Absolutely ANNOYED by Stupid Water Sensor

[KidStallyn]

Link provided;

"according to tech specs from the manufacturer of the LSI sensors, 3M, days exposure at 95% humidity will change sensors slightly pink."

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...U5230GE3E02LECIE20KHO6_command=AbcPageHandler

So....after reading this.

"In general, 3MTM Water Contact Indicator Tape 5557 on ABS, Al, epoxy glass and PC substrates started to turn red around the edges between 45 seconds to 1 minute upon exposure to condensing steam.

The smaller die-cut pieces of WCIT 5557 (4 mm diameter) turned almost completely red after being exposed to condensing steam for 5 minutes."

Basically...if you have your phone, in your bathroom plugged into a speaker dock playing music while taking a HOT shower, you know the ones where the mirror steams up.....you're going to trip your sensor.....great.

And here's another question. Cell phones should be somewhat ruggedized. I'm an engineer and work in a production environment. Why aren't they conformal coating these boards anyways???

And to one of the posters up above. Yes....I do keep my phone in my front pocket most of the day wearing denim jeans. I dunno.....Maybe that's where it happened....I'm at a loss on this one, because I have NO idea, and i know that my phone has never been submerged in any amounts of water or liquid.

 

[Roessnakhan]

Where can I get those? Link?

I got mine off eBay.

 

[Konz]

These discs are designed to require physical contact with liquid water in order to be tripped. Humidity is not enough...

At least this guy is making a fool of himself so we don't have to do any of the work

I very much doubt you'll be able to find any such reports, though.

It was actually pretty easy to find on the manufacturers web site, but apparently your superior intellect wasn't able to direct you there.

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Every little helps.

We'll be sure to remember this when reading your future idiotic posts. And you're totally right, "every little helps!"

 

[cal6n]

Link provided;

"according to tech specs from the manufacturer of the LSI sensors, 3M, days exposure at 95% humidity will change sensors slightly pink."

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...U5230GE3E02LECIE20KHO6_command=AbcPageHandler

Thanks for that. It supports my earlier post, 100%. Here's the relevant section:

This test involved exposure to humidity far beyond normal levels, even by tropical standards. These sensors did not indicate water damage (red) until direct exposure to liquid water.

Any equipment showing red sensors has been in contact with liquid water. If people are being refused repairs when the sensors are merely light pink, then that's an entirely different issue. A light pink sensor has not been tripped.

 

[cal6n]

*snip*

Basically...if you have your phone, in your bathroom plugged into a speaker dock playing music while taking a HOT shower, you know the ones where the mirror steams up.....you're going to trip your sensor.....great.

*snip*

Er... no.

The tests were at 55° C (that's around 130° F for our colonial chums) and 95% relative humidity. A better analogy would be taking your phone into the steamiest sauna you can imagine. And even that isn't really steamy enough. Perhaps if you held it directly in front of the spout of a steaming kettle.

 

[Cinematographer]

We'll be sure to remember this when reading your future idiotic posts. And you're totally right, "every little helps!"

Hope you didn't put him on the ignore list. Cause you could most definitely learn something in post #29.

 

[Hutch1]

I like the manufactures shelf life of 18 months too.

 

[KidStallyn]

Thanks for that. It supports my earlier post, 100%. Here's the relevant section:

This test involved exposure to humidity far beyond normal levels, even by tropical standards. These sensors did not indicate water damage (red) until direct exposure to liquid water.

Any equipment showing red sensors has been in contact with liquid water. If people are being refused repairs when the sensors are merely light pink, then that's an entirely different issue. A light pink sensor has not been tripped.

To be honest...I don't know if it's a pinkish color or not.....the phone was not opened to determine. She merely shined a light down it and I could see that it wasn't pure white like the new phone she pulled out.

