now and its making inroads. As superior as FireWire is, PC venders are looking at cutting costs and some/many will see only putting USB2 ports on their machines as the way to do it instead of FireWire *and* USB2. There are already CD Burners, DVD burners, hard drives etc... which are using USB2. As superior as FireWire is, getting rid of USB altogether on Macs would be really stupid, and not upgrading USB to 2 for the sake of promoting FireWire would only result in Apple producing products that were less compatible with 3rd party products. Apple is in the hardware/software business, not the standards business
My guess is that USB2 will be in Macs before the end of the year. It's really just a matter of Apple using up its current inventory of parts and coinciding with new product.
Which models??? I just looked at what HP has listed on their site, and found NO USB 2 mentioned in ANY of their entry-level, mid-range, or direct-photo printers. Some of them do NOT have Mac compatibility, so I will have to assume you didn't consider them (they also show USB, not USB 2). I also looked at the higher numbered Lexmark inkjet printers, and all of them show 'Standard USB' and 'USB - Lexmark recommends a V1.0 Compliant Cable'.
Again, post up some printer model numbers to back up your statement. I am fairly certain that Epson supports USB 1.1 in their current printers. I did see one from Lexmark that has an ethernet option, and I know you can do that with some Epson printers. Personally, that makes more sense to me. I would rather see printers go ethernet, as well as USB 1.x then USB 2.
In the past, printer companies like to not force new technology on customers. Many printers (if not all) still have a parallel port on them. Even networked printers (such as the HP5000 laser printer) still have the parallel port on them.
Lexmark E210, Z13, Z23, Z33
HP: PNHPLJ3300MP, PNHPLJ3320MP, PNHPLJ3320N, PNHPLJ3330
I too would much rather see ethernet. Ideally I'd like to see FireWire for drives and cameras, USB for keyboards, mice, cheap printers, and lowend gadgety thingies, ethernet for slightly more than cheap printers as well as more expensive models. Nonetheless USB2 has a lot of Intel behind it, and it would be foolish for Apple to sacrifice 3rd party compatibility or give the perception "USB on Macs suck" just to influence FireWire as a standard.
Apple is in the hardware/software business. They are not going to make nearly as much money with FireWire succeeding as they would by increasing market share/sales by providing products that are superior, or at least perceived as being superior by including ports which provide compatibility. Go to a computer shop that sells USB2 CD burners and see how on the package it says that it burns at 4x on Macs with USB1.1 as opposed to 32X for PCs with USB2. Now of course you and I would buy a FireWire burner at 40x, but that's not the message everyone would get all the time
What forcing of new technology. Whatever the product is, make it USB2 instead of USB1.1 and the consumer would not be impacted negatively at all. All USB1.1 stuff would still work (at 1.1 speeds). Furthermore, there's no inherent cost advantage to using USB1.1 versus USB2.
Apple should not push, promote, or bless USB2 in any way, but they should start including it soon...ideally at the same time as FireWire 2.
BTW: a lot of what's being said about USB2 is similar to FireWire 2. 800Mbs sounds great, but you're not going to be importing DV any faster now are you? Your burners are still going to be maxed at 40x or whatever they mechanically can handle, and there are really no FireWire drives, but rather IDE drives in FireWire cases, the IDE to FireWire bridge tends to be the bottleneck. Of course we all have faith that we'll see devices take advantage of FireWire 2, but how is this any different from USB2?
All the printers you listed there for Lexmark (E210, Z13, Z23, Z33) are showing either "Standard USB" (which is 1.1 not 2.0) or "USB - Lexmark recommends a V1.0 Compliant Cable" which is NOT the same as 2.0.
As for the HP printers... the 3300, 3320 (found under the multi-function devices) lists "Connectivity, Std. USB 1.1, IEEE 1284-B bidirectional parallel "
Both lists of printers are only showing USB Standard or 1.0/1.1. Nowhere are they listing USB 2.0 connectivity.
As far as trying to use a USB 2.0 device on a system with USB 1.1... all the devices I found that are USB 2.0 show "USB 2.0 host needed for USB 2.0 performance" which makes sense.
I can see devices such as hard drives and scanners that actually benefit from using USB 2, but not printers. I have a scanner (Epson Perfection 2450 Photo) with BOTH USB 2 and FireWire ports on it. I purchased it because it has FireWire, I couldn't care less about the USB port. If you look at the spec's it actually states (in plain language) "Interface USB 2.0 and FireWire (IEEE 1394)"
Until the printers you mentioned (or any others you find) show USB 2.0 for an interface assume that it is USB 1.1 (not 2.0).
Eventually printers could use USB 2.0, but they are not there yet.
As for the HP printers... the 3300, 3320 (found under the multi-function devices) lists "Connectivity, Std. USB 1.1, IEEE 1284-B bidirectional parallel "
Both lists of printers are only showing USB Standard or 1.0/1.1. Nowhere are they listing USB 2.0 connectivity.
