So buggy.
I even went into a few stores in the mall to see if iOS 16 is equally buggy on their 14s and it definitely is.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
A16 Chip in iPhone 14 Pro Reportedly Costs Apple Over Twice as Much as A15 Chip
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I even went into a few stores in the mall to see if iOS 16 is equally buggy on their 14s and it definitely is.
Certainly possible but despite various Pro/Pro Max improvements over the years, U.S. prices have remained the same since they were introduced in 2019 (yes, there were price increases in other countries but primarily due to currency exchange rates). The 256GB and 512GB versions are actually $50 cheaper than they were in 2019.
Adjusting for inflation alone, this year's Pro/Pro Max prices could've been about 15% higher than they were in 2019 but remained unchanged.
Apple is doomed. Again. Shareholders will be taking to the streets.
Please pass your assessment (based on rumors and reporting) on to Mr. Cook and Mr. Srouji so they can prepare and quickly adopt your superior strategy going forward while there's still time. They probably know little about pricing, COGS, and ultimately GPM, and how that drives Wall Street assessment.
If you could provide them with a better silicon and product roadmap along with some COGS/GPM wisdom, and how Wall Street works knowledge, there may be time to save Apple from demise.
Incorrect. The A16 is manufactured on TSMC's N4 process, which is a 5 nm variant. How about doing a little actual journalism MacRumors, instead of just blindly repeating what you've heard?
I'm hardly a professional tech journalist, and even I was aware of this information.
Source:
TSMC Expands Advanced Technology Leadership with N4P Process|Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C., Oct. 26, 2021 - TSMC (TWSE: 2330, NYSE: TSM) today introduced its N4P process, a performance-focused enhancement of the 5-nanometer technology platform.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A16
Fully agree: this site, and then some(!) are truly pathetic for not doing any research on a rumour. It's all "First!", clickbait, and ads.Incorrect. The A16 is manufactured on TSMC's N4 process, which is a 5 nm variant. How about doing a little actual journalism MacRumors, instead of just blindly repeating what you've heard?
I'm hardly a professional tech journalist, and even I was aware of this information.
View attachment 2091020
Source:TSMC Expands Advanced Technology Leadership with N4P Process|Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C., Oct. 26, 2021 - TSMC (TWSE: 2330, NYSE: TSM) today introduced its N4P process, a performance-focused enhancement of the 5-nanometer technology platform.pr.tsmc.com
View attachment 2091018
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A16
You know, if a site simply puts out a single, well researched and biased article (call it a long read) once a week I'd keep on getting back. But it's all about churning out as many articles as possible. lol, 'articles'.
Not only apple. QC and Mediatek would not be able to ask that much money from OEMs.
QC would have moved the 8gen 1 to N5 and still have a significant efficiency gain without costing it much more.
But there has been no news about QC charging more money for the 8+gen1.
I call it fake.
Energy saving is a huge deal for the generation of iPhone that introduced always on display. 4nm is probably what apple was waiting for to release the feature. Also, working with 48Mp proraw and ProRes for the first time, it makes sense why a faster chip would be needed. And why Apple waited as long as they did to increase resolution. The video and photo processing requirements definitely received a boost. Also, the A15bionic is the testing ground for the 4nm M-series chips we’ll likely see soon. Since m2 is just bigger m1 with little substantive difference, we’ll likely see more differentiations when we start seeing M3 or whatever they choose to call the 4nm Mac silicon.
i bought a 14 Pro Max last night. My 12 was a complete pos. Nice device, hoping not to have to upgrade for 3-4 years
It's not exactly like this. The CPU itself (big) has more cache (16 vs 12MB in A15) which speaks for different architecture.
What is between 3 and 5? It's 4nm but in 5N family. Different things. The process is still more dense than before.
It's the same with new PS5 revision based on 6nm vs 7nm in launch units. It's still part of 7N(P), but its 6nm.
p.p. Fun fact - I added most of the stuff in this A16 / Apple silicon Wiki page.
If you bothered to read my original post. I already stated I am very dubious about such a price increase on the silicon. I mentioned “IF”… and repeated it twice in caps.
If they agreed to a doubling of cost it’s NOT a good deal. Period. Apple has been tremendously successful at squeezing their suppliers for every penny they can.
When I DID work for Samsung back in the early 2000s we couldn’t source solid state memory for our own mobile devices from our own peers at Samsung Semiconductors for as little as Apple was able to.
Think about that. They had a better deal than we could get internal to our own corporation?!?!?
This doesn’t happen by accident. And guess what. You can actually credit Tim Cook to much of that. Like I said he knows Supply Chain Management. He’s an expert at it and has a long career dating back to his days at Compaq being successful managing SCM.
So this doesn’t seem like the sort of deal that would fly with him. Unless they were really over a barrel for the parts. And if that is the case it’s not a good sign. Not at all.
Prices are unlikely to come down once they have gone up so much.
This is assuming the rumor is true.
Now. Please stop with the condescending commentary and personal attacks. Your tone is offensive and tedious.
The "charging more" is largely tied to exchange rates. Apple actually charges less than U.S. prices in various countries. In Germany, for example, a 128GB iPhone 14 is €834 (excluding VAT) which at the current exchange rate is equal to around $813 USD. This is actually lower than the $829 U.S. price (excluding sales tax).