 

[kiranmk2]

All that test tells us is that the sensor doesn't trip in humid conditions when it's in isolation. When it's in a phone - what happens if a part close to the sensor condenses some air-borne water and bang - you've got actual water in the phone which trips the sensor?

 

[KidStallyn]

All that test tells us is that the sensor doesn't trip in humid conditions when it's in isolation. When it's in a phone - what happens if a part close to the sensor condenses some air-borne water and bang - you've got actual water in the phone which trips the sensor?

And here's the thing.....The sensor that tripped in mine is the one that is directly centered below the dock connector. Cold metal on the doc connector.....High Humidity in the air, condensation could potentially form and drop on the strip. Although, a single drop to me doesn't at all qualify as "significant amounts of water" to trip the sensor as the Apple Genius told me.

 

[LoganT]

Do you think maybe it could of been the compressed air? I know in those compressed air containers if you squeeze them hard enough or hold the can upside down, a liquid will come out.

 

[soLoredd]

Do you think maybe it could of been the compressed air? I know in those compressed air containers if you squeeze them hard enough or hold the can upside down, a liquid will come out.

That was my initial thought as well, surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. You said it was the sensor where the dock connector was, which is where you said she blew it with air? Uh, hello? McFly?

I would take it to another store or to another 'genius'. There's no reason why one person's word has to be the authority. If they still refuse ask them what are people supposed to do when it comes to perspiration or humid climates. That said, from the test that was linked to previously, it looks like it takes a massive amount of heat and humidity to even slightly change those sensors. 130F w/ 95% RH?

 

[nastebu]

Thanks for that. It supports my earlier post, 100%. Here's the relevant section:

This test involved exposure to humidity far beyond normal levels, even by tropical standards. These sensors did not indicate water damage (red) until direct exposure to liquid water.

Any equipment showing red sensors has been in contact with liquid water. If people are being refused repairs when the sensors are merely light pink, then that's an entirely different issue. A light pink sensor has not been tripped.

So I'm left wondering what people protesting would have Apple do? Obviously, they need to have some way of showing whether the phone has been dipped in water--which I don't think anyone is going to argue shouldn't void the warranty. And according to this evidence, their test strip is designed to *not* trip in pretty extreme humidity circumstances. So what would you change?

Are you seriously saying that Apple should just ignore their quite legitimately designed test strip and take everyone's word for it? I don't think I want to have to pay the higher prices that would make necessary.

OP, it sucks. But sometimes luck is bad. What can you do?

 

[netdog]

Well, if the red dot works as advertized, then there are sure a lot of people dropping their iPhones in the toilet and then lying about it.

My red dots tripped and my phone never once got wet.

 

[mrbrown]

This test involved exposure to humidity far beyond normal levels, even by tropical standards. These sensors did not indicate water damage (red) until direct exposure to liquid water.

That's really great and all, but I'm sure that was done in a controlled environment, which doesn't exist in nature, where condensation was not possible.

Again, have you ever lived anywhere where water forms on eye glasses when you walk out from an air conditioned environment into the very humid (>75%) environment? Ever lived anywhere where water forms of the floor if the air conditioner goes out and causes your wooden floor to buckle (another issue I experienced during the hurricanes of years past)?

The fact is that in the tests you are pointing to, the sensor stays in one environment. In real life, people move their phones in and out of different environments. Condensation happens, and judging by the fact that it takes 1 drop to cause the entire sensor to turn red, it's pretty obvious a small amount of condensation produced in a humid environment would trip the sensor.

I have, and I can damn well sure tell you that its enough water to set off a humidity sensor. I know by experience - I sure as hell didn't drop my HP laptop in a toilet. You lose, good day sir.

 

[Cask]

My old iPhone 3G's sensor were also tripped after 3 weeks I spent in Puerto Vallarta on Summer 2008, when that was new. It was never even close to the pool or any water, and it just tripped. Luckily never had any problems with it and sold it it a few months ago to get my new 3GS, but those sensor can trip because of humidity.

