A smart decision for Apple w/ their new displays...

[JFreak]

one more thing about dvi connector that has been neglected so far... hasn't anyone thought that it's a hybrid connector that carries both digital and analog signals in it (that's the reason there are passive dvi-vga adapters available), and in the pc world most of the dvi-monitors are in fact analog devices in digital disguise? if there are both dvi and vga connectors in the back it is almost surely an analog monitor and not a full-digital one.

but apple makes only full digital monitors. i just hope in the next monitor revision apple gets rid of 4:3 ratio and makes only widescreen models offering us a cheap (?) 17"-wide instead of 17"-square in the low end of the line.

adc rocks. it would be fun to see for example sony adopting it...

 

[Bigheadache]

in the pc world most of the dvi-monitors are in fact analog devices in digital disguise? if there are both dvi and vga connectors in the back it is almost surely an analog monitor and not a full-digital one.

No offence, but thats a ridiculous notion. All DVI LCDs are digital. Flat panels by nature are digital devices since each transistor in each pixel is a simple on/off device. There is no such thing as an "analog" flat panel. If it has a VGA it just means it has some sort of converter built in.

 

[Rincewind42]

No offence, but thats a ridiculous notion. All DVI LCDs are digital. Flat panels by nature are digital devices since each transistor in each pixel is a simple on/off device. There is no such thing as an "analog" flat panel. If it has a VGA it just means it has some sort of converter built in.

That's the thing though, often to make the design uncomplicated if it supports both DVI & VGA it will take the analog DVI signal and pipe it through the A/D converter. This practice is probably lessened as DVI has gotten more popular, but if the LCD panel requires a DVI-I connector (the variant that carries an analog signal) then you can probably bet that it does this.

 

[spaceballl]

only the OLD (multiple years old) LCDs w/ DVI ports converted to analog. Anything within the past two years handles the digital/analog signals separately.

 

[switchedanhappy]

I'm a switcher, and I love my ADC. I think that it's shameful to have an apple display hooked up to a dell or compaq. the people at apple would probably want to keep the displays inside the mac circle, but anything for profit, right? maybe they should make pc versions and mac versions like they did with the ipod for a short time. maybe the problem is that pc's haven't picked up ADC yet!

 

[jsw]

if Apple displays didn't use ADC, I would have never bought one. The whole point of ADC is to reduce uneccesary clutter. One cable to the back of my computer is far nicer than a DVI cord, AC cord with a big lump (aka power brick) attached to the end as well as the need to buy another PCI card for USB ports...

i'm just having trouble imagining the reason nobody is adopting the ADC port (oh yeah, it'd be admitting DVI is garbage).

Well, DVI isn't garbage, it's just not the complete package ADC is...

Anyway, yes, as far as clutter is concerned, the one thing which helped me to convince the wife to let me buy the G5 (yes, singles, in a marriage there's usually a negotiation when that much $$ is involved), is the fact that it is so neat:

• one power cord to plug in the G5
• one cable from the monitor to the G5

That's it. The mouse and keyboard are wireless. I use AirPort Extreme. I have the G5 out in the open, and no aesthetic complaints.

Personally, I'm a BIG fan of ADC.

 

[jxyama]

ADC is a very good and elegant idea in principle. but considering not even all Mac products carry that connector, i think their displays should be made to appeal to more people, more specifically, to PB users, perhaps.

right now, apple displays are pretty "exclusive" to PM users. it's almost as if display would be part of an AIO PM solution... if someone decides to get rid of a PM and purchase a PB instead, the apple display he owns can't be used without an adapter even though they are all apple products!

this has happened already - apple used to have an older version of ADC connector before. it was proprietary and went bust.

if apple is going to continue to sell displays as a separate and independent (i.e. not as "PM accessory") product, i think customers will be best served if they made it functional (i.e. not requiring adapters) to as many as possible.

i think it's not unreasonable for apple to put a DVI port (along with an ADC port) and bundle a power supply with its displays at all.

 

[rueyeet]

The whole question would be moot for Powerbook owners if Apple would either put an ADC port on the Powerbooks, or include the adapter in the box. I don't understand why they make laptops with DVI connectors if they don't sell even a single DVI monitor.

Basically, the current setup amounts to charging Powerbook owners an extra $100 for an Apple display. With the percentage of Mac sales that are laptops, perhaps it's time to rethink this.

Oh, and ADC does nothing to reduce clutter if I have to use an adapter brick with multiple wires spewing from it. At that point, I might as well be using DVI.

 

[Rincewind42]

ADC is a very good and elegant idea in principle. but considering not even all Mac products carry that connector, i think their displays should be made to appeal to more people, more specifically, to PB users, perhaps.

right now, apple displays are pretty "exclusive" to PM users. it's almost as if display would be part of an AIO PM solution... if someone decides to get rid of a PM and purchase a PB instead, the apple display he owns can't be used without an adapter even though they are all apple products!

Well of course, mostly PowerMac users buy them . But I've already given my reasoning behind this anyway so I'll leave this be...

this has happened already - apple used to have an older version of ADC connector before. it was proprietary and went bust.