"Now. Please stop with the condescending commentary... "
How about you doing the same? That's twice now with the flip "If you bothered to..." presumptions, insinuating I'm lazy or don't read.
Again, once more, I'm well aware of TC's background going back to Compaq, having worked in Silicon Valley for many years.
And, working for a large US semiconductor company after they acquired the small Silicon Valley fabless semiconductor company startup I was part of (specializing in full-custom high-speed communications/signal-processing ASICs), I'm well aware that large semiconductor companies play favorites for foundry services sometimes being at odds with internal projects. I'm also very aware of the supply constraints around 2000 that forced us to go with Samsung for foundry services after our long-time foundry (Atmel/ES2) could not take our business timely.
"This doesn’t happen by accident. And guess what. You can actually credit Tim Cook to much of that."
I'd give credit to TC for signing off on the decision after consulting with various project managers, a VP(s), Johny Srouji, Apple product/road map strategists, technical leads, supply chain managers, etc. making their case. TC doesn't work in a vacuum making casual decisions on a whim.
As CEO of Apple I suspect he has a a ton of daily issues to deal with simply running a company of 150,000+ employees; and that he doesn't manage or micro manage supply chain issues/strategy, leaving that to the supply chain managers Apple has on its payroll.
My theory is they there's a much larger strategy in play, and/or inaccurate information, or an unforeseen issue/problem (unexpected poor yields - which would hopefully improve going forward). And even though the A16 in the end may (in my mind a big maybe considering the source of the information) have cost twice the A15 cost (I'm skeptical), it was destined for the more expensive Pro iPhone 14 models which could be dealt with a retail price adjustment (40% GPM on the extra cost) to account for that and keep Wall Street happy. There was no way Apple would withhold the pricier Pro models or accept a less powerful chip to power them.
On the first point. Yes ok I’ll concede that the language I used could have been seen as condescending though it was not my intent. So please accept my apology there.
That said, I really don’t want to get into a @@@@ measuring contest here. Seriously it’s not worth either of our time. You’ve got your experience and I have mine.
I agree with you and believe I already did in my prior message. Of course he would have signed off on something like that. It’s not the sort of change that goes totally unnoticed on a flagship product. However as you have stated and I agree… I’m skeptical of this claim of 2.4 or 2.5x the price. It’s just beyond reason even factoring inflation.
I see very limited circumstances that would justify accepting a 2.5x price increase unless their single supplier simply had them over a barrel. But here is the deal. As I’m sure you know (and I don’t mean to be condescending here) the prices of these components are negotiated often a year or even two before they are manufactured. So again I’m suspicious of such a significant price increase being agreed to so far in advance of the conclusion of the pandemic. Unless there was an absolute sense of desperation due to work force constraints.
I do NOT think this was a matter of yield quality. It’s just not something that would present itself so late in the game as a point of negotiation. TSMC would most likely eat the cost especially if contracts were negotiated as they had been previously.
Another scenario could be that the cost of procurement mentioned was inflated for other reasons. Shipping, taxes, export fees etc. Supply chain constraints have definitely impacted distribution and supply chains.
Bottom line is. If this is true. Someone really screwed up somewhere. I don’t think they’re just going to accept this cost going forward. And if they do then it means something else is very wrong with the supply chain. And I’m NOT blaming Apple for this. They may have no alternative.
If this is true I’d like to know just why the cost is so much greater than the A15. That would give significant insights into what could also impact others in the semiconductor industry.
I hope this message is a bit better received than the last. (And like I said, I’m not trying to attack you.)
One more thing: Yes. I totally agree that no matter the circumstances there is no way Apple would be so blatant to not include a processor refresh in the flagship devices. Even at 2.5x the cost it’s not worth the potential hit towards sales and the PR fiasco that could cost. But yeah… this really needs to be proven before speculating further. There is just no way of knowing until better sources come forward.
Last edited:
Thank you and I apologize to you as well.
Well... it's a new process. The A15 is on an older/different process.
Apple is paying for wafer starts, so if half the expected good die are bad then the cost per die will double. Again that would be an unexpected outcome. That happening so close to product launch Apple would roll with it and add an extra 40% GPM for the increased die cost, and move on. They're not going to cancel the 14 Pro/ProMax launch at that point.
I have a ton of respect for Johny Srouji, and he no doubt had a huge say in the matter.
It’s completely irrelevant stating pre VAT prices though as that is not what the consumer pays or see as the advertised price. I keep seeing Americans on here telling others that iPhones are cheap in the UK and quoting a price with 20% VAT removed, but that is not the actual price that consumers pay or see advertised. Everything we buy here includes VAT whether it’s a litre of milk or a newspaper. Nobody looks at a RRP and deducts VAT to justify whether something is good value as all that counts is the actual price any product costs. Different mindsets in different countries I would say.
It must have been huge for you because I notice a big difference from my 12 pro max! Its a great chip!
Um no…. There is no slightly to it a BILLION more transistors is HUGE! It shows very quickly when you get on the pro max which I have in space black…. I absolutely love it!
If thats the case you are smoking crack to heavily and need to backup half ….