a week of graphic design on the 12-inch MacBook

[Harleg]

Yep it's always nice to reflect on what we take for granted as so easy to do now, and for so little money compared to how it used to get done. One of my personal "look at how things have changed" milestones was already from quite some time back. I remember when I bought the exs24 sampler for Logic back when it was a plug in you had to buy separately. I looked at this cardboard box with a disc in it thinking OK, so for 400 bucks I just bought a virtually limitless sampler, compared to the 12K I'd spend only a few years earlier for a fully kitted out K2500... Still a lovely instrument but limited to 48 voices, laughably small amounts of RAM compared to what we use now. I think from memory it even had a 40MB hard drive built in. 40 megabytes, lol.

btw speaking of your korg micro key (I have one at home too), have you seen the new CME x-key controllers? Haven't physically tried one yet but they look amazing.

OK I think we can call this thread officially highjacked now.. sorry to the OP. Music nerds and graphic designers I'm sure at least have in common the fact that we can go on forever into shop talk if no one stops us...

I believe the OP's observations are directly relevant to music production/Logic/GB as all of the discussed programs are cpu/ram intensive. I plan on doing photo and video work as well, so the discussion is all inclusive regarding the capabilities/limitations of the rMB. And based upon the OP's experiences, I'll probably give the base model/cpu a test run.

This is what I'm really looking for; not so much to eliminate the usb cable per se, but to reduce the power drain and associated heat from direct usb-powering: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...board?gclid=CMqK67-aiMcCFVFsfgodiE8FAg#/story

I really don't think the rMB is built for powering devices. Even my MBP gets hot powering the micro key.

My only concern with CME is the lack of true mod wheels for string volume/vibrato control.

 

[tbirdparis]

Yep that's true, there's definitely a shared argument for certain types of intensive use that crosses over between graphic design, video work, music production.. lots of different areas. In my case I didn't buy the rMB for music work at all, but I'm still pretty curious to see just how usable it could be as part of a portable writing setup. I mentioned this somewhere before on an earlier thread somewhere, but I ran the infamous evan logic multicore benchmark on a couple of in-store demo rMBs just to see what happened. I managed to get playback of a significantly higher number of tracks than I ever was able to get on my 2010 top of the range i7 MBP. Considering I used to actually use that MBP for real work, this bodes pretty well for the usability of the rMB for doing some music production for sure. No one would be well advised to get one as their main production machine, but if they only want to work in a fairly lightweight way, then actually sure why not.

Haven't tried the evan logic test on my 1.3 yet, will be curious to see if it's noticeable better than it was on the 1.1's in store. Will report back!

PS re the CME, yep I agree actually. Just watched a video review of it and realised that yes, no real mod wheel would be a big deal breaker for me for writing strings. It is nice that you can attach sustain and expression pedals though with the breakout cable on the 37 key model, something I would like to have on the Korg..

 

[R3k]

To pitch in on the Logic performance thing. I write music professionally as well. Went into the Apple Store and right away experienced jerky response while resizing the main Logic window and navigating around, not very happy about that and pretty much answered my questions regarding Logic performance. I didn't stress test it though. I'm sure it could handle a few Kontakt 5 instruments, but not sure how many Adagio's / Cinematic Strings / Play instances it'll take, especially if your running picture..

I was thinking that the rMB could be a good replacement for my 2009 MacBook Pro for running Ableton Live sessions on when I play out, but not sure if it will handle it all.

Am exited about the second generation!

 

[tbirdparis]

I agree, I doubt anyone is seriously thinking of the rMB for really working with Logic. But bear in mind the rMB doesn't have a dedicated GPU, which would explain why Logic window redrawing or resizing is not smooth right off the bat. I'd be careful not to draw too many conclusions about its ability to handle some audio from that alone though. I think it ought to be able to deal with a few instances of Kontakt, haven't tested it myself yet but it should probably run a handful even if the screen redraws are slow. Working to picture though might be a waste of time because indeed, that's where the lack of a proper GPU would probably be a big drawback...

 

[Harleg]

To pitch in on the Logic performance thing. I write music professionally as well. Went into the Apple Store and right away experienced jerky response while resizing the main Logic window and navigating around, not very happy about that and pretty much answered my questions regarding Logic performance. I didn't stress test it though. I'm sure it could handle a few Kontakt 5 instruments, but not sure how many Adagio's / Cinematic Strings / Play instances it'll take, especially if your running picture..

