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About not having a filesystem...
- Thread starter anjinha
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I do a lot of computer support, mostly with people who do not care for technology. But they need to store their files somewhere. On networks I manage, I simply tell everyone to save everything in Documents folder (redirected to server for backups), and so far, nobody had a problem with understanding how it's done.
People may not be interested, but they are not confused by it. I started supporting PC users in 1995. Back in dark DOS and Windows 95 days, yes, that may be true. But now, it's much easier and accessible for anyone.
(Some) people are definitely confused by filesystems, I have to deal with people like that daily.
Yes, people understand an instruction like save everything to Documents, but they still don't really get what is going on. I see loads of documents folders with a huge list of files, photos etc with no management. People often lose files because they have no organisation and don't know how to search.
That's why a lot of people get on well with the iOS system where the files that are relevant to each app are listed there. Most people only ever access files with one app anyway. Give them a proper file system and many will just end up in a mess.
Personally, I would love a file management App (I use Goodreader as something similar), and I think that something will very likely come with iOS5, but for the average iOS user it really isn't a big deal. You can already email from the Camera Roll, which is probably the most common use for transferring files between Apps.
It's amazing what confuses people when they aren't interested in something. Often it is almost a point of principle (I don't like this, so I'm not going to learn how it works). People like their iOS devices because they aren't computers with all the confusion that comes with them. A file system would be extremely useful to many people (myself included), but is irrelevant to most and would be a problem if it was forced on them.
In my experience, Apple are pretty good at finding solutions that give people what they are after without it being forced on those who don't. Hopefully they will manage that with this.
Are you researching for an article, Soph?
Hehe, I'm not, I'm not doing much writing anymore. But I'm working for a company that handles support for Mac and iOS developers and it opened my eyes to how some people struggle with things techy people view as simple.
The filesystem doesn't just mean you can see your docs outside an easy to read list. I think some users are afraid of the filesystem as if it was just a dark hole that you're supposed to get lost in. My issue with the iPad is that opening up a document, saving it, being able to access it from any other app that could handle that document is not super easy. There have been many apps developed, both free and fee based, that have given me enough work around to be quite pleased. However, if I am in Safari and I want to attach a document right now from my iPad to this very post how can I do that?
Now, on the other hand. I've gotten along well without a filesystem on my iPad for a year to the day. While I still believe in and know that I would not be sad to see some sort of filesystem on the iPad, I have found some work arounds that are acceptable to me. One thing I do miss now that I have it on my Droid is the option to attach something to an e-mail that I have already begun and attach documents to forum posts not unlike this one.
Bottom line is out of everyone who said things like no filesystem no buy, they bought. Of all who said it was impossible to consider a device that didn't have a filesystem useable in their day to day lives were, for the most part, wrong. I'd say the number of people who are truly incapable of accepting the iPad as anything more than a toy because of the lack of the filesystem are likely never going to change their ways. To each is own. I miss it to an extent but somehow I'm doing ok without it.
Now, on the other hand. I've gotten along well without a filesystem on my iPad for a year to the day. While I still believe in and know that I would not be sad to see some sort of filesystem on the iPad, I have found some work arounds that are acceptable to me. One thing I do miss now that I have it on my Droid is the option to attach something to an e-mail that I have already begun and attach documents to forum posts not unlike this one.
Bottom line is out of everyone who said things like no filesystem no buy, they bought. Of all who said it was impossible to consider a device that didn't have a filesystem useable in their day to day lives were, for the most part, wrong. I'd say the number of people who are truly incapable of accepting the iPad as anything more than a toy because of the lack of the filesystem are likely never going to change their ways. To each is own. I miss it to an extent but somehow I'm doing ok without it.
And sometimes it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I once volunteered to do a website for a friend, and to determine what he wanted the website to look like, I fired up Powerpoint, and started getting boxes and text laid out. The first thing I did was put down some text and made it larger, and he was like "Whoa, that's amazing! I could never learn how to do something like that!"
Yes, seriously. He believed that he could never learn how to increase the text size in Powerpoint. So of course, he never did.
There are a lot of people who still think computers have to be complicated and difficult and requiring lots of training and intelligence to understand and use.
