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What do you think Apple is doing?


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Septillion

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 17, 2013
45
5
China
Obviously, this feature depends heavily on the m-series motion co-processors of the 64 bit chip Apple shipped since iPhone 5s and iPad Air, why is it exclusive to only iPhone 6s? The only thing m9 brought is always-on Hey Siri. And for those who possess iPad Pros, does this feature work on those?

I want to believe Apple is working on bringing Raise to Wake to older devices, otherwise it's gonna be a real pain in the, you know.

[update] at beta four, I think we're done here.
 
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Mlrollin91

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Nov 20, 2008
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I highly doubt they are working on it for older devices. No different than Hey Siri while unplugged. New hardware, new features. Or why the iPad 2 never got Siri, while iPad Mini 1 did, even though it was the same hardware.
 

lagwagon

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Not even all M9 coprocessors are made equal either apparently.

12.9" Pro doesn't have Always On Hey Siri, while the 9.7" Pro does.

At this stage (beta 3) it's looking very doubtful Raise to Wake is coming to other devices.
 
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Mlrollin91

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Nov 20, 2008
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The difference between iPad 2 and iPad mini 1 are even though they both have the A5, they are different chips. iPad 2 had a first gen A5 at a 45nm process. iPad mini 1 uses a second gen A5 with a 32nm process.

That may be so, but the person I quoted said it was because of dual mics, which is not the case. And just as you stated as well, it appears not all M9s are made the same or have same functionality.

But going back to my original point. This won't be added to older devices because one simple reason, thats no how Apple goes about things. New features require new hardware, even if there is no true reason of why it can't be done.
 

TurboPGT!

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Sep 25, 2015
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The only thing m9 brought is always-on Hey Siri.

What do you know about the M9?

I really no tolerance for people that are SO ignorant of technical detail, and yet still have to have their opinion, as if it were the least bit informed.
 

swordfish5736

macrumors 68000
Jun 29, 2007
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The m9 is a different beast than the m7/m8. The m9 is on die with the CPU and the older two only have access to the less accurate accelerometer while the m9 also has the better gyroscope at its disposal. I'd guess apple decided the less accurate accelerometer the m7/m8 have did not perform well enough for the raise to wake feature.
 

lagwagon

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The m9 is a different beast than the m7/m8. The m9 is on die with the CPU and the older two only have access to the less accurate accelerometer while the m9 also has the better gyroscope at its disposal. I'd guess apple decided the less accurate accelerometer the m7/m8 have did not perform well enough for the raise to wake feature.

That's only half true. The part about it the accelerometer/gyroscope is false.

The differences between an M9 and M8 are the Always On Siri, and that it can track pace without GPS (just like the S1 chip can track pace without GPS in the Apple Watch.)

http://forums.appleinsider.com/disc...-iphone-6s-track-pace-make-hey-siri-always-on
 

TurboPGT!

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That's only half true. The part about it the accelerometer/gyroscope is false.

The differences between an M9 and M8 are the Always On Siri, and that it can track pace without GPS (just like the S1 chip can track pace without GPS in the Apple Watch.)

http://forums.appleinsider.com/disc...-iphone-6s-track-pace-make-hey-siri-always-on
Those are not the differences. Those are the user-facing-features that you're aware of.

It is ok for you to not know or understand the difference between the two chips.
It is not ok for you to pretend that you do know the difference because you can read a bullet point on a marquee.
 
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lagwagon

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Those are not the differences. Those are the user-facing-features that you're aware of.

It is ok for you to not know or understand the difference between the two chips.
It is not ok for you to pretend that you do know the difference because you can read a bullet point on a marquee.

Did you even read the link I posted? It says all the differences. Or were you just too busy being an angry nerd? Saying no one knows what the difference is and then not enlightening us with your apparent vast, superior knowledge on the subject.
 
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TurboPGT!

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Did you even read the link I posted? It says all the differences. Or were you just too busy being an angry nerd? Saying no one knows what the difference is and then not enlightening us with your apparent vast, superior knowledge on the subject.
...your linked article references user facing features...the exact thing I criticized you for citing. The tangible and identifiable ways in which Apple has incorporated M9 have nothing to do with what it is capable of.
 
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swordfish5736

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That's only half true. The part about it the accelerometer/gyroscope is false.