I was thinking that the rMB could be a good replacement for my 2009 MacBook Pro for running Ableton Live sessions on when I play out, but not sure if it will handle it all.

Am exited about the second generation!

Garage Band performed well on a 1.1ghz rMB via a short tryout in the Apple store... at least running 10 or so mixed tracks: bundled virtual instruments, loops, drummer, etc. CPU was ranging around 75%. GB should be good enough for simple arrangements, or one could lock tracks to increase CPU headroom. I did not notice any graphic stuttering opening/closing windows. So, for my purposes, I may not even load Logic on this machine.

If skylake can indeed improve thermal efficiency for 15% gains in CPU performance, then the door for musicians, photographers, videographers will really start opening up, especially if higher clocked CPU's are factored in.

 

[tbirdparis]

I'd still give Logic a try though.. For me personally, using GarageBand even just for scratchpad ideas would be too depressing!
Also, it's probably easier if you start an idea on LPX on the rMB to then just open the same project on your main machine. Pretty sure Logic can import from Garage Band but why bother if Logic runs OK?

FYI, I just started (sort of) using Logic on the rMB.. Nothing heavy at all for now, have just imported the full work in progress cut of a feature I'm starting on soon so I can start testing out temp tracking ideas and see what kinds of musical ideas work. So far so good, actually it's weird that for once Logic seems to be fine with keeping the video in mp4 format without needing to be pre-transcoded to MJPEG or some other format first. In the past (Logic 9 and earlier), the user interface became practically unusable when you worked to mp4 video, especially a long video. This is clearly a Logic X thing and not the rMB specifically because it seems to be the same on the iMac. But hey, that's at least one nice thing about Logic X, apart from that I'm still not particularly convinced. The current project I'm on is the first one we're attempting to do with Logic X, it was just not at all fit for use until now with so many bugs and missing features... now it seems almost ready although yesterday I hit a major repeatable bug which luckily I found a workaround for or we'd be in trouble...

 

[Harleg]

Thanks for the feedback.

I have older versions of Logic X and GB on my MBP, and they are very different programs indeed. When I fired up GB at the Apple store last week, the visual layout and interface appeared identical to X, at least my version. My brother said that there were functionality differences, but the ecosystems were virtually the same now. Neither program has been very CPU-friendly on my MPB; hopefully they've cleaned up the code. And I'm sure the fast ssd will really help with virtual memory.

What music-related forums are you on? It's been awhile, but I remember hanging at vi-control and kvr quite a bit.

 

[tbirdparis]

Not really on the music forums much anymore but I do check in occasionally at gearslutz. mostly around the times when I'm thinking of buying something new and scoping it out. Pretty much the same reason why I ended up here.

 

[where is it]

I haven’t seen much feedback from designers using the MacBook, so I wanted to share a couple observations. I debated getting one after reading all the mediocre tech press reviews — my current setup being a 5k iMac and a 15” rMBP (2012 model). I fully expected to be returning the MacBook and just waiting on a 15” redesign — but I was curious so I had to try it out. After a week I have to say it’s my favorite laptop ever and I doubt I’ll ever use anything bigger or heavier again.

My biggest concerns were performance (Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator are resource hogs) and screen size (can I really design on a 12-inch screen?) Both concerns were alleviated pretty quickly.

This week I edited a huge 1 GB Photoshop file (poster) containing multiple layers. Interacting with the file changing type, color, masking, moving things around, etc. is just as responsive as my 5k iMac. The only time I felt the performance drop was changing the resolution of the entire file and saving it. With a file that big, I still have to wait on my iMac anyway. At the end of the day, I don’t think you lose much (any?) real-world efficiency using Adobe’s apps on the MacBook. As others have stated, there can be a little UI jerkiness, which I especially find in InDesign, but this is more of an annoyance than anything that really affects how quickly you can accomplish a task. The other issue is screen size — Adobe’s UI takes up a ton of space. But you’re going to feel this no matter which laptop size you use. Nothing beats a large monitor for design. My MacBook is a supplemental computer and I can easily accept its limitations. I’m not using its screen all day.

In the past week I’ve found myself using the MacBook everywhere — in the doctor waiting room, riding shotgun, out on the patio. I just carry it naked like a book and go. No messing with a bag. It doesn’t even feel like a machine. I never did all this with a 15” — it was a hassle to take places, even from room to room. It’s a pretty profound change.