Which connector are you talking about called ADC? The current one is the only one I know of. Apple used to use a different VGA-style port in the old days, but that wasn't proprietary either - Apple thought the industry would zig and instead zagged and thus Apple got stuck with a non-compatible connector.

if apple is going to continue to sell displays as a separate and independent (i.e. not as "PM accessory") product, i think customers will be best served if they made it functional (i.e. not requiring adapters) to as many as possible.

i think it's not unreasonable for apple to put a DVI port (along with an ADC port) and bundle a power supply with its displays at all.

Again, we come back to increasing prices across the board to satisfy people who aren't the primary target of the product. Since most purchasers won't care about the power supply (or worse get confused about why they have it in the first place) you might as well bundle it as an optional accessory. Oh wait, that's what we have now...

 

[jaw04005]

$99 adapter, but lets analyze this a little.

Everyone wants to go back to DVI so that they don't have to buy an adapter to use with their non-ADC computer. However, if Apple does go back to DVI, they will have to ship a power adapter with every monitor again. How much do you think that is going to cost (certainly ain't free). Basically the majority of buyers don't need this because of ADC, thus Apple can save money on this (and presumably pass the savings on to you). The few that do need it buy the adapter for $99. Presumably if each display had an adapter with it, they would cost less but then everyone if they needed it or not would have to pay for it. And then the displays would likely be less elegant (because why have ADC if you ship DVI & Power supply - what ADC takes over for - in the box).

So yea, PC users may come by and want to buy one of the displays. But if they do (and likely they are few of them) they can buy the $99 adapter too. Same for non-Power Mac owners, cuz lets get real here, if you don't own a Power Mac, you most likely don't need to buy a display (and most likely won't). Those who do own a Power Mac can get a more elegant experience and likely pay less for the same displays (ignoring comparisons to other manufacturers here).

I'd say with all that, I don't see Apple dropping ADC anytime soon.

We all know that the Apple displays are not a bargain. They are extremely nice (I have a 20") however, they should include both an ADC and DVI connector for the price you pay. Also, if Apple eliminated ADC it *in theory* it would be easier (and cheaper) to get ATI and Nvidia to release newer graphics cards for Macs (thus not having to place power+usb on the chip). That is not so much of a problem now (G5)... however in recent years the Mac's video card was sometimes versions behind the PC. And the "neatness" argument, I agree--but only if you have a Powermac. Apple might not sell as many displays w/ powerbooks but they do sell a significant number enough to justify creating a device (ADC to DVI adaptor) to allow that to happen.

 

[jaw04005]

The whole question would be moot for Powerbook owners if Apple would either put an ADC port on the Powerbooks, or include the adapter in the box. I don't understand why they make laptops with DVI connectors if they don't sell even a single DVI monitor.

Basically, the current setup amounts to charging Powerbook owners an extra $100 for an Apple display. With the percentage of Mac sales that are laptops, perhaps it's time to rethink this.

Oh, and ADC does nothing to reduce clutter if I have to use an adapter brick with multiple wires spewing from it. At that point, I might as well be using DVI.

Lol, I feel yah fell powerbook owner. However, Apple doesn't put ADC on their notebooks because of power. I don't get great battery performance now.. I can only imagine what would happen if my powerbook was trying to power a 20" display.. you talking what? 20 minutes

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

We all know that the Apple displays are not a bargain. They are extremely nice (I have a 20") however, they should include both an ADC and DVI connector for the price you pay. Also, if Apple eliminated ADC it *in theory* it would be easier (and cheaper) to get ATI and Nvidia to release newer graphics cards for Macs (thus not having to place power+usb on the chip). That is not so much of a problem now (G5)... however in recent years the Mac's video card was sometimes versions behind the PC. And the "neatness" argument, I agree--but only if you have a Powermac. Apple might not sell as many displays w/ powerbooks but they do sell a significant number enough to justify creating a device (ADC to DVI adaptor) to allow that to happen.

adc has killed the videocard market for mac and yes we are behind once more. Pcs are selling fx5200 with 128 ram, also 5700 and 5950 with 128 and ati has 9600xt and 9800xt while we dont. whats new? our hardware is allways behind but after using macs for years i guess im use to being behind and paying more.

 

[jaw04005]

Again, we come back to increasing prices across the board to satisfy people who aren't the primary target of the product. Since most purchasers won't care about the power supply (or worse get confused about why they have it in the first place) you might as well bundle it as an optional accessory. Oh wait, that's what we have now...

Get confused? These are people who need professional systems (Powerbook, Powermac) not your normal consumer (iMac, iBook, eMac). I don't think Apple including a DVI connector on the displays would "confuse" the Powermac users.. if it does they might be in over their heads anyways

 

[jaw04005]

adc has killed the videocard market for mac and yes we are behind once more. Pcs are selling fx5200 with 128 ram, also 5700 and 5950 with 128 and ati has 9600xt and 9800xt while we dont. whats new? our hardware is allways behind but after using macs for years i guess im use to being behind and paying more.

I would like to know what someone who works at ATI or Nvidia thinks about the ADC. It has to involve alot more work than the PC version--and im sure that is the reason it costs so much, anyone priced a graphics upgrade lately? They are ridiculous.