 

[KidStallyn]

I may take it back to Apple one more time. I hadn't even thought about the compressed air she used to clean out the dock connector area. I would love to see some tests of how these indicators perform when sprayed directly with compressed air.

 

[ProfDrSilver]

It is a matter of luck.... no matter how you look at it. This strips are specifically designed to make sure the manufacturer doesn't loose too much money from 'accidents' such as water spills or worse...

No matter how careful you are....Condensation in these kind of cases is called 'Bad Luck'.... It just happens

 

[whooleytoo]

Do you think maybe it could of been the compressed air? I know in those compressed air containers if you squeeze them hard enough or hold the can upside down, a liquid will come out.

That would make sense. As air is compressed, doesn't it increase its capacity to hold water vapour? Which then would condense as it expands.

Moral of story: perhaps you shouldn't let anyone blow compressed air into that slot!

 

[firewood]

Apple should have put the sensor strip where water vapor could not easily enter and condense on nearby cold metal or plastic parts. Unfortunately, there's no battery door to keep out fresh air and spit.

I can come in from outside on a cold Winter day, start the shower water running, and my not-yet-warmed-up eyeglasses are nearly instantly wet with heavy fog. Who knows what's happening near the visible metal connectors on my iPhone?

And on really really hot days, there's the problem of sweaty wet clothes after even just walking the dog.

Problems that other cell phone manufacturers have dealt with.

 

[AbSoluTc]

What "evidence" would you accept? A contiguous video diary of the entire lifetime of the iPhone? "Real" problems are found and acknowledged, through the collation of anecdotal error reports like these.

The big problem with the tripping sensor is the user isn't given any notification of when it trips. If a user pulls their iPhone out of their pocket and there's a message on the screen saying the phone has been exposed to water, then they know exactly when/where the iPhone was when the supposed damage took place. If they only find out about the tripped sensor when they go to the Apple Store, they are in no position to deny the damage.

I don't know of ANY mobile that has a user notification for tripped water sensors. Most are on batteries and near the battery compartment. They are white and turn pink/red when exposed. So why should apple have them?

 

[Hutch1]

it's not really difficult to develop a reasonable policy even using their existing sensors. There are actually three sensors

First check the two external sensors if both are white honour warranty, if either is tripped (fully red not pink) examine the internal sensor. take the cover off the phone if internal sensor is white honour warranty, if it too is red then phone has most likely seen significant water. If the problem is electronic phone can not be replaced, if the problem is mechanical such as crack warranty should be honoured.

The two sensors exposed to the open environment should only be used to speed the process and no used to make the final decision on validity of the warranty.

 

[alFR]

Problems that other cell phone manufacturers have dealt with.

Actually, they haven't: back when I had a Nokia 6310i, I took it for a firmware upgrade and they told me they could do it, but if it bricked during the upgrade I'd have to pay for the repair as it had evidence of water damage, i.e. tripped internal moisture sensor. It'd never been in water, but had been in my jersey pocket a few times when I was out biking so I assume condensation from sweat had got to it. I started putting my phone in a plastic bag when exercising after that. So, this isn't exactly a new problem or one unique to the iPhone.

 

[fishmoose]

My dock connector sensor has been tripped to. Never been in water contact, I once forgot my iPhone in my bathroom while taking a shower don't know if that tripped it. I do take warm and long showers. My warranty is up anyway so it dosent matter really.

 

[whooleytoo]

I don't know of ANY mobile that has a user notification for tripped water sensors. Most are on batteries and near the battery compartment. They are white and turn pink/red when exposed. So why should apple have them?

Because it's a good idea.

Given that Apple may void the warranty or paid Applecare cover based on these sensors tripping; it would be nice if the user was informed when this happened so they would be in a position to confirm/deny its validity.

Bear in mind, nothing is 100% reliable. Some of these sensors will show incorrect results (false positives & false negatives); an interesting question is how many?