As far as trying to use a USB 2.0 device on a system with USB 1.1... all the devices I found that are USB 2.0 show "USB 2.0 host needed for USB 2.0 performance" which makes sense.
I can see devices such as hard drives and scanners that actually benefit from using USB 2, but not printers. I have a scanner (Epson Perfection 2450 Photo) with BOTH USB 2 and FireWire ports on it. I purchased it because it has FireWire, I couldn't care less about the USB port. If you look at the spec's it actually states (in plain language) "Interface USB 2.0 and FireWire (IEEE 1394)"
Until the printers you mentioned (or any others you find) show USB 2.0 for an interface assume that it is USB 1.1 (not 2.0).
Eventually printers could use USB 2.0, but they are not there yet.
Well I stand corrected, though my mistake was not that I didn't understand that 1<>2, but rather I searched several sites that sold printers and listed those above as "USB 2.0". I wouldn't be surprised if the specs changed or if the vendor Website was incorrect...it wouldn't be the first time.
this is hilarious...
guys, thanks for making it so fun... hahaha... *wipes off tear*
irmongoose
P.S. Please, continue!
guys, thanks for making it so fun... hahaha... *wipes off tear*
irmongoose
P.S. Please, continue!
USB 2.0 printers ?
Well, I don't know about them, but they sure sell the adequate cables at HP...
http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/...code=C6518A&aoid=7222&script_name=product.cgi
Well, I don't know about them, but they sure sell the adequate cables at HP...
http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/...code=C6518A&aoid=7222&script_name=product.cgi
Listen, some of you need to **** already! Now, I am not talking about those who are posting about what they know, what they honestly think, or what they have heard of, but those who are trying to start flame wars for no reason! Maybe some of us have some reasonable thoughts about what they think may happen. But even if they sound absourd, at least try to respect it. Now I am not trying to kiss up to anyone here, but I am playing moderator. This discussion should be about USB 2.0 yes/no and not what type of pot mites sniff or smoke!
As far as I know, I last checked (someplace) and it turned out that USB 2.0 had 480Mbps output, while Firewire (1) had 400Mbps. And I am pretty sure that USB 2.0 would sound reasonable on computers if certain products have USB 2.0 on them (CD-RWs especially) and you need the extra firewire ports for an external Hard Drive, some camcorder, or such. I feel that USB 2.0 can come in handy with those who are sick and tired of upgrade cards, installing drivers for those cards, or for those who have computers with one FW port and need more, such as the iBook and, if I am not mistaken the Powerbook. Some people need the extra room and the extra ports. And since USB 1.x is too slow for many people (I would assume) switching to USB 2.0 would be acceptable. All that needs to be done is to convert companies/products that use USB 1.1 to use USB 2.0 and there would be no problem with USB 2.0.
Again, I do not mean to insult anyone in particular, but try to keep this discussion quiet. Otherwise, there will be too many flame wars on the forums and all that people will see is insults.
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Any time is a great time for iPod.
As far as I know, I last checked (someplace) and it turned out that USB 2.0 had 480Mbps output, while Firewire (1) had 400Mbps. And I am pretty sure that USB 2.0 would sound reasonable on computers if certain products have USB 2.0 on them (CD-RWs especially) and you need the extra firewire ports for an external Hard Drive, some camcorder, or such. I feel that USB 2.0 can come in handy with those who are sick and tired of upgrade cards, installing drivers for those cards, or for those who have computers with one FW port and need more, such as the iBook and, if I am not mistaken the Powerbook. Some people need the extra room and the extra ports. And since USB 1.x is too slow for many people (I would assume) switching to USB 2.0 would be acceptable. All that needs to be done is to convert companies/products that use USB 1.1 to use USB 2.0 and there would be no problem with USB 2.0.
Again, I do not mean to insult anyone in particular, but try to keep this discussion quiet. Otherwise, there will be too many flame wars on the forums and all that people will see is insults.
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Any time is a great time for iPod.
Chill out Cobra....
It was posted before (not in this thread) that even though USB 2.0 claims to have a speed of 480Mb/sec the reality is that it is significantly slower. Thus slower then FireWire 1 is.
You can add USB 2 PCI cards to just about any system out there, for when you really can't live without it (X years from now, if ever). If it comes down to it, and I really 'must have it' for my new TiBook I know that there are PCMCIA cards out that will let me have it. Granted they only work (optimally) under OS X, and function as USB 1.1 under OS 9.x.
I was only pointing out that there are not any printers that offer USB 2... There are other devices that would benefit from higher bandwidth between the computer and device that do offer it, I have one such item in my scanner. I did NOT get the scanner because of USB 2 being on it, rather because of it having FireWire and the high resolution, low price tag.
It was posted before (not in this thread) that even though USB 2.0 claims to have a speed of 480Mb/sec the reality is that it is significantly slower. Thus slower then FireWire 1 is.
You can add USB 2 PCI cards to just about any system out there, for when you really can't live without it (X years from now, if ever). If it comes down to it, and I really 'must have it' for my new TiBook I know that there are PCMCIA cards out that will let me have it. Granted they only work (optimally) under OS X, and function as USB 1.1 under OS 9.x.
