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About to purchase G5, how reliable are they?
- Thread starter n8mac
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as money is a big issue here i would suggest the dual processor 2.3 as its well known the most reliable of all , dont ask why ,as i have no clue why , but it still will score 1966 @geekbench according every mac.com which is still a lot more then your current 502 score of you G4 867 (dont sell the G4 its always handy to have a backup computer ) and just ~400points behind my intel core duo iMac ,
i find the original radeon 9600 inside is quiet a good gpu with 128mb ram , i have in my eMacs the radeon 9600 with 64mb which handles up to 480p streamed videos very well and even some 720p on the single core G4 1.42
..and you can always upgrade as soon as you got funds again just remember its a PCI-X , but you still got a AGP x8 slot there ,
same for the ram most get sold with around 2Gb but the dual processor 2.3 model can take 8gb which is a lot , just remember to buy them in pairs and the 1966 score @geekbench is in original spec so can be improved with more ram , better gpu,a faster 10000rpm drive or even a ssd and dont push it away because of funds ,as you dont need to buy everything in one go , nobody is forcing you
it is in my opinion part of the fun ,not to buy something that has top speed right out the box , i even find that boring , the fun is to have the option to upgrade and see a performance boost after each upgrade and get the satisfaction that the money you did spend on a upgrade was worth it
i find the original radeon 9600 inside is quiet a good gpu with 128mb ram , i have in my eMacs the radeon 9600 with 64mb which handles up to 480p streamed videos very well and even some 720p on the single core G4 1.42
..and you can always upgrade as soon as you got funds again just remember its a PCI-X , but you still got a AGP x8 slot there ,
same for the ram most get sold with around 2Gb but the dual processor 2.3 model can take 8gb which is a lot , just remember to buy them in pairs and the 1966 score @geekbench is in original spec so can be improved with more ram , better gpu,a faster 10000rpm drive or even a ssd and dont push it away because of funds ,as you dont need to buy everything in one go , nobody is forcing you
it is in my opinion part of the fun ,not to buy something that has top speed right out the box , i even find that boring , the fun is to have the option to upgrade and see a performance boost after each upgrade and get the satisfaction that the money you did spend on a upgrade was worth it
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Your obviously just assuming that or were given false info. Every dual core/cpu Mac I have ever run 10.4+ on pretty much forces multithreading in everything. I have even done extensive testing on this when I had 2 MDD's and used chud to disable one CPU or the L3 to help see the true gains and losses with and without certain hardware active. Regardless of how any of the apps were written they all performed at least 40% faster with the 2nd CPU.
Also, far too many people use the x86 frame of mind when thinking about bus and RAM speed on PowerPC Macs and make blind assumptions that it will be a heavy burden on things. PowerPC is a totally different architecture and is not near as reliant on bus speed as the x86 world. x86 architectures have as many as 14-20 steps in a process pipeline vs. 7 on G4 arch. When each instruction has to be bounced around the board up to 20 times you need a screaming bus. When it only bounces around 7 times you can get by with a much slower bus. Very simple.
I guess you got all this multithread misinformation from running single CPU iMac G3's and your single QS huh?
It's a little comical that a guy that need so much help with something like picking a G5 and how reliable they are is somehow expert enough about multithreading to just flat out say info is wrong. You obviously don't even understand the basics of the very architecture you're using in the first place so how can you possibly claim knowledge about something that goes much deeper?
Your argument would be valid for the G4, but doesn't really hold much water considering that G5s were the PowerPC equivalent to a Pentium 4 - they have 16 stage integer pipelines and can go as many as 25 stages depending on the instruction.
OTOH, they could hold twice as many simultaneous instructions as a P4 could.
OTOH, they could hold twice as many simultaneous instructions as a P4 could.
The G5 also had a 800MHz-1.1GHz bus.. the exact point I was trying to make. Many stages = the need for a fast bus. My Sawtooth with a 7448 1.8GHz G4 with 7 stages on the logic board gets by fine with the 100MHz bus.
