Another option is that we 'Nay' whatever team you propose and see who QoS proposes as a team - you can always strong leader afterwards if you want.
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[A] The Agency - GAME OVER -- SPIES WIN
- Thread starter ravenvii
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The other thing is is doesn't allow other spies to know Woods vote before they send theirs in - which would be a slight advantage to the spies if Wood is a spy - although they can probably assume he would vote success unless needed to vote failure to make the mission fail. It certainly changes the dynamic and on the whole I think its a slight advantage to the spies over how we played it in game 1. It's probably more in keeping with how the original game would be played though.
Someone lied. I'm imploring my fellow Agents to please give the above two scenarios serious thought, because I'm being setup and we're already down 1 mission.
Scenario 1 - If Wood and mscriv are the spies, that means Wood voted success in mission 1 with a nod toward a long game approach. Sure, they lose round 1 but they establish two spies as potential good guys, and control the mission cards. Note that mscriv and Wood got into a heated discussion with twietee regarding the team selection and the card distribution.
Scenario 2 - The simpler answer - Koodauw and DP are spies and lied about DP's status via Eavesdrop.
On the bright side, you have the no confidence, which can definitely help depending on the team that DP puts together (if it gets sent through).
Regarding your scenarios - Wood was pretty quick with being ok with you taking the eavesdrop, which would be a point against him (in terms of shady business).
I'm interested in seeing what DP does with his team.
I understand what you are saying, but from an Agent perspective one of the key advantages of using the card is to be able to see a spy's fail vote and no confidence that mission before it takes place.
If we continue to do it the way we did this past round then the vote is not done "publicly during the Mission Phase". Instead it's revealed by the GG at the conclusion of the mission phase and there is no way for an agent team with a No Confidence card to stop it. I think this is a game dynamic that we need clarity on because it does directly affect strategy on both sides (agents and spies).
I am not a spy, but that doesn't clear Wood as he could easily be a bad guy who told the truth to gain trust with the combination of voting success and confirming my agent status.
The same could be said for Koodauw. He could be a spy who bluffed on the first mission and told the truth about DP in order to build trust.
That being said, if Koodauw and Wood are both spies then they hid together during mission 1. This could be a mix up or a play it safe move. However, the implication of this theory is that DP is innocent and that leaves you, QOS, as being the spy who voted to fail on mission 2. The other, and more scary implication, is that I drafted a team for the first mission with 3 spies who all voted success. Yikes!
Well, that was to be expected.
Agreed and well spotted. We also finished the first mission without the plots played/infos communicated so wouldn't have been able to no confy it if I spy would have been spotted. Not really a fan of those tweaks tbh.
Why is S2 more simple than the first?
But agreed, although there is also the possibility that there were more than two spies on the last mission.
We can assume that mscriv put together a bad team already as well, since it's (highly) unlikely he put out an all-agents team while being a bad apple himself.
Agreed and well spotted. We also finished the first mission without the plots played/infos communicated so wouldn't have been able to no confy it if I spy would have been spotted. Not really a fan of those tweaks tbh.
Why is S2 more simple than the first?
But agreed, although there is also the possibility that there were more than two spies on the last mission.
We can assume that mscriv put together a bad team already as well, since it's (highly) unlikely he put out an all-agents team while being a bad apple himself.
Not only was Wood gung-ho to have me take eavesdrop, but he was certainly emphasizing that once he voted publicly we would have to trust him and thereby mscriv. Obviously, they only needed one nay so it didn't matter if he voted publicly with mscriv lying in wait with a nay.
I wasn't sure if he's been just sarcastic, but I noticed that too. Under Surveillance doesn't confirm or help deducting anything regarding mscriv/wood. It only keeps a potential spy (potentially) in check.
i agree with pretty much everyone's analysis that there are three scenarios (each with variants) and each requires a spy to be in mission 1 and voted success.