I had always hoped the iPad would turn into something I could use for real work — to edit my files from anywhere. It’s great to have something JUST as portable as an iPad that can do EVERYTHING I need it to do. Maybe it's a little slow, and people will complain about the specs, but I think I understand why Apple made it. It's a different, better mobile experience than I've ever had before.

Excellent feedback - thanks.

 

[c.s.]

I wanted to revive this now that I've been using the rMB for over a year. Mostly I wanted to remind myself why I'd rather have a rMB than one of the new MBP's!

My family took a few trips this summer and I was so glad to have the rMB. The total weight in the backpack when you factor the weight of the device AND the power brick still amazes me. It's surprisingly easy to use while sitting in the passenger seat of a car -- I did quite a bit of work this way on longer road trips. And I've definitely found that I carry it more places because it feels more like a book or an iPad.

Performance for graphic design STILL does not annoy me. That 1.1 processor definitely feels slower than my iMac, but you adapt pretty quickly on the road. UI responsiveness still works great in Photoshop and InDesign. The bigger drawback is the screen size. I think it's the ideal notebook for making edits or working on smaller projects, but I find my eyes getting fatigued if I have to use it for more than an hour in a program like InDesign. It's harder to drill down in such a detailed program with so many menus. Photoshop, on the other hand, has a great full screen mode and I don't mind any type of project with it on the rMB - including posters and larger PSD's with lots of layers. Obviously a full desktop setup is more efficient and comfortable for experimentation and being creative. But a lot of your work as a graphics professional is just dealing with a mountain of edits or tweaking files. For that, it's the perfect road machine.

Would I appreciate an extra inch of screen real estate or 16 GB of RAM? Probably, but that's a more expensive, heavier machine & power brick. I did check out the non-touchbar MBP at the Apple store and it's a nice weight. It still felt a little wobbly in my hand, though. I decided I'm too happy with my current setup to drop $2000 on something.

I haven’t seen much feedback from designers using the MacBook, so I wanted to share a couple observations. I debated getting one after reading all the mediocre tech press reviews — my current setup being a 5k iMac and a 15” rMBP (2012 model). I fully expected to be returning the MacBook and just waiting on a 15” redesign — but I was curious so I had to try it out. After a week I have to say it’s my favorite laptop ever and I doubt I’ll ever use anything bigger or heavier again.

My biggest concerns were performance (Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator are resource hogs) and screen size (can I really design on a 12-inch screen?) Both concerns were alleviated pretty quickly.

This week I edited a huge 1 GB Photoshop file (poster) containing multiple layers. Interacting with the file changing type, color, masking, moving things around, etc. is just as responsive as my 5k iMac. The only time I felt the performance drop was changing the resolution of the entire file and saving it. With a file that big, I still have to wait on my iMac anyway. At the end of the day, I don’t think you lose much (any?) real-world efficiency using Adobe’s apps on the MacBook. As others have stated, there can be a little UI jerkiness, which I especially find in InDesign, but this is more of an annoyance than anything that really affects how quickly you can accomplish a task. The other issue is screen size — Adobe’s UI takes up a ton of space. But you’re going to feel this no matter which laptop size you use. Nothing beats a large monitor for design. My MacBook is a supplemental computer and I can easily accept its limitations. I’m not using its screen all day.

In the past week I’ve found myself using the MacBook everywhere — in the doctor waiting room, riding shotgun, out on the patio. I just carry it naked like a book and go. No messing with a bag. It doesn’t even feel like a machine. I never did all this with a 15” — it was a hassle to take places, even from room to room. It’s a pretty profound change.

I had always hoped the iPad would turn into something I could use for real work — to edit my files from anywhere. It’s great to have something JUST as portable as an iPad that can do EVERYTHING I need it to do. Maybe it's a little slow, and people will complain about the specs, but I think I understand why Apple made it. It's a different, better mobile experience than I've ever had before.

 

[Yr Blues]

Thanks for the write-up. I do both graphic design (mostly branding; logo, cards, and stationery design) and music production (singer/songwriter demos and MIDI instrument arrangements in Reaper).

My favorite MacBook in the world was the 12" PowerBook. I'm waiting for the next 12" MacBook update.

 

[Harleg]

Thanks for the update. B&H had these on sale for $700! I was all in, but didn't have the bread in hand... DOH!

 

[pika2000]

The Core M chips are quite amazing. Even the integrated GPU, especially the skylake version, is not too shabby. A lot of people scoff at these chips simply because of the marketing intel themselves are pushing to make people think they need a core i7 to do anything. I have a Windows convertible with an m7, and I'm surprised how it can run games quite well.

