A7 chip versus XBox One

[CosmoPilot]

What about an AppleTV with a beefed up A7X/A8, etc.? If using an AppleTV as the console, iCloud as the storage, and iPhones/iPads/iTouch as controllers. You've got yourself a lot of computing power when looking at the system as a whole.

Currently, traditional gaming consoles provide a box (computer and storage) and a dumb controller (no computing power). Is it not possible to leverage the computing power of an iDevices with the computing power of a beefed up AppleTV while taking advantage of iCloud resources? 3 separate parts, combining resources to create a powerful system.

Taken at face value, the A7 isn't going to replace an Xbox. Nor, is the iPhone going to replace the desire of hard-core gamers to play on a big screen. But it appears Apple has all the pieces necessary to revolutionize gaming.

Imagine going to a friends house while they are playing. All you have to do is whip out your iPhone, and start playing as well.

 

[mKTank]

Oh dear, this thread is overflowing with computing brilliance.

Except not. You guys have no idea what you're even suggesting. Geekbench results and GHz mean nothing. The architecture is entirely different and you're comparing a tiny game like Infinity Blade to any (exponentially larger and more complex) console game and it just doesn't work like that.

To put things into perspective: GTA: San Andreas just came out. Even though they optimized the hell out of it to make it work on an iPhone, it still doesn't run quite as well as it does on PS2. The 360 can run a game like GTA V just fine and it's endlessly more complex and much, much larger. The A7 isn't even close to this gen of consoles let alone the last two.

Wishful thinking.

 

[cynics]

Oh dear, this thread is overflowing with computing brilliance.



Except not. You guys have no idea what you're even suggesting. Geekbench results and GHz mean nothing. The architecture is entirely different and you're comparing a tiny game like Infinity Blade to any (exponentially larger and more complex) console game and it just doesn't work like that.



To put things into perspective: GTA: San Andreas just came out. Even though they optimized the hell out of it to make it work on an iPhone, it still doesn't run quite as well as it does on PS2. The 360 can run a game like GTA V just fine and it's endlessly more complex and much, much larger. The A7 isn't even close to this gen of consoles let alone the last two.



Wishful thinking.

Exactly.

As far as games go the new gen consoles will beat the A7 constantly. This is literally apples and oranges.

 

[TallManNY]

it will still need the storage

both consoles have 500GB hard drives. the xbox one games have installs of 30GB and more to hold the data.

A7 can have similar specs to xbox 360 but until apple ups the storage to hundreds of GB you won't get games with the same production quality

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no storage

So what happens if Apple releases the next Apple TV at $200 price point? They use cooling techniques from Mac Pro so it is still passive and silent cooling, couple it with a slight larger form factor, and they use the extra $100 price to add 128 GB of storage. If they add a USB output then storage becomes a non-issue since USB fobs are cheap and plentiful (yes, I know, Apple won't make something that you stick a fob into, but it would work, right?) They probably still make a profit on that product at a $200 price. And they definitely make a profit out of increased iTunes sales (video and games).

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Exactly.

As far as games go the new gen consoles will beat the A7 constantly. This is literally apples and oranges.

Right. But the new gen consoles have to last for at least five years without an upgrade (if prior console history is indicative). The A7 is part of a 100+ million manufacturing run each year and so can be upgraded each year. The new consoles won't sell 100 million units during their entire lifecycle, right?

Also games don't just compete on production quality alone. The social aspect is important. If all your friends buy the cheap Apple TV, that might be the more fun gaming experience than Xbox or PS4. The hardcore gamer may spend more time with the Xbox, but they would own an Apple TV gaming rig if it cost only $200 and the games on it were really cheap.

 

[Bacong]

Apple TV isn't going to have a hard drive or much flash memory at all, so I don't see it as a viable console.

 

[GoSh4rks]

So what happens if Apple releases the next Apple TV at $200 price point? They use cooling techniques from Mac Pro so it is still passive and silent cooling, couple it with a slight larger form factor, and they use the extra $100 price to add 128 GB of storage. If they add a USB output then storage becomes a non-issue since USB fobs are cheap and plentiful (yes, I know, Apple won't make something that you stick a fob into, but it would work, right?) They probably still make a profit on that product at a $200 price. And they definitely make a profit out of increased iTunes sales (video and games).

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Right. But the new gen consoles have to last for at least five years without an upgrade (if prior console history is indicative). The A7 is part of a 100+ million manufacturing run each year and so can be upgraded each year. The new consoles won't sell 100 million units during their entire lifecycle, right?

Also games don't just compete on production quality alone. The social aspect is important. If all your friends buy the cheap Apple TV, that might be the more fun gaming experience than Xbox or PS4. The hardcore gamer may spend more time with the Xbox, but they would own an Apple TV gaming rig if it cost only $200 and the games on it were really cheap.

Xbox 360 or PS3 >>> your proposed Apple TV.

 

[Michael CM1]

More like galaxies apart

If you'll permit me to have a little fun and support the OP, not really galaxies apart. I saw an article that compared the iPhone 5s CPU's power to the CPU in a 2010 Mac Mini. Now I'll agree all day that the surrounding system of a gaming console is more complex with VRAM, tons of storage and whatnot, but the CPU still sits at the heart of it all. Go back just a couple of decades and I'm sure some kid with an NES would've murdered for iPhone power around 1990.

Meanwhile, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. Light from it left when humans were barely a thing and is just now reaching us. So no, those platforms are not galaxies apart.