1. mscriv voted fail. mscriv is a spy, and thus wood is also a spy. wood hid in mission 1. the under surfveillance card would have helped them, as they would know how to split votes
2. QoS voted fail. QoS is a spy and hid in mission 1
3. Dp voted fail. Dp is a spy and thus koodauw is also a spy and hid in mission 1.
#3 is wrong, thus we fall back to the first two: wood/mscriv or QoS, which is what i said in my earlier post.
it's great that we all agree on these scenario, but i haven't seen any suggestions.
i will go one step ahead in the analysis: since it is certain there was a spy in mission 1, this hinders mscriv position a little, since he put on a bad team, like koodauw. this could be by design or by chance, but it can't be used as exculpatory evidence.
it is all weak evidence, but it seems to accumulate in the direction of mscriv/wood, so i am inclined to freeze them out, and keep QoS in.
the rest of the team is tough i am thinking techgod to possibly check on QoS -depending on the cards- and the pair fenris-twietee
1. mscriv voted fail. mscriv is a spy, and thus wood is also a spy. wood hid in mission 1. the under surfveillance card would have helped them, as they would know how to split votes
2. QoS voted fail. QoS is a spy and hid in mission 1
3. Dp voted fail. Dp is a spy and thus koodauw is also a spy and hid in mission 1.
#3 is wrong, thus we fall back to the first two: wood/mscriv or QoS, which is what i said in my earlier post.
it's great that we all agree on these scenario, but i haven't seen any suggestions.
i will go one step ahead in the analysis: since it is certain there was a spy in mission 1, this hinders mscriv position a little, since he put on a bad team, like koodauw. this could be by design or by chance, but it can't be used as exculpatory evidence.
it is all weak evidence, but it seems to accumulate in the direction of mscriv/wood, so i am inclined to freeze them out, and keep QoS in.
the rest of the team is tough i am thinking techgod to possibly check on QoS -depending on the cards- and the pair fenris-twietee
Self referential, but what the heck:
That's the downside, no communication/signs necessary when two spies are on a mission with one being under surveillance: it's crystal clear that only one votes fail and who that is.
That's the downside, no communication/signs necessary when two spies are on a mission with one being under surveillance: it's crystal clear that only one votes fail and who that is.
You think WoodNUFC would risk to out himself already? could be, but just as risky as bringing in two totally "unproven" players.
I have reservations against techGod, he's dissapearing too much for my liking. It's a huge pity and the reason I suspected mscriv and wood all along since his list and distribution brings us now into the dilemma not being able to effectevly chain link our intel. Don't think mscriv didn't do this on purpose. (would be a reason to freeze wood out though, I agree).
Got good vibes from moyank so far, but nothing substantial of course.
Bringing me in is always a good idea.
Nice analysis!
Although all 3 are possible a Koodauw/DP spy team feels less likely since it would require either mscriv to have planned where to play the eavesdrop making him a spy as well or an element of luck on the part of the spies with koodauw being given the eavesdrop that he was forced to use on DP but being lucky that he could use to clear a fellow spy. So i currently consider DP to be the least likely spy of the 4 of them.
mscriv / wood as spies is more likely than that since mscriv could choose who he gave the establish confidence too and he even went against twietee suggestion of giving it to QoS. The under surveillance would have helped them decide who voted fail. In hindsight it may have been better to stick with the original suggestion of giving under surveillance to QoS.
ATM QoS being a spy is equally likely - and requires no lies to have been told.
Wow, you sure have come out swinging.
If Wood is a spy in hiding then how does that serve to further implicate me? You folks appear to be lumping us together as either both innocent or both guilty.
Well, here's what I know to be a fact, I voted for a mission success. Thus, your scenario #1 is wrong. We know from the public reveal that WoodNUFC voted success. He could still be a spy in hiding, but the fact remains that he did not fail mission 2. This means that either you or QOS are the person guilty of voting failure on mission 2. The question we have before us now is how can we use the team leader data to gather further clues as to which one of you is the spy.