 

[casperghst42]

The only reason why I've not yet upgrade my very old (2011) 11" Air to an Macbook is the lack of 2 ports - and thunderbolt. With that it would be a no brainer ... I am still waiting, hopefully not in wain.

 

[T-Bob75]

I've been consider a 12" rMP for a while for design and this thread is encouraging. Most of my design work is done in illustrator and photoshop. I have an old 2009 MBP core 2 duo, and it's beginning to show its age in CC. I use a a mac pro at work and I'm looking to replace my personnal laptop with something newer. I have been looking at 2015 MBP's and I was thinking of getting one of those as I can't afford one of the new ones. But I found this thread and it's raise some thoughts again about maybe getting a 12" rMP

Has anyone used illustrator heavily on a 12" rMP? It terms of processing power how did it cope? I was thinking of getting an external monitor to have more real estate when need. But I kind of like the idea of something so portable it almost feels like a sketch pad.

 

[Gregintosh]

First of all, EXCELLENT thread. This one is a keeper, probably the most detailed thread I have ever seen on the actual experience of using the MacBook.

The only reason why I've not yet upgrade my very old (2011) 11" Air to an Macbook is the lack of 2 ports - and thunderbolt. With that it would be a no brainer ... I am still waiting, hopefully not in wain.

Unfortunately, your waiting is in vain. You can bet your bottom dollar the amount of ports will remain the same all through this design. Maybe in 2 or 3 years when they do a major design overhaul they'll add a second port (though by then wired accessories might be a thing of the past anyway so maybe not).

One reason they won't add a 2nd port is because the MBP 13 without the touch bar has 2 ports, and they will just tell you that if you need more than one port you should be buying the pro machine. It's a crappy argument, but that is typical Apple logic. If the MBr had 2 ports there would be that much less reason to upgrade to the pro.

Even if they were to add a 2nd port it would be a USB-C port. Apple will not include any other ports for connectivity on *any* of their computers going forward. USB-C is here to stay, so waiting for a thunderbolt port that isn't USB-C shaped is waiting for something that will never happen.

I have been looking at 2015 MBP's and I was thinking of getting one of those as I can't afford one of the new ones. But I found this thread and it's raise some thoughts again about maybe getting a 12" rMP

Has anyone used illustrator heavily on a 12" rMP? It terms of processing power how did it cope? I was thinking of getting an external monitor to have more real estate when need. But I kind of like the idea of something so portable it almost feels like a sketch pad.

I would check eBay. I just ordered a current generation (2016) base model in excellent condition still under warranty for another 5 months for $914 shipped.

The reason you want to go with 2016 and 2015 is that the 2016 models support 4K @ 60Hz, so you can use a 4K monitor for an awesome experience. With the 2015 you will be stuck at 30Hz which is unusable, or at least very infuriating. Or worse, you'll be stuck using low resolution (non-retina) monitors.

Plus you get all the speed enhancements and an extra hour of battery of the new model. Worth the extra couple bucks, especially if you do decide to go the eBay route like I did.

 

[Jayderek]

The reason you want to go with 2016 and 2015 is that the 2016 models support 4K @ 60Hz, so you can use a 4K monitor for an awesome experience.

I may be wrong here, but doesn't OS Sierra enable the 2015 to support 4K @ 60Hz now?

 

[Gregintosh]

I may be wrong here, but doesn't OS Sierra enable the 2015 to support 4K @ 60Hz now?

I thought so too but then I saw this Apple support document:

MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015) and later, as well as late-2016 MacBook Pro models, support these resolutions and refresh rates over HDMI 1.4b using the USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter:

• 3840x2160 at 30 Hz refresh rate
• 4096x2160 at 24 Hz refresh rate (mirroring is not supported at this resolution)

MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2016) and late-2016 MacBook Pro models support 60Hz refresh rates over HDMI when used with a supported HDMI 2.0 display, an HDMI Premium Certified cable, and a supported USB-C to HDMI 2.0 adapter.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206587

It does appear later in the same document that the 2015 supports it over USB-C to display port alt-mode. You'd just have to rely on a DP monitor like the LG which supports that, but not HDMI. So it just limits your options a bit.

 

[Macalway]

I'm really chomping at the bit for a decent update. All these Pro models (I own one) don't do it for me, so I need them to spruce up this model. Not that it's lacking, but there's a few things they could do to it, besides Baby Lake cpu.

