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The thread title is a huge scare tactic. Yes, it's technically true, but the reality is that the iP5 will work well on 3G networks everywhere.

There are supposedly 42 different LTE bands worldwide. Nobody would design a phone for that!

Most of Europe doesn't have LTE to begin with, they're just now putting it in place...

What it amounts to is that your shiny new toy won't be quite as shiny overseas.

For example: Anyone in the EU who buys the European iP5 will ONLY have LTE in Germany (only on TMobile) or on EE in the UK. But if they bring in to anywhere in the US, Canada, or Mexico, they'll only have 3G.

Seek therapy if this puts you into despair...
 
You won't be able to use LTE, but you can still enjoy 3G speeds wherever you go..not that bad right?
 
The LTE implementation is in flux. Show me a phone that will have near universal LTE functionality and I'll be impressed.

You are absolutely correct. After all the fiasco with Analog/CDMA/iDEN/GSM, I would assume these carrier get their act together and implement a common standard. It will be another decade to resolve this mess.

I am also surprised Apple back peddled from its universal phone philosophy. Verizon/Sprint cannot to simultaneous Voice/Data on LTE and this overseas incompatibility.

Only upside, probably you don't want consume lot of data while roaming globally.
 
This is a big deal for AT&T customers (the majority of iPhone users) who have ordered an iPhone 5 or will be waiting in line for one tomorrow.

If you buy an AT&T iPhone 5 it's not going to support LTE on any carriers outside of North America!

Don't believe me? See this:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

I hope you don't plan on traveling much.

Just one more reason I am fed up with carrier lock-in and am content with waiting for the unlocked version.


So you will give up LTE here in the states to get LTE overseas? That makes no sense. An unlocked phone model other than ATT won't get ATT LTE in the US. Locked or unlocked wont matter.
 
You are absolutely correct. After all the fiasco with Analog/CDMA/iDEN/GSM, I would assume these carrier get their act together and implement a common standard. It will be another decade to resolve this mess.

I am also surprised Apple back peddled from its universal phone philosophy. Verizon/Sprint cannot to simultaneous Voice/Data on LTE and this overseas incompatibility.

Only upside, probably you don't want consume lot of data while roaming globally.

Yeah but sucks for people like me who are thinking about moving abroad in the next 1-2 years.
 
You are absolutely correct. After all the fiasco with Analog/CDMA/iDEN/GSM, I would assume these carrier get their act together and implement a common standard. It will be another decade to resolve this mess.

It's not the carriers, it's the governments. We got lucky, for the most part, with the initial AMPS and GSM deployments in that many countries had that spectrum open to allocate to it so there were only two bands to support overseas. Further, GSM and it's followons are only as universal as they are due to government regulation requiring a universal system in some regions of the world. We did not have a nationwide GSM network in the US until many years after it had generally reached saturation in Europe due to carriers' choices of CDMA and TDMA initially. (I'm neglecting Omnipoint, etc for this as they didn't really have a nationwide network 10+ years ago)

Now with so many demands on spectrum and each country's regulatory body doling it out it's significantly harder to coordinate. Combine military and incumbent users "blocking" opening up spectrum and it quickly turns into a mess.

Finding a way to support legacy users whilst deploying new technology means you really need to support three separate networks at once - the one you're obsoleting, the one most of your users are on, and the new one you're building. It was AMPS+TDMA/GSM/UMTS, now it's GSM/UMTS/LTE and we think we have a sunset date of 2017 for GSM for AT&T anyway.
 
Your location tag confuses me as well. I wondered why there is a place in NZ called わかたね. And would the kanji for that be 和歌種 or 若種? (>_<)

I'm just being stupid... *and* I learned something by Googling for ロス :) Besides, embarrassing yourself in front of people is part of learning a language :eek:

Whakatane means something like "act like a man" but I only know about 20 kanji so I can't get any more detailed than that! Of course, since it's not a Japanese word that doesn't help either :p
 
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You won't be able to use LTE, but you can still enjoy 3G speeds wherever you go..not that bad right?