It bears repeating - however, it only keeps them in check to a point. They already have one win under their belts, one more and it won't matter.
Mainly because I don't have any. My gut is telling me that it's mscriv/Wood based on the discussions in the thread, but I would prefer to have more than that to go on. I still have a No Confidence card to play, and am fully willing to be under scrutiny and included in the next round if it makes sense to do so.
However, if I'm included and for whatever reason DP is a spy...I will most certainly be the scapegoat while a spy goes undetected and we're down 2-1. That would be really tough to come back from.
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Wow, you sure have come out swinging.
It's not personal.
I'm being set up, which is clear to me because I'm an Agent, but not to others for obvious reasons. I am doing my best not to let the Agents get taken for a ride. I'm not a Spy. I am, however, okay with being excluded in favor of safer options since I'd likely be a scapegoat and would confuse things further for any team I'm on. We just don't have the turns to waste.
Wood voted success so if it there is a mscriv/Wood Spy team, it was mscriv that risked outing them. I think thats very possible since if they missed this one they would need all 3 remaining missions including the one where 2 spies have to fail it.
This I don't get - I agree TechGod is too absent for my liking too - but I don't see how that links in any way to suspicions of mscriv and wood?
moyank usually gives good vibes whatever side she was on.Got good vibes from moyank so far, but nothing substantial of course.
Bringing me in is always a good idea.
If your an agent, I agree and think its most likely that mscriv and wood are spies. However, you'd probably be saying the same things if you were a spy and I'm not currently seeing any way to make a decision between if mscriv/wood are spies or your the spy other than taking one group or the other on a mission and seeing what we get from cards or the mission vote - sorry.It's not personal.
I'm not a Spy. I am, however, okay with being excluded in favor of safer options since I'd likely be a scapegoat and would confuse things further for any team I'm on. We just don't have the turns to waste.
I agree - but you have to understand, there's absolutely no way to for me to clear myself at the moment. I'm just trying to stop the spies from pulling a fast one, even if it means only having my powers of persuasion to assist me.
I did plan where to play the Eavesdrop card. I wanted to limit Koodauw's options to see what he would do. It had already been mentioned that both the Eavesdrop and the Establish Confidence could be used together to "double clear" me. I thought that suggestion was a waste. Additionally, I respect DP's game play and analysis skills which can either be a great asset if he's a good guy, or a severe detriment if he's a bad guy. For this reason I wanted some early information on him. So, my plan was to put Koodauw in a position where he could either give us some useful information on Don't Panic or he could choose to, in my opinion, "waste the card" by going along with the double clear strategy. It was a test of sorts and in my mind if he chose to waste the card it would raise my suspicion of him. Now, of course, there is the possibility that both Koodauw and DP are spies and in that case I would have given them a great cover strategy. With little to no information to go on in the first round that seemed a reasonable risk to take.
In round one we know absolutely nothing about each other. Twietee's suggestion, like anyone else's must be taken with a "grain of salt". WoodNUFC has spoken openly about his experience in this game and I purposefully chose him for the Establish Confidence because I wanted to be able to have the combined data of his choice in how to report the PM and the resulting voting data. I've been able to see him play a villain in these games two times now between the first game and the stopped second game. If he indeed was a spy I didn't want to put the No Confidence card into his hands.
QOS was an agent in the first two games and her posting style hadn't changed much at that point in the game. For this reason and the two above I felt comfortable in giving her the No Confidence.
I understand. I don't want the spies to win either. Just have to figure out who is telling the truth and who is deceiving us.
It's not personal.
I know it's not personal.