And even working in IT, I see a lot of my coworkers who don't create folders to organize documents--they just throw all of their files on the Desktop. The times I've asked them about it, the general response has been "Oh, I don't understand how folders work and I can never find anything anyway, so I don't bother. This works for me."
The fact that you are able and willing to post on an online forum and even know the term "file system" means that you are already in the top 25% (if not 10%?) of people in terms of basic computer skills and knowledge.
This is one of my biggest requests. I often bring files to a print center, and I have to put one copy on my iPad and one copy on a tumb drive. I use the iPad version to be able to show the person taking the order what I'm talking about, and the thumb drive version to let them access the files for printing. There has been more than one occasion when a typo, or something similar, was discovered while I was looking at the file with the clerk. I could have easily corrected it on my iPad, but because there was no way for me to transfer the corrected version to the thumb drive, I instead had to go back to my computer, make the changes, then bring the thumb drive back. Quite frustrating...
IMO, the current setup is far more confusing than a basic files system would be. Multiple apps havning the potential for multiple versions of a basic word document is cumbersome and confusing.
As witness by the disbelief most Windows people have for those who buy Macs, as well as the continual "has Apple abandoed the professional market", many people haven't opened their eyes to the struggles off the common man.
Most iDevice and Mac owners care not one whit about HOW things function below the surface. Jobs knew this decades ago. The closed sandbox approach of iPad applications has its benefits, but also has a cost. I suspect there will be some sort of iDisk/DropBox clearinghouse in the iOS 5. I doubt there will ever be a completely open file system (it's so anti-Jobsian).
MS Office doesn't even open docx files without a file converter plug in, so it's not the iPad's fault. Why is he saving them as docx and not doc ?
docx has been the native file format of Microsoft Word since Office 2007. Older versions, yes, require a plug-in, but Office 2007 and up require a plug-in to handle doc files, instead.
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I really don't think this has to do with anyone "thinking different". When I have to email a document back and forth between apps on the same device, there's a problem.
Why is it that when I want to download a PDF, I have to use one app to DL it, then another to read it and annotate it, then email it to myself to get it into another app to give it different annotations, then email it back to myself to get it into another app to add it to my favorite PDF library, then open it in another app to re-upload it. Confused yet? I am.
It's fine that we use different apps for different purposes, but this shifting of documents around to different apps is anything but simple. It's dizzying and unnecessarily complex.
Even if Jobs hates file systems that consumers can access, this is fine. Apple can make it seem like the docs reside in the individual apps, I really don't care. But, I would love to be able to open an app up and all my documents are already in there. And if I modify a document, it's modified system-wide, not just within the confines of the app.
I really don't think this has to do with anyone "thinking different". When I have to email a document back and forth between apps on the same device, there's a problem.
Why is it that when I want to download a PDF, I have to use one app to DL it, then another to read it and annotate it, then email it to myself to get it into another app to give it different annotations, then email it back to myself to get it into another app to add it to my favorite PDF library, then open it in another app to re-upload it. Confused yet? I am.
It's fine that we use different apps for different purposes, but this shifting of documents around to different apps is anything but simple. It's dizzying and unnecessarily complex.
Even if Jobs hates file systems that consumers can access, this is fine. Apple can make it seem like the docs reside in the individual apps, I really don't care. But, I would love to be able to open an app up and all my documents are already in there. And if I modify a document, it's modified system-wide, not just within the confines of the app.
That is true, and is a reason why a file management app would be useful for many people (myself included).
However, the point I was making is that it is not an issue for the average iOS user. Most people don't use any file with more than one App.
As I said, I think having a local storage space managed by iOS that was available to any app by API would be the best of both worlds. Kind of like how now various apps connect to Dropbox and manipulate files there--this would be the sort of thing where an app can connect to the Photos storage, or the Documents storage, or the Music storage, and be able to manage the various artifacts.
It would be really sweet if this was actually handled through iDisk and MobileMe, so you could also do cool things while on other computers.
But basically, for the average user, they would just have pretty much what already exists in Pages: a set of documents they can open, edit, view, and do stuff with. But for us power users (because let's be honest, everyone on this forum is a power user), we could do some more fancy stuff with actual file/folder manipulation and that sort of thing.