"Sorry sir, but your new car will revert to horse-and-buggy speeds as soon as it crosses state lines. But you can still enjoy horse-and-buggy speeds wherever you go... not that bad, right?" :D

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The thread title is a huge scare tactic.

Well F me. That's the last time I try to help people by pointing out clarifying facts regarding something a lot of people have misconceptions about.

Instead I will expect everyone to have researched the topic thoroughly and the second I hear someone complain that their iPhone 5 is slow overseas I'll simply punch them in the face and tell them they ought to have known better.
 
The unlocked version will also be A1428 version so it will still won't work with overseas LTE.

If you really want the truly global LTE roaming, you have to purchase the A1429 CDMA version so you can use LTE in the US with Verizon (or Sprint) and LTE overseas with Band 1,3,5. Verizon also allows unlocking of the Sim card if you need to travel.

If you got the A1429 GSM international version (from Europe or Asia), then it won't work with any LTE in the US at all... Which is stupid because you won't be able to use LTE in your home country.

I was actually weighing in this exact decision but I decided to stick with AT&T because I loathe CDMA technology and I do like the ability to use data while talking. I travel but I still can use HSPA+ anywhere else in the world so it's not a game breaker.

Nothing to do with locked/unlocked phones this time around... and everything to do with the different LTE frequencies being used around the world. Sorry :rolleyes:
 
Well F me. That's the last time I try to help people by pointing out clarifying facts regarding something a lot of people have misconceptions about.

Instead I will expect everyone to have researched the topic thoroughly and the second I hear someone complain that their iPhone 5 is slow overseas I'll simply punch them in the face and tell them they ought to have known better.

The problem is the hyperbole and now victim mentality when called out on it.

The phone will fully and properly function overseas, albeit at 14.4 Mbps. This is the speed the current 4S functions at on an HSPA network. My 4 functions at 7.2 Mbps and I've never felt like it wasn't fast enough on the air interface anywhere I've been on 3G. Put this together with the fact that there are very few LTE networks deployed outside North America and the relatively few Americans who travel overseas and the issue is minor.

Your second paragraph above is really quite childish - I know, arguing on the Internet and all.
 
"Sorry sir, but your new car will revert to horse-and-buggy speeds as soon as it crosses state lines. But you can still enjoy horse-and-buggy speeds wherever you go... not that bad, right?"
3G is not "horse & buggy". A lot of people use 3G today. A lot of people do not use horses & buggies. As others have said, you're prone to hyperbole. :rolleyes:
 
Aha, this is the thread am looking for ...

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The unlocked version will also be A1428 version so it will still won't work with overseas LTE.

If you really want the truly global LTE roaming, you have to purchase the A1429 CDMA version so you can use LTE in the US with Verizon (or Sprint) and LTE overseas with Band 1,3,5. Verizon also allows unlocking of the Sim card if you need to travel.

If you got the A1429 GSM international version (from Europe or Asia), then it won't work with any LTE in the US at all... Which is stupid because you won't be able to use LTE in your home country.

I was actually weighing in this exact decision but I decided to stick with AT&T because I loathe CDMA technology and I do like the ability to use data while talking. I travel but I still can use HSPA+ anywhere else in the world so it's not a game breaker.

Nothing to do with locked/unlocked phones this time around... and everything to do with the different LTE frequencies being used around the world. Sorry :rolleyes:

Thanks but am still torn which iP5 carrier to pick because I travel a lot overseas.

Am going to Japan, SEA on January and will be traveling to Europe next year ..

Either AT&T or Verizon's iP5 voice will work in all those countries/continent/region, right?

Am leaning towards getting the unlock iP5 Verizon no contract purchase but I have unlimited data with AT&T and our area is not covered with AT&T LTE (unlike in Verizon) and my contract with AT&T expires next year.

Now am back to maybe buy outright the unlock AT&T iP5 thus keeping my unlimited data plan since 3.5 G is fast enough and the iP5 AT&T 3G voice & data will work mostly overseas.