Wow, lots of miscellaneous comments, but to answer your questions directly, I've been maintaining several powermac G4s and G5s in a lab and here are my observations:
I agree the G4's don't seem to die. If I had a choice, I'd have at least one maxed out G4. You can still get processor upgrades for the G4 on e-bay and possibly some on-line sellers. I've upgraded the processor in 2 Cubes and they have both worked very well.
As for your questions:
1. Reliability: One of the early posters gave the repair statistics for various G5 models, and I would concur with the same experience. Our early 2x2GHz flaked out for a long time and finally stopped working. Several 2x2.7GHz liquid cooled leaked. Several G5s would/will power themselves up from being off for no apparent reason. Also, watch out for video cards that are fan cooled because they are now old and the fans will die.
2. Fan noise: the G5 is louder. Partly because it has more fans and partly because it tends to ramp them up when ever there is more than minimal load on the CPU. At full blast (which does happen) you think you'd have a room fan on high - that's how loud they can get. If you are doing a lot of cpu intensive stuff or even opening and closing things often you'll hear the fans cycle up and down often. For me, it's annoying.
For me, except for a few features such as stacks, quick look, and time machine, I consider 10.4 a superior operating system as compared to 10.5. You won't notice it on a G5, but if you put 10.5 on a G4 it will run slower, and may cause other problems.
So, if you are considering a G5 vs. maintaining/upgrading a G4, I'd seriously look at upgrading your G4. In particular max out your RAM, and look for a dual processor upgrade. For some applications your single 867 MHz CPU is inferior to a dual 500 MHz cpu. Here are some processor upgrades at OWC:
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?sort=pop&model=156&type=Processor
Once upgraded, you could run 10.5 if you really wanted to.
Long time PPC user here on a budget looking to retire my G4 and buy a G5 on ebay. I am noticing a bit of a slow down on my trusty powermac G4.
Specs...
PowerMac G4 867 single
1.25gb ram
10.4.11/classic
2 fx cards for two old monitors
I was planning on running this thing until it died but it just won't dieno longer supporting Tiger is getting to me. Plus the boot drive has only 10GB free so I can't really use iMovie anymore. I did everything I know to keep it up to speed; permissions, check to see if I'm paging (I rarely do), run scripts, and even opened it and cleaned out all the dust and cat hair. While I wouldn't call it a dog, I do think it's age is showing. I just ran geekbench and got a 502.
n8
I agree the G4's don't seem to die. If I had a choice, I'd have at least one maxed out G4. You can still get processor upgrades for the G4 on e-bay and possibly some on-line sellers. I've upgraded the processor in 2 Cubes and they have both worked very well.
As for your questions:
1. Reliability: One of the early posters gave the repair statistics for various G5 models, and I would concur with the same experience. Our early 2x2GHz flaked out for a long time and finally stopped working. Several 2x2.7GHz liquid cooled leaked. Several G5s would/will power themselves up from being off for no apparent reason. Also, watch out for video cards that are fan cooled because they are now old and the fans will die.
2. Fan noise: the G5 is louder. Partly because it has more fans and partly because it tends to ramp them up when ever there is more than minimal load on the CPU. At full blast (which does happen) you think you'd have a room fan on high - that's how loud they can get. If you are doing a lot of cpu intensive stuff or even opening and closing things often you'll hear the fans cycle up and down often. For me, it's annoying.
For me, except for a few features such as stacks, quick look, and time machine, I consider 10.4 a superior operating system as compared to 10.5. You won't notice it on a G5, but if you put 10.5 on a G4 it will run slower, and may cause other problems.
So, if you are considering a G5 vs. maintaining/upgrading a G4, I'd seriously look at upgrading your G4. In particular max out your RAM, and look for a dual processor upgrade. For some applications your single 867 MHz CPU is inferior to a dual 500 MHz cpu. Here are some processor upgrades at OWC:
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?sort=pop&model=156&type=Processor
Once upgraded, you could run 10.5 if you really wanted to.
We still have a 2004 20" Power G5 iMac that is my wife's primary home computer. It's been dead reliable for all the years we've owned it, and was my primary iTunes Library machine until just a few months ago. It's still used daily for light-duty stuff: web browsing, email, word-processing, and as a Citrix client so my wife can connect to her School's systems (she's an administrator at a High School). It works fine for all that sort of stuff.