 

[Rincewind42]

Get confused? These are people who need professional systems (Powerbook, Powermac) not your normal consumer (iMac, iBook, eMac). I don't think Apple including a DVI connector on the displays would "confuse" the Powermac users.. if it does they might be in over their heads anyways

Professionals can be just as lame with things that are outside of their scope as the next person. I've seem some very intelligent people do some very stupid things that you wouldn't expect them to do.

Also, if Apple eliminated ADC it *in theory* it would be easier (and cheaper) to get ATI and Nvidia to release newer graphics cards for Macs (thus not having to place power+usb on the chip). That is not so much of a problem now (G5)... however in recent years the Mac's video card was sometimes versions behind the PC.

nVidia doesn't make any graphics cards, they only make the chip sets for them. So you would have to recruit someone who would not only build the cards, but also build them with the Mac firmware.

ATi does make display cards with ADC for Macs, but since I haven't needed one, I haven't looked at them.

And as I said before, ADC is in no way involved with the chips on the card at all, it's just a few extra lines on the card from the motherboard.

And the "neatness" argument, I agree--but only if you have a Powermac. Apple might not sell as many displays w/ powerbooks but they do sell a significant number enough to justify creating a device (ADC to DVI adaptor) to allow that to happen.

Well, there is an ADC to DVI adapter - it costs you $99 from the Apple Store

 

[briankonar]

The whole question would be moot for Powerbook owners if Apple would either put an ADC port on the Powerbooks, or include the adapter in the box. I don't understand why they make laptops with DVI connectors if they don't sell even a single DVI monitor.

a powerbook could never supply the power to run a monitor even when plugged into AC (i doubt the power supply could handle that kind of load). Plus many people travel with their Power books (to work, vacation, etc) and they opted for DVI to maintain compatibility with as large a range of setups as available. I think the real debate here is not whether or not Apple should switch to DVI, but whether or not they should include a DVI port on the Apple Displays. I definitely think it could only be a good thing.

to the person who commented about Apple's previous propietary connection being a flop, you are correct (although keyboards with power buttons were cool). It was called ADB and was for Mice and Keyboards, long since replaced with USB. I hate the fact that so many Windows machines still carry serial connectors and parallel ports. That **** died out in the early 90's.

 

[realityisterror]

i don't think so. apple's target for their displays is people with apple computers. they don't care about pc users. however it does somewhat defeat the purpose with all computers but powermacs. if the powerbooks had room, i would say that they should have an adc port. what does adc even look like?? i'll go look

reality

 

[spaceballl]

i don't think so. apple's target for their displays is people with apple computers. they don't care about pc users.

Let's try to broaden our perspective here. While mac users are Apple's highest priority, Apple is, above a computer maker, a business. The iPod, PC software, they do care about PC computers when it can help them achieve the bottom line, profit.

 

[briankonar]

Well, DVI isn't garbage, it's just not the complete package ADC is...
Personally, I'm a BIG fan of ADC.

my point is DVI hardly lives up to the potential it could have (as ADC so clearly shows). Apple needs to push ADC like they pushed Firewire, make the development kit's free so people have no reason not to use them. DVI has it's place (portability due to power issues) but aside from that all desktops should use ADC. Is DVI an Intel technology? that would explain alot .

i don't think so. apple's target for their displays is people with apple computers. they don't care about pc users. however it does somewhat defeat the purpose with all computers but powermacs. if the powerbooks had room, i would say that they should have an adc port. what does adc even look like?? i'll go look

reality

Apple loves cash, not Mac users. Powerbooks don't have room because they could never supply the juice to run a monitor, even off AC power you'd probably fry your power supply and MB. ADC is similar to DVI with 4 extra pin holes.

reality.

 

[Rincewind42]

Let's try to broaden our perspective here. While mac users are Apple's highest priority, Apple is, above a computer maker, a business. The iPod, PC software, they do care about PC computers when it can help them achieve the bottom line, profit.

Apple would rather sell a PC user a PowerMac G5 and a Display than sell 3 displays to PC users. It is higher margin, less compatibility work (currently an Apple monitor only has to work with ADC which is an extremely known quantity at Apple - granted this isn't a big point) and it keeps the "cool" points with Apple's machines.

There are many many businesses that refuse to do things that would seem to be very good ideas from the outside - for example selling $0 margin computers on the idea that users will pay for inflated upgrades. There is business that some companies simply don't want.

And as has been pointed out in other mediums, Mac users in general tend to not understand marketing very well (re: iPod mini's huge Mac community flop expectations) and with all due respect, I suspect that is what is happening here. The vocal minority that doesn't want to have to buy an ADC->DVI adapter is ignoring the fact that there is a silent majority that is either indifferent or loves the ADC connector. So for that minority, get over it. The adapter is really not that big a cost (in fact, at $99 it's a steal - buying the pieces if available would probably cost $30 for the connector and $90 for the power supply) and there are competing displays on the market that you can get without the adapter. I assure you, Apple won't miss your money if you decide not to go with their displays.