And global LTE roaming will gonna cost me a lot anyway that am gonna be probably using wi-fi instead. Voice is more important overseas.

Sprint iP5 = Verizon iP5 pretty much?

Arrrrgh, wait ... Japan is what? Which one will work there?

Decisions. Decision. Tick. Tock. Sorry for hijacking the thread. Very enlightening discussions ...
 
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Aha, this is the thread am looking for ...

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Thanks but am still torn which iP5 carrier to pick because I travel a lot overseas.

Am going to Japan, SEA on January and will be traveling to Europe next year ..

Either AT&T or Verizon's iP5 voice will work in all those countries/continent/region, right?

Am leaning towards getting the unlock iP5 Verizon no contract purchase but I have unlimited data with AT&T and our area is not covered with AT&T LTE (unlike in Verizon) and my contract with AT&T expires next year.

Now am back to maybe buy outright the unlock AT&T iP5 thus keeping my unlimited data plan since 3.5 G is fast enough and the iP5 AT&T 3G voice & data will work mostly overseas.

And global LTE roaming will gonna cost me a lot anyway that am gonna be probably using wi-fi instead. Voice is more important overseas.

Sprint iP5 = Verizon iP5 pretty much?

Arrrrgh, wait ... Japan is what? Which one will work there?

Decisions. Decision. Tick. Tock. Sorry for hijacking the thread. Very enlightening discussions ...

Correct... All my explanation above is basically about LTE. Voice + 3G / 3.5G will work with any phone anywhere.

Now, If you purchase unlocked A1428 AT&T version, then you will be able to use LTE in the US (when AT&T decided to cover your area!) but you won't be able to use LTE in Japan/SEA/Europe.

I am not really talking about "global LTE roaming". If you bought unlocked phones, you can take the simcard out and buy local Nanosim and use prepaid option which is always cheaper than roaming.

Sprint iPhone 5 is basically Verizon iPhone 5 but I am not 100% sure if the simcard slot is unlocked. I haven't read those news about Sprint. Someone with Sprint iPhone 5 might need to clarify this for you.

Japan is using Band 1 so the AT&T A1428 model will not have LTE in Japan. Again, voice will work.

In summary:

Voice + 3G + 3.5G HSPA+ will work anywhere with any phone as long as their simcard slot is unlocked.

If you purchase A1428 AT&T GSM unlocked (no commitment or unlocked from Apple), you will be able to use LTE with AT&T in the US and Canada but not anywhere else in the world

If you purchase A1429 GSM International unlocked (not sure where you can find this model in the US), you will NOT be able to use LTE in the US at all but you can use LTE in Europe, Asia, and Japan

If you purchase A1429 CDMA Verizon with no commitment, you will be able to use LTE in the US with Verizon and the simcard is unlocked so you will be able to use LTE overseas in SEA, Europe, and Japan with compatible carriers.
- note that as I mentioned before, I am not 100% sure about Sprint at the moment because I haven't read news that their simcard is unlocked.
 
if you purchase the at&t model at full price from the apple store, it will be unlocked right? Do i have to activate and use the phone on an international carrier first? if i buy it contract free from apple and then activate on at&t first, will at&t subsequently "re-lock" the device?

thanks in advance!
 
I still feel like we're lacking some information here... Are there physically different LTE chips in the two GSM models, or is it software or some kind of lock that differentiates the two?

People who are saying that an unlocked AT&T GSM phone won't work with overseas LTE networks - is that just a guess, or do we have evidence of this? The chart on the OP's link from Apple is comparing a carrier locked AT&T GSM phone with a carrier unlocked GSM phone. Do we know for sure that there is a hardware difference between the two? In other words, do we know for certain that a no commitment/unlocked AT&T GSM phone won't have access to more LTE bands?
 
I'm not understanding this thread.