If you can find a good clean machine at a good price, and your computing needs aren't excessive, it might make a lot of sense.
If you can find a good clean machine at a good price, and your computing needs aren't excessive, it might make a lot of sense.
Two words:
Power consumption.
A powered up PowerMac G5 sittin doing absolutely nothing but idling 24/7 will consume 105+kWhs a month. That's roughly $10/mo, assuming the machine is up and not sleeping whilst doing absolutely nothing. Plus however much it costs during the summer to cool the tremendous amount of heat these things can put out.
New Intel Macs, particularly the Mini are more than an order of magnitude more power efficient, both at idle and at load. A Mac Mini pushed completely balls to the wall still consumes less than two-thirds the electricity of a dual G5 sitting at idle.
Depending on how much load you put on your machines (lots of video encoding, distributed computing screensaver, always on, etc), the cost benefit of getting a G5 over Mac Mini might not amount to much savings at all, if any.
Power consumption.
A powered up PowerMac G5 sittin doing absolutely nothing but idling 24/7 will consume 105+kWhs a month. That's roughly $10/mo, assuming the machine is up and not sleeping whilst doing absolutely nothing. Plus however much it costs during the summer to cool the tremendous amount of heat these things can put out.
New Intel Macs, particularly the Mini are more than an order of magnitude more power efficient, both at idle and at load. A Mac Mini pushed completely balls to the wall still consumes less than two-thirds the electricity of a dual G5 sitting at idle.
Depending on how much load you put on your machines (lots of video encoding, distributed computing screensaver, always on, etc), the cost benefit of getting a G5 over Mac Mini might not amount to much savings at all, if any.
If you get a G5 really cheap/free, nah not really. At $10 a month I'd have to use this machine for about 3 years before I'd break even against buying a Mac Mini -and since I'm using an older ADC monitor I'd have to buy a $100 adaptor too XD - another year!
Then again, I don't expect the G5 to last that long XD
Then again, I don't expect the G5 to last that long XD
i never really bothered about power consumption when choosing a computer ,
for me other things had been far more important , like expandability , and a mini G4 is slow compared to a G5
and for the price of a early intel mini 1.5/ 1.66 /1.83 core duo with the poxy onboard intel gma 950 , a g5 is a lot cheaper most times , and if Power consumption is important he could buy a MSI wind netbook and hackintosh it as its easy ,which offers the same performance really and is using even less power , so Power consumption is not worth to mention really
and as the OP stated his computing needs are mainly basic , i cant see the point for him buying something like a core 2 duo mini which offers a better gpu and is faster but cost double what a G5 cost,, remember he is on a budget so suggesting to buy a mini which cost most times around £300-400 (the 1.83 dual cores) and even £400+ for the core 2 duo's if in working condition when he can get a G5 for £200 -300 must be a joke considering the upgrade possibilities of the G5 PowerMac, the mini would only make some sense if he is desperate for a Mac that can run snow leopard , but then a iMac core duo like mine in the signature would cost him the same as a Mini 1.83 core duo , but he gets a display with the iMac
for me other things had been far more important , like expandability , and a mini G4 is slow compared to a G5
and for the price of a early intel mini 1.5/ 1.66 /1.83 core duo with the poxy onboard intel gma 950 , a g5 is a lot cheaper most times , and if Power consumption is important he could buy a MSI wind netbook and hackintosh it as its easy ,which offers the same performance really and is using even less power , so Power consumption is not worth to mention really
and as the OP stated his computing needs are mainly basic , i cant see the point for him buying something like a core 2 duo mini which offers a better gpu and is faster but cost double what a G5 cost,, remember he is on a budget so suggesting to buy a mini which cost most times around £300-400 (the 1.83 dual cores) and even £400+ for the core 2 duo's if in working condition when he can get a G5 for £200 -300 must be a joke considering the upgrade possibilities of the G5 PowerMac, the mini would only make some sense if he is desperate for a Mac that can run snow leopard , but then a iMac core duo like mine in the signature would cost him the same as a Mini 1.83 core duo , but he gets a display with the iMac
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We're not talking about netbooks. We're talking about G5s and their costs.