I just meant that you seem to be strongly suggesting it's the combo of me and Wood as opposed to considering the possibility that it's DP. That seems odd to me. We are in similar positions, I don't want to be "set up" or used by the spies to throw off the agents. However, the difference is I'm claiming my innocence and using the facts available to point to the two equally possible options of either you or DP being the spy. You seem have quickly taken DP at his word and lowered your suspicion that he is the spy. I don't understand that.I think this is where your approach to the game and mine differ. Per the affectionately named "QOS rule" I don't want to be excluded because I know that only raises the chance that a spy goes on the mission team in my place. With both DP and I having been "semi-cleared" by plot cards via PM I understand it's a tough call for the other agents to know who to trust.
allright, seems we got to the point we are just arguing in circles, which is sort of unavoidable at this stage.
i appreciate mscriv point of view, but to me is 50-50, so i am picking one side. hopefully i am right.
i'll incorporate some of the suggestions above so here is the team
@Queen of Spades
@Moyank24
@FenrisMoonlight
@twietee
i appreciate mscriv point of view, but to me is 50-50, so i am picking one side. hopefully i am right.
i'll incorporate some of the suggestions above so here is the team
@Queen of Spades
@Moyank24
@FenrisMoonlight
@twietee
"DAMN it! I meant go down the hallway! That was meant for the other team!" Koodauw shouted.
"Uh, too late, I'm in the bathroom, and someone's coming down the hall."
"Sit tight! WoodNUFC -- DAMMIT I meant Queen of Spades! Can you take that guy out?!"
"No, I can't see him."
"Damn it! Just sit tight, Don't panic! mscriv! Go into the bathroom!"
"Already in. Taking a **** waiting for your orders."
"... Get into the duct system above you."
"No problem boss. Before or after I wipe my ass, though?"
"**** you. WoodNUFC, get into position! You'll be shooting blind, but mscriv will tell you exactly where the guy is!"
"Yessir!"
"Tell me when you're in position, mscriv!"
"Roger that."
"Queen of Spades! You're in position, right?"
"No sir. I'm in the bedroom with the target tied up."
"WHAT?! What happened?"
"I just decided to do things my way."
"Don't panic! Get outta there and join Queen of Spades and take that guy to HQ!"
"But I'm taking a --"
"****. You."
*laughing*
"I'm in position!" mscriv's voice came over the radio.
"WoodNUFC!"
"Yessir! I'm ready! Just tell me where, mscriv!"
"He's in the front of the first window to your left. His head lines up perfectly with the right -- oh."
"Did I get him?"
"Yeah. Nice one."
"Great jobs, guys! Let's get outta there!" Koodauw shouted.
***
"This... is a major disappointment. You did not evaluate your intelligence with adequate diligence and now we have the double alive, and the actual target dead. Our clients are very angry with us, and demand that we perform damage control. Our best agents are out there cleaning up the mess you left. And we will not be compensated for the work."
"That -- that will not happen again, sir." Koodauw said in a low voice.
"No. No, it won't. Dismissed."
***
MISSION STATUS: FAILURE
VOTES:
SUCCESS x3
FAILURE x1
PUBLIC VOTES:
WoodNUFC voted SUCCESS.
***
"This is part of the clean-up operation after the failure of the extraction. A newspaper has somehow obtained information about the mission and linked it to our clients. The mission is to ensure the newspaper retracts the news article and publicly admits to being mistaken. In other words the mission is to discredit the newspaper to oblivion. Use lethal force if necessary. This mission is not optional, and failure is not an option."
***
GAME STATUS:
TURN 1 --
Leader: mscriv
Team: Koodauw, WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades
Mission: Success
Cards:
Queen of Spades [No Confidence]
Score:
Agents: 1, Spies: 0
TURN 2 --
Leader: Koodauw
Team: WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades, Don't panic, mscriv
Mission: Failure
Cards:
Queen of Spades [No Confidence]
mscriv [Strong Leader]
Don't panic [Strong Leader]
Score:
Agents: 1, Spies: 1
"Uh, too late, I'm in the bathroom, and someone's coming down the hall."
"Sit tight! WoodNUFC -- DAMMIT I meant Queen of Spades! Can you take that guy out?!"