First, the 4S, which I have, was marketed as a world phone, whether purchased locked or unlocked. All that needed to be done was make a call to your carrier to have it unlocked for it to roam GSM/CDMA internationally. I've used my 4S CDMA Sprint iPhone in Australia, Japan, China, Philippines and Korea without issues. I'd purchased a local sim from each country and pop it in. Haven't tested it in Europe, but I do have a London trip coming up later this year.

Now, as for the 5, is it capable of the same thing? I don't need to have the LTE connections to make a call; as long as it can make/receive calls internationally from wherever I'm at.
 
Hopefully, this will help some people...
http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

It IS confusing... and unlike the 4s, there is NO UNIVERSAL LTE MODEL
Read on if you want more explanation (or confusion!:confused:)

LTE lets you go REALLY fast.
3G and 4g (HSPA+ according to AT&T:rolleyes:) lets you go sort of fast, but not as fast as LTE.

Think of it this way- LTE is like a Superhighway or Interstate here in the US. It has a faster speed limit than local roads.
If your car had a speed restrictor or 'governor' on it, you wouldn't be able to go as fast on the Superhighway as cars without that speed restrictor. But you could still go the slower speed, e.g., the speed limit on the local roads. And you could still get around, just at a slower speed.
The iPhone 5 limits where you can go really fast to a small subset of Superhighways. It does this because it doesn't have access to all of the LTE channels around the world.
Apple chose to do this because there isn't a single chip that covers all LTE speeds yet. To add all the chips needed for worldwide LTE coverage would require the phone to be larger.
By only including SOME LTE channels on each model, it kind of (but not literally) places speed restrictors on your phone in that it only allows you go REALLY FAST on certain channels (or roads to continue the analogy).
So unless your country has its LTE on one of the channels covered by the particular model of phone, you are limited to local road speed. (3g, 4g)

The AT&T model ONLY has LTE channels that work in the US and Canada. If it's UNLOCKED, you can still use it in Europe, but at the slower speed.(local roads)

The Verizon model sold here in the US will allow LTE on Verizon's CDMA LTE network AND on SOME of the European LTE Networks, etc.

But the bottom line is that there is NO universal, Worldwide LTE iPhone5, meaning that you can't buy ONE handset and have it work ON LTE everywhere in the world.

Depending upon the model you buy (see the discussion in this thread and the above link), if you get an UNLOCKED phone, you CAN have it work in other parts of the world at the slower, non-LTE speeds. And in some countries, you can even get it to function at the faster LTE speed. (see the chart)
And to add to the confusion, there is no STANDARD European LTE model because the various countries in the EE use a variety of channels for their LTE. (you need to see which country uses which channel. For example, NONE of the current iPhone 5 models will work at LTE speed in Spain because it uses a different LTE frequency altogether).
But, depending upon the model you buy, you CAN get an UNLOCKED iPhone 5 to work in many European countries just at the slower, non-LTE speeds. (and again, in some countries, you can even get it to function at the LTE speed)
Confusing? You bet!;)
 
There's too much confusion on this thread. There are essentially two problems (unsolvable) problems here: unlocked iPhone 5s and LTE.

As with previous iterations of iPhones, unlocked versions will be available (within a couple months). Purchase and use it overseas.

Note: Verizon's iPhone 5s are unlocked out-of-the-box. But it's tbd if that's the intended function. If not, you may get screwed later on.

With the unlocked version, it's unrealistic to expect it to work with LTE networks outside the US given the # of bands and how each country plans to implement it. LTE is still a developing tech and the current chips just don't have support for all the bands, end of story.

If you're going to be able to use the iPhone overseas (which itself is already a great benefit), be happy with that and the 3g+ speeds. I'm certain, in the future, they will try to build out a "true" universal phone.
 
I still feel like we're lacking some information here... Are there physically different LTE chips in the two GSM models, or is it software or some kind of lock that differentiates the two?
There are physically distinct LTE chips in the models indicated.

People who are saying that an unlocked AT&T GSM phone won't work with overseas LTE networks - is that just a guess, or do we have evidence of this?
The Chart includes the Channels within which the chip will function. The specs of the various models make clear which channels are available on the specific chips.