I know you were just exaggerating, but I had to have a little fun with it.

 

[alent1234]

So what happens if Apple releases the next Apple TV at $200 price point? They use cooling techniques from Mac Pro so it is still passive and silent cooling, couple it with a slight larger form factor, and they use the extra $100 price to add 128 GB of storage. If they add a USB output then storage becomes a non-issue since USB fobs are cheap and plentiful (yes, I know, Apple won't make something that you stick a fob into, but it would work, right?) They probably still make a profit on that product at a $200 price. And they definitely make a profit out of increased iTunes sales (video and games).

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Right. But the new gen consoles have to last for at least five years without an upgrade (if prior console history is indicative). The A7 is part of a 100+ million manufacturing run each year and so can be upgraded each year. The new consoles won't sell 100 million units during their entire lifecycle, right?

Also games don't just compete on production quality alone. The social aspect is important. If all your friends buy the cheap Apple TV, that might be the more fun gaming experience than Xbox or PS4. The hardcore gamer may spend more time with the Xbox, but they would own an Apple TV gaming rig if it cost only $200 and the games on it were really cheap.

with the sales numbers of last gen consoles, on average almost every household in the USA owns at least one. and a lot own 2 or more consoles. its not just a "hardcore gamer" thing

games is what sell the console, always have. if apple is going to sell a $200 console then it will have to come with a controller for that much money and they need to have some exclusive games for it to get people to buy. and the games better be good and not the freemium IAP crap i see now

i was all hyped for ios gaming last year, but apple seems to be throwing their big chance away because they are making lots of money now

i have an xbox one with 3 games and these 3 will last me the rest of the year. by then some of the good ones coming out now will be on sale or pre-owned and i'll buy them for less than $60

there is some good stuff in the app store but too much IAP freemium junk and the fact that entry level iphones and ipads are only 16GB is keeping the game sizes small

 

[Jimmy James]

I would like to know the comparison between the upcoming iWatch and the ecu in my car.

 

[TallManNY]

with the sales numbers of last gen consoles, on average almost every household in the USA owns at least one. and a lot own 2 or more consoles. its not just a "hardcore gamer" thing

games is what sell the console, always have. if apple is going to sell a $200 console then it will have to come with a controller for that much money and they need to have some exclusive games for it to get people to buy. and the games better be good and not the freemium IAP crap i see now

i was all hyped for ios gaming last year, but apple seems to be throwing their big chance away because they are making lots of money now

i have an xbox one with 3 games and these 3 will last me the rest of the year. by then some of the good ones coming out now will be on sale or pre-owned and i'll buy them for less than $60

there is some good stuff in the app store but too much IAP freemium junk and the fact that entry level iphones and ipads are only 16GB is keeping the game sizes small

The last generation lasted 7 years, I believe. So I suspect that lots of households bought two consoles after one broke. And yes households have them. I've got an Xbox 360. But I haven't gamed on it in well over a year. I use it these days just to occasionally play a DVD. I bet there are consoles that haven't been used for much longer than that.
Anyway, it doesn't really look like Apple is going to target the gaming community with any vigor. But don't count out the amount of improvements that the chip is going to see over the next couple of years. And I don't think Apple TV will need to sell itself on exclusive games as its main focus will still be video consumption. It already does that well and I bet Apple will make it continue to do video consumption even better. The gaming might be an add on for awhile.

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If you'll permit me to have a little fun and support the OP, not really galaxies apart. I saw an article that compared the iPhone 5s CPU's power to the CPU in a 2010 Mac Mini. Now I'll agree all day that the surrounding system of a gaming console is more complex with VRAM, tons of storage and whatnot, but the CPU still sits at the heart of it all. Go back just a couple of decades and I'm sure some kid with an NES would've murdered for iPhone power around 1990.

Meanwhile, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. Light from it left when humans were barely a thing and is just now reaching us. So no, those platforms are not galaxies apart.

I know you were just exaggerating, but I had to have a little fun with it.

Thanks for the support.

I wonder my this thread (which I started in Sept 2013) got traffic again all of a sudden.

So perhaps if the A7 chip is dropped into an Apple TV form factor (i.e., juiced up to take advantage of the always on power) it might even beat a 2010 Max Mini if the 5s form was comparable.

By the way, I started playing Battle of Westnoth on my tablet this week. It is an old game ported to iOS. It is really good. Just another example of how little graphic power is needed for a good game.

 

[Curun]

Apple TV isn't going to have a hard drive or much flash memory at all, so I don't see it as a viable console.

It does currently have 8GB of flash memory, and can easily have 16-128GB options added if Apple so chooses. Which is plenty of underdog/mobile gaming.

*IF* and thats a huge IF, Apple does gaming console the AppleTV. It will be to do what the Wii did to the XBox. The low cost, entry level, more family oriented mobile game crossover target.

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So what happens if Apple releases the next Apple TV at $200 price point? They use cooling techniques from Mac Pro so it is still passive and silent cooling, couple it with a slight larger form factor, and they use the extra $100 price to add 128 GB of storage. If they add a USB output then storage becomes a non-issue since USB fobs are cheap and plentiful (yes, I know, Apple won't make something that you stick a fob into, but it would work, right?) They probably still make a profit on that product at a $200 price. And they definitely make a profit out of increased iTunes sales (video and games).

MacPro has a fan. As does the new AirportExpress. That is *not* passive cooling.