(I sound like a broken record)

 

[T-Bob75]

Definitely can't wait either for the Macbooks. I'm still a little undecided if i should get a 13" pro with the touch bar or the 12"Macbook. I did try the 13" pro with the touch bar in the apple store and although nice, I'm not sure what the real benefits are having the touch bar. I'd use keyboard shortcuts for Adobe CC anyway.

Pricing out both machines. A maxed out macbook M7 would be £1684 and a max out Macbook Pro 13" is £2219.

Would I notice a performance difference between the two for £535?

 

[Eric8199]

Definitely can't wait either for the Macbooks. I'm still a little undecided if i should get a 13" pro with the touch bar or the 12"Macbook. I did try the 13" pro with the touch bar in the apple store and although nice, I'm not sure what the real benefits are having the touch bar. I'd use keyboard shortcuts for Adobe CC anyway.

Pricing out both machines. A maxed out macbook M7 would be £1684 and a max out Macbook Pro 13" is £2219.

Would I notice a performance difference between the two for £535?

Yes, you'll notice a performance difference, especially in CC. I only have the base 12" but Premiere is unusable on it. The touch bar is pretty useless, but the performance boost in CC would be pretty significant between these machines.

 

[Savor]

After a week I have to say it’s my favorite laptop ever and I doubt I’ll ever use anything bigger or heavier again.

Most ideal MacBook footprint ever. Waiting for the 2017 or 2018 versions for it as it starts to peak in its 3rd and 4th generation. I would pay the extra few hundred bucks over an iPad Pro which has a larger footprint and OS X is far more productive than iOS because it can recognize USB drives and has a folder system. The 2016 MacBook Pro followed the path of the 12' MacBook removing ports, USB-C only, and glowing Apple logo from 2015 because the Air all had that. Apple should make the 12" MacBook the entry-level model to replace the 11" and 13" Airs.

The 12" MacBook is equal to the iPad minis and iPhone SE among all MacBooks. PERFECT SIZE for notebook portability. I love my 2015 13" Air but the size just a bit too much and the display isn't Retina. Since I prefer Android and many of the recent flagships are already USB-C, I will bring that and a 12" MB when I travel while the Air can be used mostly at home for transferring files with USB-A and has longer battery life. My priorities in getting a smartphone, tablet, or notebook has always been more about battery life and size.

I was thinking getting the silver MacBook to match my Air and also because silver doesn't show fingerprints as much but the gold seems to be kinda calling me because my LG smartphone also has that gold and black combination which I love. Probably 70/30 going for the classic silver since I plan to get my next car in silver. Shows less dirt than darker and lighter ones but the gold MB is surprisingly very nice and isn't as gaudy to me as the gold iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S6 edge/S7 edge thanks to the black display and keyboard.

 

[robotman2009]

Love this post! It shows that the 12" macbook is the little engine that could. Ive had one since june of 2015. For most users, its more than enough. The point of departure for getting it seems to come if you need more than two monitors, something that has alot of power alot of the time or do some intense gaming. I love my macbook...the only times ive wondered about it is when there is a game I want to play and its just not enough machine to play it.

The portability issue is key imho...the more portable something is the more you will carry it and the more you will have it with you. I love how this little computer is ssooooo light. Ive always hated carrying around heavy laptops...carrying this one has always been a pleasure.

 

[Gmouse]

My experience is similar to the others in this thread. I have the 2015 rMB 1.3/512 G, and have come to prefer it to my iPad Pro (original) and find that it pretty much handles anything I throw at it, maybe a tad slower, but, not terribly so. I actually took a PhotoShop and LightRoom course using it, and was able to edit and work with multiple photos that were 1-2 GB, both JPG and RAW, and had no issues with it handling the load. I can notice, slightly, that it will slow somewhat after 5-10 minutes of hard use, and is very warm, so assume it is throttling (at this, I'd want to get the 2016 rMB, but, will live with what I have). The size and weight are perfect for traveling and occasional use, and I never use my Win 10 laptop anymore, as the rMB does everything I need (I have a subscription to Office 365). I've kept the SSD fairly small so I have a lot of free space, so no issues with slowness there. I don't really play games much, but, have played Doom 3 and Quake, both of which run OK at native resolution with average settings. All in all, it's great--best Apple product I've ever purchased.

 

[c.s.]

Just wondering if any designers out there went from the 2015 -> 2017 model and noticed a significant bump in Photoshop/InDesign/Illustrator performance. Did you opt for 16 GB of RAM?