The chart on the OP's link from Apple is comparing a carrier locked AT&T GSM phone with a carrier unlocked GSM phone. Do we know for sure that there is a hardware difference between the two?
Yes. The specs make this clear.

In other words, do we know for certain that a no commitment/unlocked AT&T GSM phone won't have access to more LTE bands?
Yes. It doesn't contain the hardware necessary to use the other channels.

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...the reality is that the iP5 will work well on 3G networks everywhere.

Absolutely!

Most of Europe doesn't have LTE to begin with, they're just now putting it in place...

Very true



Seek therapy if this puts you into despair...

Amen!
 
Correct... All my explanation above is basically about LTE. Voice + 3G / 3.5G will work with any phone anywhere.

Now, If you purchase unlocked A1428 AT&T version, then you will be able to use LTE in the US (when AT&T decided to cover your area!) but you won't be able to use LTE in Japan/SEA/Europe.

I am not really talking about "global LTE roaming". If you bought unlocked phones, you can take the simcard out and buy local Nanosim and use prepaid option which is always cheaper than roaming.

Sprint iPhone 5 is basically Verizon iPhone 5 but I am not 100% sure if the simcard slot is unlocked. I haven't read those news about Sprint. Someone with Sprint iPhone 5 might need to clarify this for you.

Japan is using Band 1 so the AT&T A1428 model will not have LTE in Japan. Again, voice will work.

In summary:

Voice + 3G + 3.5G HSPA+ will work anywhere with any phone as long as their simcard slot is unlocked.

If you purchase A1428 AT&T GSM unlocked (no commitment or unlocked from Apple), you will be able to use LTE with AT&T in the US and Canada but not anywhere else in the world

If you purchase A1429 GSM International unlocked (not sure where you can find this model in the US), you will NOT be able to use LTE in the US at all but you can use LTE in Europe, Asia, and Japan

If you purchase A1429 CDMA Verizon with no commitment, you will be able to use LTE in the US with Verizon and the simcard is unlocked so you will be able to use LTE overseas in SEA, Europe, and Japan with compatible carriers.
- note that as I mentioned before, I am not 100% sure about Sprint at the moment because I haven't read news that their simcard is unlocked.

You are my hero, after Apple! :D Thanks so much!
 
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Verizon IP5:
1) unlocked and works on AT&T network (confirmed and verified; contract or not)
2) compatible with LTE in other countries
3) compatible with GSM voice and 3G in other countries


AT&T IP5:
1) not work on verizon network
2) not compatible with LTE in other contries
3) compatible with GSM voice and 3G in other countries.

anything missing?
 
It IS confusing... and unlike the 4s, there is NO UNIVERSAL LTE MODEL

Umm, the 4s did not support LTE in any way. CDMA yes, LTE no. So in that way the 5 is identical to the 4s.

LTE is a different technology and has evolved in such a way that very few phones (in fact off the top of my head I can't think of any mainstream consumer units) support anything other than a subset of the frequencies available.

Here in the UK for example we're getting LTE via Everything Everywhere but on a chunk of 1800Mhz spectrum that no-one else in the country will use. So O2 and Vodafone will launch LTE services in about a year from now on 800Mhz and 2.6Ghz bands. 3 (another network) have 1800Mhz spectrum they've acquired from EE but can't really use it for another year. Net result is we're likely to either see UK-specific models of handsets or, more likely I suspect, we're gonna end up with handsets tailored to specific networks (I really hope not btw).

Is LTE confusing? Yeah, a little. But at the moment there's really no other option for manufacturers but to pick and choose what bands they support and there's very little they can do about that.
 
Verizon IP5:
1) unlocked and works on AT&T network (confirmed and verified; contract or not)
But not at LTE Speed.
2) compatible with LTE in other countries
SOME other countries.
3) compatible with GSM voice and 3G in other countries
Yes.


AT&T IP5:
1) not work on verizon network
2) not compatible with LTE in other countries
3) compatible with GSM voice and 3G in other countries.

Accurate
 
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