Power consumption as a part of total cost of ownership should be considered if cost is a primary concern. As the OP himself admits, he's frugal.
There isn't an analogy more apt than buying an old, cheap gas guzzler. You think you're making out okay, but over the long run, the "cheap" option could be more expensive.
I was being conservative with my estimates - if you live in an electricity-expensive part of the US, price per kWh could be 50-60% more than the 9c I used in my example. If you do anything other than letting he G5 sit idle, you'll consume electricity even more inefficiently. Depending on usage, you could easily hit $200-$250 as the cost of running a dual G5 for a year. A Mini doing the same tasks won't even hit $50. Over two years, the cost will be $300-400 more over a Mini. In three years, $450-$600. There's not cost advantage there anymore. Not only that, in those three years, you'll have been running on an increasingly unsupported platform.
If cost isn't your game, then go to town. But then don't pretend like price is your primary concern when it isn't. I have two unused G5 Power Mac towers that I bought used for mod projects just because I like the case design.
As for expandability, what expandability, specifically? Other than drives, what is a home user going to be doing with any of the expansion slots?
Power consumption as a part of total cost of ownership should be considered if cost is a primary concern. As the OP himself admits, he's frugal.
There isn't an analogy more apt than buying an old, cheap gas guzzler. You think you're making out okay, but over the long run, the "cheap" option could be more expensive.
I was being conservative with my estimates - if you live in an electricity-expensive part of the US, price per kWh could be 50-60% more than the 9c I used in my example. If you do anything other than letting he G5 sit idle, you'll consume electricity even more inefficiently. Depending on usage, you could easily hit $200-$250 as the cost of running a dual G5 for a year. A Mini doing the same tasks won't even hit $50. Over two years, the cost will be $300-400 more over a Mini. In three years, $450-$600. There's not cost advantage there anymore. Not only that, in those three years, you'll have been running on an increasingly unsupported platform.
If cost isn't your game, then go to town. But then don't pretend like price is your primary concern when it isn't. I have two unused G5 Power Mac towers that I bought used for mod projects just because I like the case design.
As for expandability, what expandability, specifically? Other than drives, what is a home user going to be doing with any of the expansion slots?
just for the additional internal hdd bays of 3rd parties you need a additional sata card
and what about changing the graphics card? on the G5 you got the option of fitting a ati radeon x800 xt mac edition with 256mb vram
..on a mini below £400 you stuck with core duo (i know you can make it a core 2 duo)but you definitely stuck with the intel GMA 950 onboard gpu with 64mb ram (actually able to use up to 80mb ram i heard ) if you insist of a working Mini that hasn't been used as a hockey puck and gone all yellow on top with etched in security marks and such unimportant things like all ports working
sure somehow i like the mini too , a cute little computer and with the external firewire drives on offer that can sit right under the mini it looks tidy on the desk , and i would possibly have bought a 1.83ghz core duo mini last year too , but the iMac in my signature was way cheaper, bought direct from a apple repair technician , in better condition and had all parts replaced under apple care , so was actually fully refurbished by apple a couple month earlier
but i will buy a mini G4 1.5 ghz again , just looking to find a pristine example for my dual boot Morph OS /Tiger project
and what about changing the graphics card? on the G5 you got the option of fitting a ati radeon x800 xt mac edition with 256mb vram
..on a mini below £400 you stuck with core duo (i know you can make it a core 2 duo)but you definitely stuck with the intel GMA 950 onboard gpu with 64mb ram (actually able to use up to 80mb ram i heard ) if you insist of a working Mini that hasn't been used as a hockey puck and gone all yellow on top with etched in security marks and such unimportant things like all ports working
sure somehow i like the mini too , a cute little computer and with the external firewire drives on offer that can sit right under the mini it looks tidy on the desk , and i would possibly have bought a 1.83ghz core duo mini last year too , but the iMac in my signature was way cheaper, bought direct from a apple repair technician , in better condition and had all parts replaced under apple care , so was actually fully refurbished by apple a couple month earlier
but i will buy a mini G4 1.5 ghz again , just looking to find a pristine example for my dual boot Morph OS /Tiger project
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