Also, if this is all by iDisk, then other apps can piggyback with their own storages. Instead of keeping a save file on a device, you could keep it on the iDisk itself, so that it automatically propagates to other devices, so no matter whether on the iPhone or iPad or even across multiple iPhones and iPads, you always keep the same saved game.
The pain in this from Apple's perspective is going to be handling the actual syncing and that sort of thing without also killing battery life.
It would be really sweet if this was actually handled through iDisk and MobileMe, so you could also do cool things while on other computers.
But basically, for the average user, they would just have pretty much what already exists in Pages: a set of documents they can open, edit, view, and do stuff with. But for us power users (because let's be honest, everyone on this forum is a power user), we could do some more fancy stuff with actual file/folder manipulation and that sort of thing.
Also, if this is all by iDisk, then other apps can piggyback with their own storages. Instead of keeping a save file on a device, you could keep it on the iDisk itself, so that it automatically propagates to other devices, so no matter whether on the iPhone or iPad or even across multiple iPhones and iPads, you always keep the same saved game.
The pain in this from Apple's perspective is going to be handling the actual syncing and that sort of thing without also killing battery life.
a filesystem? heck, i wouldn't even miss files. lets put everything into a giant database and access them via record numbers.
Comment: It took years for me to teach my wife to actually put (most) documents into different directories, instead of hundreds of them all in a flat file layout. BUT I had to create those directories for her.
Conclusion: if commonly used file folders already exist, then even casual users are willing to sort files by date or type.
It'd be great if files could sort (or find) themselves. One magic that's needed, of course, is automatic and extensive meta data. A file should automatically have a location, time, and even indexed keywords.
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One of the things I like about Android is its Intents system, where new file finders can be installed.
For instance, when you want to open a picture in an Android app, it tells the OS that's what it wants to do.
You can then choose from several such pickers, or you most likely have a default one that knows to look at all picture storage locations on the phone... and also off the phone such as in your Flickr account.
Conclusion: if commonly used file folders already exist, then even casual users are willing to sort files by date or type.
It'd be great if files could sort (or find) themselves. One magic that's needed, of course, is automatic and extensive meta data. A file should automatically have a location, time, and even indexed keywords.
--
One of the things I like about Android is its Intents system, where new file finders can be installed.
For instance, when you want to open a picture in an Android app, it tells the OS that's what it wants to do.
You can then choose from several such pickers, or you most likely have a default one that knows to look at all picture storage locations on the phone... and also off the phone such as in your Flickr account.
Yep, I don't know why I was under the impression that it was a Works file. I dislike the 'new' ribbon/task bar or whatever they call it, so I still insist on using the 2003 Edition. (Is there a 'classic' setting like WinXP and the one that begins with a 'V').
Nope.
For once, Microsoft is actually doing the right thing by not allowing people to regress, and forcing them to instead use a superior interface. The Ribbon is far, far superior to the old byzantine menu system wherein 90% of the most requested features had existed in the program for years, but no one knew about them because it required going through three sublayers of menus when the moon was full.
Now, it's there and obvious and easy.
Seriously. I can't think of a single thing I used to do in Word, Excel, or Powerpoint that isn't faster and easier now.
Today I had to explain someone what the Finder is. More and more I agree with Apple making the iPad the way it is.
If you're creating content then you need a file system, simple as that. If you're not creating content then you don't need one but will probably never even notice that it's there. So to say that it would confuse technophobes is untrue I think.
What about creating content makes it mandatory to have a filesystem? I've been doing some artwork in ArtRage. Writing in IA Writer. Doing spreadsheets in Numbers. Is that not content?
I know from experience how a filesystem confuses some people. All you guys are saying is "it's not confusing because *I* don't think it's confusing".
Just because you have a filesystem it doesn't have to look or work like Windows Explorer or the Finder. It could just as simply be represented graphically in iOS. I think even the most committed technophobe would understand easily if it was represented analogously to an office filing cabinet. I don't think that Apple are going to purposefully hamstring their devices by pandering to the lowest common denominator who can't/won't understand very simple concepts.