The differences between an M9 and M8 are the Always On Siri, and that it can track pace without GPS (just like the S1 chip can track pace without GPS in the Apple Watch.)

http://forums.appleinsider.com/disc...-iphone-6s-track-pace-make-hey-siri-always-on

Like turbo said those are the features that are possible because of the M9. The part about the accelerometer/gyroscope are most definitely true. The M7/M8 contain a low power/low accuracy accelerometer that can be used for things like tracking steps. When you start playing a game or rotating your screen around the phone is going to be using the more precise but power hungry accelerometer/gyroscope that is a separate IC on the logic board. The M9 uses a more precise accelerometer/gyroscope that allows for it to track pace without GPS.

Ifixit outlined the components when they tore the iPhone 6 apart, Step 15 shows the gyro and 17 shows the M8 for an iPhone 6.
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+6+Teardown/29213
 
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lagwagon

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...your linked article references user facing features...the exact thing I criticized you for citing. The tangible and identifiable ways in which Apple has incorporated M9 have nothing to do with what it is capable of.

It says what the M9 is capable of apart from the older M7 and M8. It literally does nothing more than it being Always On to enable the Always On Hey Siri and enables better pace tracking without GPS. And because it's built into the CPU it can consume less power vs the older versions.

Those are literally the only differences. Nothing it does aside from doing its job at a lower power consumption makes it any more capable of Raise to Wake. Jailbreak tweaks have already proven that older M7 and M8 can do the same thing. Apple probably did not want the extra power consumption on older devices because they don't have the more power efficient coprocessor. It's just a chip designed to take the work away from the CPU for collecting sensor data and do it in a way that costs less power vs if the CPU had to.

Still waiting for you to tell us all what we're so wrong about. Since you seem to know everything on the subject. Enlighten us oh wise one!
[doublepost=1468957295][/doublepost]
The M7/M8 contain a low power/low accuracy accelerometer that can be used for things like tracking steps.

Oh boy. Do you not realize that the gyroscope and accelerometer are not part of the coprocessor? They are separate sensors. And the job of the coprocessor is to just collect data from the THOSE phone sensors so the CPU doesn't have to. And does it at a lower power cost.
 
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0928001

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Could not be a more tired trope. IPad 2, like the iPhone 4, never got Siri because it never had dual mics with noise cancellation. Simple as that. No conspiracy.

Actually it was because the A5 variant in the iPad 2 didn't have the hardware voice recognition that Siri required. All A5 chips manufactured, beginning with the 4S, did.
 
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Feenician

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Jun 13, 2016
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Except you are wrong. iPad Mini 1 did not have dual mics, that was added with the iPad Mini 2.

I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong and you're right about the the dual mics. I misremembered the timeline. in fact the A5 variant incorporated in the iPhone 4s was the first to have the Audience technology built in (and the last I believe. The iPhone 5 and above had Apple's own technology) where the iPhone 4 had a co-processor. Since the 4s and iPad mini 2 were produced after the iPad 2 its reasonable to think that they both had this variant.

Or you can whine about planned obsolescence, whatever you prefer (and I think we know what you prefer).
[doublepost=1468958502][/doublepost]
Actually it was because the A5 variant in the iPad 2 didn't have the hardware voice recognition that Siri required. All A5 chips manufactured, beginning with the 4S, did.

Yep, thanks. I answered last night right before bed and was at work early so this is the first chance I've had to respond.
 
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Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
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I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong and you're right about the the dual mics. I misremembered the timeline. in fact the A5 variant incorporated in the iPhone 4s was the first to have the Audience technology built in (and the last I believe. The iPhone 5 and above had Apple's own technology) where the iPhone 4 had a co-processor. Since the 4s and iPad mini 2 were produced after the iPad 2 its reasonable to think that they both had this variant.

Or you can whine about planned obsolescence, whatever you prefer (and I think we know what you prefer)

I do not believe in planned obsolescence in the slightest. But when you have very similar hardware, I believe the features should be the same. I fully understand that there are hardware limitations and that is why planned obsolescence does not exist. As hardware ages and software includes more features it's only natural for devices to slow down and die off.
 

Feenician

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
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I do not believe in planned obsolescence in the slightest. But when you have very similar hardware, I believe the features should be the same. I fully understand that there are hardware limitations and that is why planned obsolescence does not exist. As hardware ages and software includes more features it's only natural for devices to slow down and die off.

Very similar =/= the same. If the hardware is very similar but lacks a required feature then their similarity is quite irrelevant.
 

Septillion

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 17, 2013
45
5
China
I highly doubt they are working on it for older devices. No different than Hey Siri while unplugged. New hardware, new features. Or why the iPad 2 never got Siri, while iPad Mini 1 did, even though it was the same hardware.