"No, I can't see him."
"Damn it! Just sit tight, Don't panic! mscriv! Go into the bathroom!"
"Already in. Taking a **** waiting for your orders."
"... Get into the duct system above you."
"No problem boss. Before or after I wipe my ass, though?"
"**** you. WoodNUFC, get into position! You'll be shooting blind, but mscriv will tell you exactly where the guy is!"
"Yessir!"
"Tell me when you're in position, mscriv!"
"Roger that."
"Queen of Spades! You're in position, right?"
"No sir. I'm in the bedroom with the target tied up."
"WHAT?! What happened?"
"I just decided to do things my way."
"Don't panic! Get outta there and join Queen of Spades and take that guy to HQ!"
"But I'm taking a --"
"****. You."
*laughing*
"I'm in position!" mscriv's voice came over the radio.
"WoodNUFC!"
"Yessir! I'm ready! Just tell me where, mscriv!"
"He's in the front of the first window to your left. His head lines up perfectly with the right -- oh."
"Did I get him?"
"Yeah. Nice one."
"Great jobs, guys! Let's get outta there!" Koodauw shouted.
***
"This... is a major disappointment. You did not evaluate your intelligence with adequate diligence and now we have the double alive, and the actual target dead. Our clients are very angry with us, and demand that we perform damage control. Our best agents are out there cleaning up the mess you left. And we will not be compensated for the work."
"That -- that will not happen again, sir." Koodauw said in a low voice.
"No. No, it won't. Dismissed."
***
MISSION STATUS: FAILURE
VOTES:
SUCCESS x3
FAILURE x1
PUBLIC VOTES:
WoodNUFC voted SUCCESS.
***
"This is part of the clean-up operation after the failure of the extraction. A newspaper has somehow obtained information about the mission and linked it to our clients. The mission is to ensure the newspaper retracts the news article and publicly admits to being mistaken. In other words the mission is to discredit the newspaper to oblivion. Use lethal force if necessary. This mission is not optional, and failure is not an option."
***
GAME STATUS:
TURN 1 --
Leader: mscriv
Team: Koodauw, WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades
Mission: Success
Cards:
Queen of Spades [No Confidence]
Score:
Agents: 1, Spies: 0
TURN 2 --
Leader: Koodauw
Team: WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades, Don't panic, mscriv
Mission: Failure
Cards:
Queen of Spades [No Confidence]
mscriv [Strong Leader]
Don't panic [Strong Leader]
Score:
Agents: 1, Spies: 1
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Finally settling into my hotel room, and have--quickly--caught up.
Your willingness to overanalyze details--both within and outside the game--would make me laugh, if it wasn't so sad. My conduct here has been misconstrued into being disingenuous, when in fact I have been an eager and willing teammate. If you want to read into my actions/statements go for it, but you are putting the team in danger by not including me on future missions.
I would like to point out that I just happened to be online at that time Koodauw posted that he was planning to use the Under Surveillance on QoS. I responded that it was a reasonable plan, and it was. There was no other motivation behind that post. I just happened to be around when it was posted. I have absolutely nothing to hide. Fenris and Twietee wanted to waste a useful tool on me, fine, I'll take it and I'll continue voting "success" like a good agent.
Your willingness to overanalyze details--both within and outside the game--would make me laugh, if it wasn't so sad. My conduct here has been misconstrued into being disingenuous, when in fact I have been an eager and willing teammate. If you want to read into my actions/statements go for it, but you are putting the team in danger by not including me on future missions.
I would like to point out that I just happened to be online at that time Koodauw posted that he was planning to use the Under Surveillance on QoS. I responded that it was a reasonable plan, and it was. There was no other motivation behind that post. I just happened to be around when it was posted. I have absolutely nothing to hide. Fenris and Twietee wanted to waste a useful tool on me, fine, I'll take it and I'll continue voting "success" like a good agent.