I was only pointing out that there are not any printers that offer USB 2... There are other devices that would benefit from higher bandwidth between the computer and device that do offer it, I have one such item in my scanner. I did NOT get the scanner because of USB 2 being on it, rather because of it having FireWire and the high resolution, low price tag.
Lately, I have seen products (let's say, CD-RWs) with the same functionality, software, everything, except for the ports. I noticed that the product with the Firewire port turned out more expensive than the USB 2.0 port model. I have noticed this because I sometimes look for deatils in MacConnection catalogs. So I am not surprised that USB 2.0 is cheaper than Firewire. Why exactly would this be? Just wondering.
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Any time is a great time for iPod.
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Any time is a great time for iPod.
It could be because they are not selling as well, and they want to clear out inventory (happens all the time with computer games, a less popular game will drop in price long before one that is selling better). That could also have to do with the device maker. Back when I was looking to get a new burner, I noticed that the FireWire and USB 2 drives were pretty much in line with each other for prices. The ones that came out as being more money are typically from LaCie because they have both connections on them (USB and FireWire).
Personally, I prefer to use FireWire devices for any kind of storage or high bandwidth transfer. Input devices are USB because you don't have much choice in the matter. I slapped my printer onto the network, so it doesn't matter what the connection is there.
Personally, I prefer to use FireWire devices for any kind of storage or high bandwidth transfer. Input devices are USB because you don't have much choice in the matter. I slapped my printer onto the network, so it doesn't matter what the connection is there.
How difficult/expensive was that to do? I know my HP can be converted via a dongle of some sort...
I picked up the external print server from Epson (about $160 from their online store which was the cheapest), since it is an Epson printer, plugged it into the parallel port, did some minor configuring and it was all set. Since I have the C80, I downloaded the drivers for the C80N, which is what I turned the printer into. The drivers are for OS X, as well as windblows (so I can print from the game peecee).
I think, from start to finish, including making all the connections, and snaking wires, it might have taken ten minutes (including downloading and installing the drivers onto my TiBook).
I like it much, much better then using the USB cable, since I can now print from anywhere, and any computer. I no longer need the 15' USB cable for printing, and have to be careful where I put the laptop (so that I don't go outside of the cable's reach).
OMG this tread is still ongoing.
guys king cobra is right, its everyone's opinion about future occurances. who know's what USB 2.0 will be used for and how popular it will get. but i'm saying that five years down the line there just might be a few USB 2.0 products out there that I would like to use with my mac and I would enjoy having it built in instead of spending more time and money installing PCI cards. I know 5 years since USB 1.1 came out it has found it own PC market.
and I love firewire and firewire 2 (giagawire) or whatever you want to call it but apple please try to include USB 2.0 in your new PMs for us that want it built in and for those of you out there that are so pro-firewire can clog your USB ports with gum for all i care.
I want my USB 2.0 for the sake of just having it
guys king cobra is right, its everyone's opinion about future occurances. who know's what USB 2.0 will be used for and how popular it will get. but i'm saying that five years down the line there just might be a few USB 2.0 products out there that I would like to use with my mac and I would enjoy having it built in instead of spending more time and money installing PCI cards. I know 5 years since USB 1.1 came out it has found it own PC market.
and I love firewire and firewire 2 (giagawire) or whatever you want to call it but apple please try to include USB 2.0 in your new PMs for us that want it built in and for those of you out there that are so pro-firewire can clog your USB ports with gum for all i care.
I want my USB 2.0 for the sake of just having it
TyleRomeo, you are STILL expecting a system to have things that you MIGHT need five years down the road. Get real. Use one of the PCI slots and add USB 2 or whatever the f*ck you THINK you MIGHT need later when you want. Don't expect Apple to include every new technology inside the tower just because one cheap pr*ck thinks it should be in there. If you have that large a hard-on for USB 2, then just add the card and shut the F up.
Here we go again, round 2.
The contestants are: TyleRomeo and Alphatech.
Just before the rematch goes underway, I would like to inform TyleRomeo that don't expect everything to be your way. If Apple does not integrate USB 2.0 you just can't keep bytchin' about the lack of something you can add on yourself.
Gentlemen, start your flamewars!
Man, I like using other smilies...
Just a quick note before we continue the match, there might be interference from Arn, resulting in this thread being closed, so keep it at a low tone, guys.
__________________
Any time is a great time for iPod.
The contestants are: TyleRomeo and Alphatech.
Just before the rematch goes underway, I would like to inform TyleRomeo that don't expect everything to be your way. If Apple does not integrate USB 2.0 you just can't keep bytchin' about the lack of something you can add on yourself.
Gentlemen, start your flamewars!
Man, I like using other smilies...
Just a quick note before we continue the match, there might be interference from Arn, resulting in this thread being closed, so keep it at a low tone, guys.
__________________
Any time is a great time for iPod.