You have a point. While the iPad mini 1 support blur effects almost flawlessly, the iPad 2 doesn't. This eventually drove me into buying a iPad Air when iOS 7 came out.
[doublepost=1469156141][/doublepost]
Not even all M9 coprocessors are made equal either apparently.

12.9" Pro doesn't have Always On Hey Siri, while the 9.7" Pro does.

At this stage (beta 3) it's looking very doubtful Raise to Wake is coming to other devices.

Wow that is brutal.
 

stulaw11

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Jan 25, 2012
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Did you even read the link I posted? It says all the differences. Or were you just too busy being an angry nerd? Saying no one knows what the difference is and then not enlightening us with your apparent vast, superior knowledge on the subject.

Dont waste your breathe. This is the same poster on somme crusade against the idea Raise to Wake ONLY WORKS ON THE 6S/S PLUS/SE M9.

It's too complex a thought to understand apparently.
 

Septillion

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 17, 2013
45
5
China
The m9 is a different beast than the m7/m8. The m9 is on die with the CPU and the older two only have access to the less accurate accelerometer while the m9 also has the better gyroscope at its disposal. I'd guess apple decided the less accurate accelerometer the m7/m8 have did not perform well enough for the raise to wake feature.

This might be it. Although it didn't really convince me. Accelerometers are good enough for the phone to know it's being picked up, aren't they? When you're picking up a phone from the desk, the acceleration is changing.

But you're probably right. Apple may need the gyro to know the phone's orientation to more accurately trigger the "wake" like they did with the watch.
[doublepost=1469156905][/doublepost]
...your linked article references user facing features...the exact thing I criticized you for citing. The tangible and identifiable ways in which Apple has incorporated M9 have nothing to do with what it is capable of.

Hey dude, stop complaining! If you're the guy who knows everything, lighten us up!
[doublepost=1469157034][/doublepost]
I do not believe in planned obsolescence in the slightest. But when you have very similar hardware, I believe the features should be the same. I fully understand that there are hardware limitations and that is why planned obsolescence does not exist. As hardware ages and software includes more features it's only natural for devices to slow down and die off.

With the leaks and everything, everyone knows what Apple is doing, but no one knows what it's thinking. Or is it anyway?
[doublepost=1469157303][/doublepost]
That's only half true. The part about it the accelerometer/gyroscope is false.

The differences between an M9 and M8 are the Always On Siri, and that it can track pace without GPS (just like the S1 chip can track pace without GPS in the Apple Watch.)

http://forums.appleinsider.com/disc...-iphone-6s-track-pace-make-hey-siri-always-on

I thought M8 already has the ability, other wise the iPhone 6 is gonna drain a hell lot of power in the background since you can't really turn the tracking off.

In the health app (on a iPhone 6), just under the pedometer, it shows how many miles you've walked. I think the phone is able to work that out without GPS.

Point me out if I'm wrong.
[doublepost=1469157892][/doublepost]
Not even all M9 coprocessors are made equal either apparently.

12.9" Pro doesn't have Always On Hey Siri, while the 9.7" Pro does.

At this stage (beta 3) it's looking very doubtful Raise to Wake is coming to other devices.

But I personally don't think it's too much of a deal with the iPads. You can always flip the Smart Cover and it lights up, then just press the Touch ID.
 

GrumpyTrucker

macrumors 6502a
Jun 1, 2014
635
273
If people can stop throwing insults around at each other for a minute :p , can I ask a possibly stupid question? There was a "raise to speak" feature (briefly) in iOS 7 that didn't require the current modern M9 or better. That was replaced by the press button "hey Siri" feature. If there was previously a "raise to..." feature on what are now older devices, anyone know why it was discontinued and/or why it is suddenly therefore not possible on older devices now?
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,388
19,455
If people can stop throwing insults around at each other for a minute :p , can I ask a possibly stupid question? There was a "raise to speak" feature (briefly) in iOS 7 that didn't require the current modern M9 or better. That was replaced by the press button "hey Siri" feature. If there was previously a "raise to..." feature on what are now older devices, anyone know why it was discontinued and/or why it is suddenly therefore not possible on older devices now?
I believe the functionality of that feature was somewhat different in that that it would only work when the device was already unlocked with the screen on and then placed to the ear so that the basic proximity sensor (that has been in use for a long time to turn off the screen when someone is taking on the phone) could be used to start that feature at that time.
 
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